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Respec from Enh>Resto - Opinions pleaseFollow

#1 Apr 10 2008 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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HI all. Just wanted to get some basic opinions ( I know a lot depends on gear and stat bonuses, but just looking for very broad info - nothing too in depth like algebraic analysis please, as I play more for fun than anything).

Anyways I've been running through outlands (Gank Central) as Enhance and though I loved the spec in Azor and still dig it now, I'm starting to think about end game. I love the thought of a fightin' healer, but unsure if I should have more fight or more heal and what the trade-offs are.

Issues I'm having (though not too bad atm):
Lots of Ganks (though expected in OL - but I can handle a 1 on 1 of same level about half the time, except for rogues, where I can never get out of stunlock).
Relatively useless enhance spec'd items (except for the Totemic Rage chestpiece).
Poor choice of decent one handers for dual wielding (as the best seem to usually be main hand, but there are some nice two-handers about).
Spending loads of time healing myself and regaining mana (though water shield is a massive help).

Questions I've got:
Is there any news if Blizz is going to make the Enhance a bit more viable for end game any time soon?
Where does the resto heal capability fall in regards to druid and priest?
As a resto with a 2 hander and windfury, would I still have decent face smashing ability (good dps) and survivability?
How much more time might it take me to kill an equal level mob if I go resto (eg If it takes me 10 secs as enhance, would it take me 20, 30, 60 as resto)?
Which spec would a raiding party gain more benefit from?

And finally, if anyone has made the shift, can ya drop me your thoughts on the change in gameplay (liked it more, hated it, etc...) and if its of greater benefit to go resto/ele or resto/enh?

Thanks in advance for any time ya can spare,
Oz

Edited, Apr 10th 2008 7:24pm by OzoneSSX
#2 Apr 10 2008 at 5:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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2,396 posts
OzoneSSX wrote:
I love the thought of a fightin' healer, but unsure if I should have more fight or more heal and what the trade-offs are.

There really is no "fightin' healer" in the game. Hybrid roles were more or less killed when TBC released. Right now one either fights or heals, but if a healer starts fighting or a fighter starts healing, it usually means something has gone wrong. Unless you're dueling, but that's a whole 'nother thread.

Quote:
Lots of Ganks (though expected in OL - but I can handle a 1 on 1 of same level about half the time, except for rogues, where I can never get out of stunlock).

Played well enough, Rogues own just about everyone for free one-on-one, especially in World PvP ganks. The only thing that is going to change this is PvP gear, and let me assure you that the difference is night and day. Rogues still own Enhancement Shaman, but you'll last infinitely longer with a !@#$-ton of armor, stam, and resilliance under your belt.

Aside from Rogues, nothing is really going to save you from ganks, so a 50% win percentage is still pretty good.

Quote:
Relatively useless enhance spec'd items (except for the Totemic Rage chestpiece).

Completely untrue. There is plenty of agi/AP/crit/MP5 gear out there to share with Hunters, and you can take Rogue/Feral Druid leather as well.

Quote:
Poor choice of decent one handers for dual wielding (as the best seem to usually be main hand, but there are some nice two-handers about).

Also untrue. I was able to keep a healthy supply of 2.0-or-higher-speed one-handers around while I leveled. 2.6 is obviously optimal, but you can get by with less as you level.

Quote:
Spending loads of time healing myself and regaining mana (though water shield is a massive help).

I don't want to be overly critical of you, but if your gear doesn't need a complete overhaul then you might want to re-evaluate your attack rotations. I was able to grind as Enhancement with ludicrous killing-speed and very little time spent healing myself and/or waiting on mana.

Quote:
Is there any news if Blizz is going to make the Enhance a bit more viable for end game any time soon?

Enhancement is already capital in end-game PvE, and they're much better in PvP than they used to be, though without a heal-reduction debuff or Rogue-like control (as well as lacking some other tools, but that's another thread) they are always going to play second-fiddle to Rogues and Warriors. Nothing else to really do here other than suck it up and play Enhancement because you like it, respec because you like your Shaman, or re-roll a Rogue or a Warrior. I have to warn you though, respeccing Resto isn't going to solve your ails. Resto is a less-desireable healer than Priests or Druids in PvP, so... you're basically trading six of one for half-a-dozen of the other.

Quote:
Where does the resto heal capability fall in regards to druid and priest?

Shaman make phenominal raid healers, poor tank healers. Comparing them to Druids and Priests in PvE is somewhat inefficient, every healing class has a place and a different role, different areas in which they excel and lack.

Quote:
As a resto with a 2 hander and windfury, would I still have decent face smashing ability (good dps) and survivability?

No. Resto will send your survivability through the roof, but your kill-speed plummets. Their grind more closely resembles Elemental Shaman than Enhancement; they make use of their spell damage.

Quote:
How much more time might it take me to kill an equal level mob if I go resto (eg If it takes me 10 secs as enhance, would it take me 20, 30, 60 as resto)?

I don't know and honestly I don't care. I thought you didn't want math?

Quote:
Which spec would a raiding party gain more benefit from?

Depends what the raiding party needs and what its composition is. If they're melee-heavy or too light on melee, an Enhancement Shaman will work wonders for them. If they're caster-heavy, Elemental is the order of the day. If they need healers, well... guess which Shaman spec they want?

Quote:
And finally, if anyone has made the shift, can ya drop me your thoughts on the change in gameplay (liked it more, hated it, etc...) and if its of greater benefit to go resto/ele or resto/enh?

This is an entirely subjective answer and completely up to the disposition of the player. Some people love their Enhancement melee to death, lots of people have been crushing on Elemental lately. Me personally, I tried Enhancement and Elemental and hated them so much that I almost quit the class. Resto saved it for me though, I absolutely love my Shaman as Resto. But that is me rambling, and only me rambling... Other people have had the complete opposite experience I have, loathing Resto but finding favor with a DPS spec. No one but you can make this decision.

Edited, Apr 10th 2008 11:21pm by Gaudion
#3 Apr 10 2008 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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#4 Apr 10 2008 at 6:16 PM Rating: Decent
OzoneSSX wrote:
Thanks in advance for any time ya can spare,


Enhancement Shaman are just as viable for end-game PvE as Rogues and dps Warriors. What we might not be able to manage in terms of top end dps, we make up for in group buffs. Maybe not so much with Heroics where PUGs would rather have 3 CC jobs whenever they can get them, but for raids and the like you've chosen a class that can let you fill one of two rolls and do so rather effectively.

MH/OH weapons are easy. S1 Axe/Fist/Mace main hand, S1 Axe/Mace offhand (don't go for the Left Ripper...it's too fast and every Enh. Shaman I've seen with one has told me they got it before the Windfury change and they regret wasting the honor/marks on it).

In terms of weapons, that will get you into early 25-mans and beyond. (Prince drops a 2.60 delay 1h axe that would be a 1 dps improvement over the S1 weapons...big deal.)
#5 Apr 10 2008 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
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172 posts
Interesting stuff, thanks guys. As per gear, guess I've had blinders on as per mail, might have to re-look at some of the leathers as the stats dictate. As per 1 handers, yep, I've been stuck in that slow speed mindset in order to max my windfury. As per the 'math question', I was just curious as I level that if i do respec now, will my levelling time increase dramatically? As per the mana, it was relative now that i look back (eg tonight was taking down PvE mobs 2 lvls above me, would get first kill, draw in another, then another, making kills quite quick and resting post 3 or 4 kills - seems that my 'time to heal and loss of mana' was relative to that).

As per respec, want to be able to provide as much support to my group in endgame as possible. So would still love to hear opinions from shammies out there who feel the same and what their thoughts are on end game specs.

Thanks much for info so far, definitely having me rethink a few things.

Oz
#6 Apr 10 2008 at 8:44 PM Rating: Good
OzoneSSX wrote:
Interesting stuff, thanks guys. As per gear, guess I've had blinders on as per mail, might have to re-look at some of the leathers as the stats dictate. As per 1 handers, yep, I've been stuck in that slow speed mindset in order to max my windfury. As per the 'math question', I was just curious as I level that if i do respec now, will my levelling time increase dramatically? As per the mana, it was relative now that i look back (eg tonight was taking down PvE mobs 2 lvls above me, would get first kill, draw in another, then another, making kills quite quick and resting post 3 or 4 kills - seems that my 'time to heal and loss of mana' was relative to that).

As per respec, want to be able to provide as much support to my group in endgame as possible. So would still love to hear opinions from shammies out there who feel the same and what their thoughts are on end game specs.

Thanks much for info so far, definitely having me rethink a few things.

Oz


For any 5-man content, I would say Resto is going to get you the most groups, but that's also highly realm dependent as well as dependent on your sphere of influence. If you have a group of people you can do group content with on a consistant bais, you can spec based on what that group needs the most. Single target spike damage and tank support? Caster buffs and a bit of extra AoE? Healing?

If you rely mainly on PUGs, start now to get a feel for where your realm is at in terms of level 70 PUGs forming in the LFG/trade channel. Do you see a lot of "LF1M need healz then g2g"? If so, your realm is probably like most others. Every class has a dps spec (albeit some more effective than others). If your realm has a lot of fresh 70s or recently had a fresh wave of new players leveling on it, you're going to find a lot of Paladins, Priests, and Druids specced for solo grinding and you being a resto spec will get you parties very, very quickly. Just remember...healing like a champion and killing mobs quickly are often mutually exclusive, so try to get as many of the Outland solo quests out of the way as you can before you respec. By the time you get down to the Netherstorm "Big 3" (Dimensius, Saladaar, Socrethar) you'll likely have tons of gold set aside and if you wanted, you could swap back and forth between specs to keep the solo grind grinding and the group endeavors ticking along.

Right now, I do Kara and the occasional 5-man as enhancement. I've mentioned to the people I'm running Kara with that I'd like to be working on my resto set as well (We've had a resto shammy along on both runs I've done with this group so far, and in both cases I've deferred healer drops to him. His gear is pretty good, however, so a lot of the healer mail will be going to me by default as the weeks roll on.)

I'd strongly recommend that you make sure you have the gear to respec smoothly if you're going to respec at all. I know there are a lot of quests in Outland that offer some nice blues for elemental and even resto shaman, but crap for enhancement. In those cases, resist the temptation to go with the highest vendor value item to sell (or shard) and put something decent in the bank for a future respec. I could never drop the blues/epics I have on my enhancement shammy to start over with a mountain of AH greens as resto...use what you've got to get what you need and *then* respec.
#7 Apr 11 2008 at 4:17 AM Rating: Good
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2,396 posts
OzoneSSX wrote:
As per respec, want to be able to provide as much support to my group in endgame as possible. So would still love to hear opinions from shammies out there who feel the same and what their thoughts are on end game specs.

Again, that's pretty subjective based on the guild/group you run with on a normal basis. I will say that, typically, outside of a 25-man raid, Enhancement and Resto are more desireable than Elemental. Even if you have no melee other than your tanks, an Enhancement Shaman buffing them can be a huge boon for the group, and people almost always need healers.

Quote:
I was just curious as I level that if i do respec now, will my levelling time increase dramatically?

Probably not, for two reasons:

1. Resto levels slower than Enhancement or Elemental anyways.

2. Aurelius raises a good point about the gear, which amazes me in ways you'll never know.

Buying greens off of the AH is a viable option, as is questing for new pieces where possible. The easiest and quickest way to re-gear for a respec is through the various factions' honor vendors. If you're honored or revered with any one faction they've probably got at least one or two good blue items for you and gold grows on trees in Outland, so... have at it.
#8 Apr 11 2008 at 5:09 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
healer starts fighting


I disagree with this. When I BG and when I used to arena frequently, I usually played like an ele/enhancement hybrid. This is the way that I destroy warlocks and mages. I get in close, frist shock and earth bind. Keep meleeing them with flametounge up. Usually works. I heal myself if needed. Granted in BGs and arena I don't use mana other than frost shock. I will heal if anyone or myself needs it and for big AV fights I run around spamming lesser heal.
#9 Apr 12 2008 at 4:04 AM Rating: Decent
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2,396 posts
Draeneipally wrote:
I disagree with this. When I BG and when I used to arena frequently, I usually played like an ele/enhancement hybrid. This is the way that I destroy warlocks and mages. I get in close, frist shock and earth bind. Keep meleeing them with flametounge up. Usually works. I heal myself if needed. Granted in BGs and arena I don't use mana other than frost shock. I will heal if anyone or myself needs it and for big AV fights I run around spamming lesser heal.

It's not that that's a completely ineffective strategy, but in the broad scheme of things it fails pretty fantastically. It's tough enough to keep up with heals in PvP when you're a healing class geared for it, specced for it, and focused entirely on it; as a DPS-er, even though you can heal, your output is just too weak due to gear and lack of talents. Even if you could keep up with the amount of DPS that a lot of classes can put out, one CC, interrupt, or healing debuff renders your whole operation an exercise in futility.

In short, while it is certainly an option, it's unlike to actually make a significant difference in any situation where it actually matters. An AV cluster!@#$ and arenas between 1500 and 1300 are not those situations.
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