I have been reading a few topics and i think that most of you are wrong. You count Priest only as a healer. Shadow priest makes pretty good DPS. To Everybody who don't know if they should roll a disc or holy or shadow priest it doesn't matter what you roll in the beginning, you can respec later.
Long live shadow priests!!!
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Shadow Priest is a good DPS!Follow
The point of a shadow priest isn't blunt DPS. It's keeping the raid topped off with VT and VE.
Yeah I understand why you feel that way. There are several times/levels where a SP is very powerful. But once you reach the higher end game raid content you will find that other DPS classes can far outstrip the DPS of the SP.
The SP still brings large amounts of utility to the raid. This becomes the only reason the SP is still invited to the end game raids.
The SP still brings large amounts of utility to the raid. This becomes the only reason the SP is still invited to the end game raids.
Shadow priests deal decent damage until mid-T5, when everyone else finally catches up with FSW. Beyond that, almost every damage class deals better damage (yes, even ret pallies). That's not to say they're not wanted, though, as they make fights a hell of a lot easier and some fights are near-impossible without a spriest or two.
31 posts
This is not true. i have been in two endgame raiding guilds now, one ally one horde, one as a holy priest and one as a rogue. in both of my guilds a shadow priest has been top dps or among the top two or three, in fights that favor melee dps or aoe classes. people always say "well then your dps must suck". No, i tell you, all the shadow priests you have ever seen suck. Stop using vampiric embrace, you take more threat than you need, vampiric touch is your raid utility and if you dont have the threat problem you generate more mana for your other caster dps or healers. let the healers get the extra threat, they shouldnt be close to the tank, like the SP should. If you need a dps class to heal, your healers suck. If youre shadow, stack spell dmg, stop gemming ur **** with mp5 and spell hit. you have a low hit cap and you get enough in gear. if you get low on mana you can Vampiric touch-mindflay all the mana you will ever need to sustain urself till you can pot again. if your healers dont suck you can use shadow word death everytime its up and increase your dps. spec 14-0-47...if you keep a solid spell rotation that utilizes every dps CD and keep ur dots up you will always be competitive for the top dmg spot. spell crit is cool, but its all about spell dmg, so get the frozen shadoweave set if you can.
so yes. long live shadow priests.
so yes. long live shadow priests.
While I think Juhanoh is being a bit sophmoric at best, I will say that if you take the literal meaning of his post title, then I would agree.
Shadow priests are GOOD at dps, they are not great. Chrizwan, please link footage of your "pwnage" of a raid as top dps. Back before TBC, I would have aggreed that given the opportunity and due to mana efficiency, a SP could potentially be in the top 3. Now, in today's BC world, there is little chance. If you read the boards, or follow any sort of spreadsheet data, you would also understand that we are + damaged capped for many of our spells and do not receive the full bonus of + damage on any of our nukes or standard spells.
Plus, in 2.4, resilience now effects a spell like mana burn, which in turn reduces our effectiveness in PvP. Think and study before responding a bit more. I will say that you did take the time to mention spell rotation, dropping the use of VE and VT, and so forth which are all good points if you want to be up near the top. As it stands, if the damage meter is all you care about, then a Rogue, Mage, or Warlock should often own most of the top spots and Shadow Priests own the upper middle with tons of utility. I still love Shadow Priets, just wish they would fix them a bit more.
Shadow priests are GOOD at dps, they are not great. Chrizwan, please link footage of your "pwnage" of a raid as top dps. Back before TBC, I would have aggreed that given the opportunity and due to mana efficiency, a SP could potentially be in the top 3. Now, in today's BC world, there is little chance. If you read the boards, or follow any sort of spreadsheet data, you would also understand that we are + damaged capped for many of our spells and do not receive the full bonus of + damage on any of our nukes or standard spells.
Plus, in 2.4, resilience now effects a spell like mana burn, which in turn reduces our effectiveness in PvP. Think and study before responding a bit more. I will say that you did take the time to mention spell rotation, dropping the use of VE and VT, and so forth which are all good points if you want to be up near the top. As it stands, if the damage meter is all you care about, then a Rogue, Mage, or Warlock should often own most of the top spots and Shadow Priests own the upper middle with tons of utility. I still love Shadow Priets, just wish they would fix them a bit more.
31 posts
I didnt say it was me. I played a holy priest and a rogue, i currently focus on my rogue; but the SP in my guild is nearly always top on dmg and i'm usually second.
When i played holy priest the SP in my guild topped dmg. I didnt say it was me, i dont lie.
And yea, resilience affects mana burn, i knew that. that has nothing to do with pve dps for two reasons. One..resilience in pve? two..mana burn in pve?
and i also didnt say to drop VT. its mana efficient dps and provides excellent utility without added threat.
Edited, Apr 7th 2008 7:59pm by Chrizwan
When i played holy priest the SP in my guild topped dmg. I didnt say it was me, i dont lie.
And yea, resilience affects mana burn, i knew that. that has nothing to do with pve dps for two reasons. One..resilience in pve? two..mana burn in pve?
and i also didnt say to drop VT. its mana efficient dps and provides excellent utility without added threat.
Edited, Apr 7th 2008 7:59pm by Chrizwan
I point out mana burn as it is a spell that is useful in PvP at times as well as in PvE at times, just not very often. It does go into the whole viability versus dps discussion.
Also, the original poster just said the Shadow Priests are good DPS, but did not specify PvP versus PvE so I was being general in my statements.
I also understand that you did not say to DROP VT, but to use it when it is needed... as for being mana efficient, not so much.
Bottomline, I still have a hard time seeing a shadowpriest at the top of dps in a 25 man raid. Not that it could not happen, but I would be very surprised. Now if you are refering to the old 40 man days, then actually you have a bit more potential as there was not so much + damage gear floating around and pending on AoE, you could end up at the top and I did on several occasions. Now, I am happy sitting in back half of the top ten... actually as I just respecced to Holy, I am happy sitting in dead last or near enough to it.
Also, the original poster just said the Shadow Priests are good DPS, but did not specify PvP versus PvE so I was being general in my statements.
I also understand that you did not say to DROP VT, but to use it when it is needed... as for being mana efficient, not so much.
Bottomline, I still have a hard time seeing a shadowpriest at the top of dps in a 25 man raid. Not that it could not happen, but I would be very surprised. Now if you are refering to the old 40 man days, then actually you have a bit more potential as there was not so much + damage gear floating around and pending on AoE, you could end up at the top and I did on several occasions. Now, I am happy sitting in back half of the top ten... actually as I just respecced to Holy, I am happy sitting in dead last or near enough to it.
31 posts
Whiskey, out of curiosity, where are you currently raiding on your priest? I would armory your toon/guild but i cant do it at work. >_<
In the beginning raids, Chriz, sure, shadowpriests are very competitive for the top spot. This fades with time. It's not a matter of playing skill or gemming or gear or anything like that; it's a matter of scaling.
Shadow uses five damage spells, three of which have wretched, wretched coefficients for damage. By the same token, shadow talents are heavily percentage based; there's nothing comparable to, say, a mage's Empowered talents. What this means is that shadow priests are _overpowered_ for damage at the beginning, balanced at about half t5/half Kara, and _underpowered_ the rest of the way out.
But none of that changes why shadowpriests are brought to raids. Shadowpriests are brought to raids for the mana/health siphoning, which are incredibly valuable. Do they do decent damage to back it up? Sure they do. Not stellar at the top-end level, but decent.
Shadow uses five damage spells, three of which have wretched, wretched coefficients for damage. By the same token, shadow talents are heavily percentage based; there's nothing comparable to, say, a mage's Empowered talents. What this means is that shadow priests are _overpowered_ for damage at the beginning, balanced at about half t5/half Kara, and _underpowered_ the rest of the way out.
But none of that changes why shadowpriests are brought to raids. Shadowpriests are brought to raids for the mana/health siphoning, which are incredibly valuable. Do they do decent damage to back it up? Sure they do. Not stellar at the top-end level, but decent.
Quote:
This is not true. i have been in two endgame raiding guilds now, one ally one horde, one as a holy priest and one as a rogue. in both of my guilds a shadow priest has been top dps or among the top two or three, in fights that favor melee dps or aoe classes.
If you were raiding T6 content I will be most suprised. If you were then to be frank, the rest of your guild's dps was slacking. I struggle to break 1500 dps most of the time, which is considered normal for shadow. Other dps classes should be capable of 2000+ at that level.
Yea, Chrizwan, I really do have to say either your other DPS sucked, their gear sucked, or you didn't get past mid-T5 where they can still keep up (especially on certain fights, I still regularly top Leo due to DoT + Fade). Mages, warlocks, hunters, rogues, and fury warriors just scale so much better that they have no excuse to lose to a shadow priest past mid-T5 gear levels.
Case in point: I could push 1175dps before I upgraded both of my trinkets yesterday, on really good fights (Noralakk and Karathress being my strongest). Our undergeared warrior breaks 1100dps, regular hunters and mages both get 1200-1250, destro locks around 1300-1350, and we had a rogue manage 1600dps on Aneth the other night.
Case in point: I could push 1175dps before I upgraded both of my trinkets yesterday, on really good fights (Noralakk and Karathress being my strongest). Our undergeared warrior breaks 1100dps, regular hunters and mages both get 1200-1250, destro locks around 1300-1350, and we had a rogue manage 1600dps on Aneth the other night.
31 posts
ok, this is fine. in both guilds that i raided in i have only been through ssc (currently on vashj) and TK. Up to this point SP's have done just fine. I can imagine that further on SP's will fall behind. I guess that's one clarification that people should make when discussing a classes potential anyway. On my horde server the most progressed guild is only now getting into BT with a lot of new server transfers from high pop servers.
Juhanoh wrote:
I have been reading a few topics and i think that most of you are wrong. You count Priest only as a healer. Shadow priest makes pretty good DPS. To Everybody who don't know if they should roll a disc or holy or shadow priest it doesn't matter what you roll in the beginning, you can respec later.
Long live shadow priests!!!
Long live shadow priests!!!
I think this is a troll.
This board does NOT say that a priest is only a healer-- far from it.
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