Theo's Rogue PvP FAQFollow

Welcome, one and all, to Theo’s Rogue PvP FAQ.

In here, I’ll be taking a look at the evolution of Rogue PvP, from Season 1 through the current patch. In this thread, you’ll see some discussion between myself and other top Rogues that post in this forum, discussion involving specs, team comps, counter-comps, etc.

One thing I won’t do is discuss 1v1 strategy. Duels are not real PvP.

Table of Contents:

Arena terms

Mechanic discussion

Spec discussion

Finisher use

PvP Video list

2v2 discussion

3v3 discussion

5v5 discussion

That should hold us for now. I’ll be putting up links to each individual post as I write them. I’ll be posting the arena terms and mechanics posts with this one and editing in the links.

Edited, May 30th 2008 4:21pm by Theophany

Mechanic Discussion

Here’s where we’ll talk about mechanics, such as our class has. I’ll also be talking about some skill sets that rogues should have in order to succeed in PvP, as well as some basic gearing, gemming, and enchanting ideas.

As far as gemming and enchanting goes before S4, here’s your guide:

Gems:
Red: AP
Yellow: crit/AP, or hit if PvP hit cap hasn’t been reached.
Blue: There are no blue sockets in our PvP gear, LOL!
Meta: 24 AP/runspeed

Enchants:
Head: Cenarion Expedition (36 AP/16 hit)
Shoulder: Exalted enchant of your faction (preferably Aldor)
Cloak: 12 Agi or +stealth
Chest: 6 stats or 15 resilience (generally 6 stats)
Bracer: 24 AP
Gloves: 15 Agi or 26 AP
Legs: 50 AP/12 crit
Boots: Surefooted

Now, in PvP, you need a certain hit rating in order to not miss with specials attacks like Eviscerate, Hemorrhage, and Sinister Strike. That’s called the PvP Hit Cap. That hit cap is 79. 78.85 if you want to get technical (15.77 hit rating per percent, and you need 5% to not miss specials), but you can’t get fractions of hit rating.

Of course, there’s always the Mage talent Arctic Winds, but generally, we can’t give up too much in the way of other stats on our PvP gear to get enough hit to negate Arctic Winds, ergo we ignore that talent when gemming our gear.

With current PvP gear and weapons, if you have season 3 head, chest, and legs in addition to two arena weapons and Surefooted on your boots, you should be sitting right at the hit cap. With S3 weapons and armor in addition to Surefooted, you should have exactly 78 hit. That means you’re either going to miss a fraction of a percent of your specials (which is considered bad, bad RNG) or you can socket a hit/Agi gem into a yellow socket to compensate. I really don’t have much of an opinion either way, but I’m tempted to say that the hit/Agi method is preferred.

As far as trinkets are concerned, since rogues have good survivability with a full set of PvP gear on, we want a burst damage trinket in addition to our 2 minute PvP trinket.

To that end, an AP trinket with an “on use” effect is considered the best option. That list includes Bloodlust Brooch, Berserker’s Call, Shadowsong Panther, and others.

Battlemaster trinkets are generally a no-no. There’s not much use for an extra 1700 HP when you’ve got Cheat Death.

As far as rogue abilities go, there are some ways to use Vanish that I find to be much more useful than just getting another opener.

The first is obviously an out, breaking a root or snare. Extremely useful, and even more useful when considered with Elusiveness and Prep.

The second is not so obvious. Everyone doing arena should have an addon like WitchHunt that tracks casted spells, or be able to see enough of the playing field to see who’s targeting whom and be able to keep track of spells being cast on you.

The second use takes a lot more practice, but vanishing incoming spells is a skill that will greatly benefit you in keeping you in range of your target and also keeping you in the fight. This same principle can be applied to Will of the Forsaken if you’re undead. Too many rogues use it as a reactionary fear break, when you’ve already moved a good 8-12 yards from your target.

Cloak of Shadows can be used in this way too, though less reliably. I generally save it for wiping DoTs from a Lock or if I’m getting focused and I need to take some pressure off for my healers.

Updated Gemming for 3+ piece S4 Rogues

This is the part for the rogues with 3+ pieces of S4 gear, thus putting you at 78-83 hit prior to enchants and gems other than your helm. In S4, I've started to gem very offensively, forgoing the old Swift Skyfire Diamond gem (24 AP/runspeed) for the RED (12 Agi/3% crit damage). Here's what the enchants look like.

Gems:
Red: AP for comps where you're not focused, Agi for comps where you are.
Yellow: 2x Crit/stam to activate meta.
Blue: There are no blue sockets in our PvP gear, LOL!
Meta: 12 Agi/3% crit damage

Enchants:
Head: Cenarion Expedition (36 AP/16 hit)
Shoulder: Exalted enchant of your faction (preferably Aldor)
Cloak: 12 Agi or +stealth
Chest: 6 stats or 15 resilience (generally 6 stats)
Bracer: 24 AP
Gloves: 15 Agi or 26 AP
Legs: 50 AP/12 crit
Boots: Cat's Swiftness

Now, something you might notice that I changed is the red gems. I changed it to "AP for comps where you're not focused, Agi for comps where you are" from just straight AP for numerous reasons.

1) I've never been on a team where I was focused.
2) I didn't think that Agi was as significant for damage as AP.

I've had my mind changed a bit since then, and I believe that any comp where you're a target, you should be socketing Agi for the dodge and armor. Otherwise, stick with AP.

Edited, Jul 10th 2008 5:44am by Theophany

Amazing. I put up a helpful link and my OP gets downrated for it.

Way to go, ******* morons.

ya, no idea why you got rated down for a helpful post theo, so i rated you back up for what thats worth. at least have the balls to post why theo should be rated down; none of the information hes posted thus far has been erroneous in any way, and if it was a correction and/or dicussion would be more in order instead of a flat rate down.

+12 Agility to Cloak (Enchant) so many people forget this 1

Well, it depends, in PvP there are 2 enchants good for rogues, 1 being as said, 12agi, the other being(and the one I use) +stealth.

Yes, in the spec post there will be a discussion of meta gems for each spec.

I will mention now, though, any build that takes Fleet Footed should use the 12 crit/5% snare resist meta, and anything without should use the 24 AP/runspeed.

Nice. Thanks Theo.

Been looking around a little bit for something like this, get to work and there it is.

Thinking about hitting arena when I hit 70 and this will definately help with figuring out what is going on.

hey, theo, ill judge this when its fully done

but if you wont be discussing 1v1... thats fair

but you didnt mention world pvp or bgs at all either

WTB name change to 'Theo's Arena FAQ for Rogues'

Average post.

Equal guides are already found in other places.

Google is good

i dont necessarily care about 5/5 vile poisons if im ganking in terrokar, or knowing how to stunlock a healer doesnt win playing wsg defense

some principles can be tranferred... but if i premade AB with 15 people thinking its a 5v5 arena, i doubt theyd win unless they only hold 3 bases the entire time

if you want an example, tell me what in arenas helps you learn how to flag-protect the best in wsg

its not as much killing the biggest threat to whoever is holding the flag... as it is stopping a few people by small little tricks and letting your other support teammates do their part

arena is arena... yes much harder then bg and world but just because arena is harder to do, doesnt mean its 100% of wow's pvp

knowing glitch spots or good areas to attack from in halaa isnt learned in ruins of lord


ya dig?

(and for the record, go join a serious premade guild... they care about bg's as much as arena... youll see some differences)

Edited, Apr 8th 2008 2:45pm by mongoosexcore

This is perfect timing for me theo, as im about a week away from starting arena for this first time. Now ill have some better insight. Rated up!

Actually this means he can flame twice as hard..because this will be stickied, but u know some people wont ready it and ask the same questions. So people will now be charred.