hey, i have a 70 mage that im pretty happy with. however, i dont think im doing enough dps in 5-mans and raids. in heroic dungeons i usually open with a couple scorches, then a fire blast. however, i can hardly get a fireball off before the mob is dead. PvP is okay, ive got some good instant casts which help me maintain a high standing on the kill chart.
This is my armory here.
This is my intended spec for getting a bit more damage out.
Edited, Apr 6th 2008 7:23am by lonerlien
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spec for more damageFollow
Don't bother with scorches in a 5 man/heroic. Not worth the time except on big single mob pulls. Basic rule: If you can get off 3 fireballs after 2 scorches, scorch twice. Else, just fireball. Save fireblast for something you don't have time to fireball before it dies.
As for spec, while the spec you've linked will improve your damage a bit, you're going about it the wrong way. As much fire damage as you have, if you're gonna be that deep in fire, you really really should have empowered fireball. That's something like 108 more damage to your fireballs ignoring all other talents. You're also underestimating combustion. And for raids, losing Molten Fury is crazy talk.
As for spec, while the spec you've linked will improve your damage a bit, you're going about it the wrong way. As much fire damage as you have, if you're gonna be that deep in fire, you really really should have empowered fireball. That's something like 108 more damage to your fireballs ignoring all other talents. You're also underestimating combustion. And for raids, losing Molten Fury is crazy talk.
I'm not entirely sure on this, but i think going Arcane might boost your dps a bit. I dont fully know what condition your gear needs to be in for Fire to be better (yes i know there are a million posts)but im assuming yours is still at a point where arcane would be a boost.
Also if you need an Arcane spec check The Greatest Mage Post Ever.
Hope that helps not hinders!
Also if you need an Arcane spec check The Greatest Mage Post Ever.
Hope that helps not hinders!
As I level my mage, the concept of using different abilities in different situation intruiges me. I'm guessing that in end-game, scorch is more mana-efficient (albeit a lot weaker DPS) than fireball, and fire blast is just the opposite. Thus, on fights where I need high mana efficiency (such as magtheridon, or maybe trash if we're powering through) scorch spam would be best, on really short fights a 2xBall 1xBlast rotation would be best (with 1 point in imp blast, of course), and then for other fights either just fireball spam or scorch x5 (then hold) and fireball spam.
I could be completely wrong, but that's my guess. If I am wrong, PLEASE correct me, so that I may learn.
I could be completely wrong, but that's my guess. If I am wrong, PLEASE correct me, so that I may learn.
skribs wrote:
As I level my mage, the concept of using different abilities in different situation intruiges me. I'm guessing that in end-game, scorch is more mana-efficient (albeit a lot weaker DPS) than fireball, and fire blast is just the opposite. Thus, on fights where I need high mana efficiency (such as magtheridon, or maybe trash if we're powering through) scorch spam would be best, on really short fights a 2xBall 1xBlast rotation would be best (with 1 point in imp blast, of course), and then for other fights either just fireball spam or scorch x5 (then hold) and fireball spam.
I could be completely wrong, but that's my guess. If I am wrong, PLEASE correct me, so that I may learn.
I could be completely wrong, but that's my guess. If I am wrong, PLEASE correct me, so that I may learn.
Fire Blast is less DPS due to the global cooldown and lesser +damage scaling than Fireball. Fire Blast is to be used in group situations only when:
1) The mob is close to death, and it would take too long to pull off a Fireball.
2) You are about to move, or are moving.
You'll use Fire Blast plenty, but it should only be done when you're getting up to relocate for any reason.
Edit: As for mana efficiency, Scorch spam is a higher efficiency, but it's a pretty big DPS drop. Generally, you should be safe in most situations to Fireball spam in terms of mana efficiency.
Edited, Apr 6th 2008 10:03pm by Raglu
I wouldn't use a fireblast unless it is to finish off a mob, you waste a GCD on it.
Raglu wrote:
Fire Blast is less DPS due to the global cooldown and lesser +damage scaling than Fireball. Fire Blast is to be used in group situations only when:
1) The mob is close to death, and it would take too long to pull off a Fireball.
2) You are about to move, or are moving.
You'll use Fire Blast plenty, but it should only be done when you're getting up to relocate for any reason.
1) The mob is close to death, and it would take too long to pull off a Fireball.
2) You are about to move, or are moving.
You'll use Fire Blast plenty, but it should only be done when you're getting up to relocate for any reason.
This, though there are two advanced tricks to be aware of with fireblast.
1)With Combustion, if you have a reasonably high stack and are likely to be using up the last charge on it, toss a fireblast right after that last fireball to double dip on the increased crit.
2)On Zul'jin in phase 3(***** of a phase, btw) if you use fireblast immediately after a fireball such that they hit at the same time(roughly) you will not take electrical storm damage for the fireblast.
16 posts
I didnt get to look at the spec u linked but im 10/48/3 and do alot of dps for the crappy gear i got. You can look me up but dont mind the gear Jeremycreel- troll-mage-Smolderthorn-guild:Bonebread the 10 is for clearcasting it helps alot for mana. and like the other post said if u dont have Combustion (however you spell it) it is really good for 5-man instances and raids helps your dps alot and if you have ignite it helps alot to. hope that helps..
Quote:
Fire Blast is less DPS due to the global cooldown and lesser +damage scaling than Fireball. Fire Blast is to be used in group situations only when:
Ah! I was just curious because at my level (granted I'm low) fire ball and fire blast do about the same amount of damage, and 1.5 seconds GCD is better than 3 second cast. I guess I'll just have to do the math every few levels to find out when blast tapers off.
skribs wrote:
Quote:
Fire Blast is less DPS due to the global cooldown and lesser +damage scaling than Fireball. Fire Blast is to be used in group situations only when:
Ah! I was just curious because at my level (granted I'm low) fire ball and fire blast do about the same amount of damage, and 1.5 seconds GCD is better than 3 second cast. I guess I'll just have to do the math every few levels to find out when blast tapers off.
So long as your spell damage is pretty low, it's gonna be pretty close. Where fireball has an edge is that it scales with spell damage a lot better.
Yeah I'm sitting on 13 +spell damage atm. So they aren't scaling at all, really.
EDIT
After reading through here, and finding that scorch is really only used for the debuff, and fire blast is only used situationally, I have 2 questions to ask:
1. Is it better to use scorch rank 1 (and thus save mana) to reapply the debuff, or is it better to just use max rank (and get the extra couple hundred damage)? Or is this situational dependent upon how fast you go OOM?
2. Is the points in incineration really worth it? If my math is right, assuming scorch is used 5 times at first, then once every 9 fireballs for the debuff, the overall DPS improvement that can be seen by taking up incineration scales down, at best being maybe an 0.25% increase in DPS per talent point spent (compare that to other talents which are 1.5%+ per talent point, it seems really inneficient...especially since the longer the fight and the more FB can be used between scorches the less efficient the talent becomes).
The only advantages I can see are that if you do a lot of moving around (i.e. getting bounced by trash in TK, mag's earthquakes, kiting in PvP or just in general) then it would give more overall damage to fire blast, and that those 2 points won't really increase your DPS in other areas (although maybe utility). So I'm wondering if it would be some sort of elemental sin to not take those talent points, or if I can find a use for them in other places (e.g. 3 points in imp fire blast to improve kiting, instead of 2/2 and 1/3 that my original build planned) would those options be just as viable?
Edited, Apr 8th 2008 12:38am by skribs
Edited, Apr 8th 2008 12:49am by skribs
EDIT
After reading through here, and finding that scorch is really only used for the debuff, and fire blast is only used situationally, I have 2 questions to ask:
1. Is it better to use scorch rank 1 (and thus save mana) to reapply the debuff, or is it better to just use max rank (and get the extra couple hundred damage)? Or is this situational dependent upon how fast you go OOM?
2. Is the points in incineration really worth it? If my math is right, assuming scorch is used 5 times at first, then once every 9 fireballs for the debuff, the overall DPS improvement that can be seen by taking up incineration scales down, at best being maybe an 0.25% increase in DPS per talent point spent (compare that to other talents which are 1.5%+ per talent point, it seems really inneficient...especially since the longer the fight and the more FB can be used between scorches the less efficient the talent becomes).
The only advantages I can see are that if you do a lot of moving around (i.e. getting bounced by trash in TK, mag's earthquakes, kiting in PvP or just in general) then it would give more overall damage to fire blast, and that those 2 points won't really increase your DPS in other areas (although maybe utility). So I'm wondering if it would be some sort of elemental sin to not take those talent points, or if I can find a use for them in other places (e.g. 3 points in imp fire blast to improve kiting, instead of 2/2 and 1/3 that my original build planned) would those options be just as viable?
Edited, Apr 8th 2008 12:38am by skribs
Edited, Apr 8th 2008 12:49am by skribs
On raid mobs, if you truly want to maximize your damage, it's worth 5-stacking scorch on *any* mob that lasts longer than 15 seconds. If you want, I can try and scrounge up the math.
Also, Fire Blast isn't a "wasted" GCD, despite what people thing, at most gear levels. Fireball only actually starts doing more damage/castsecond at somehwere around +1600dmg, iirc.
However, Fire Blast interacts weird with the spell queue system. Let me explain real quick:
No queue, 200 ping (pre-2.3):
1.00 - Click Fireball, client recognizes the cast
1.20 - Server recognizes the cast
3.20 - Fireball ends, click Fireball, client recognizes
3.40 - Server recognizes the cast
6.40 - Fireball ends, etc
Spell queue, 200ping (current):
1.00 - Click Fireball, client recognizes
1.20 - Server recognizes the cast went off .20 seconds ago
3.00 - Click Fireball, server recognizes the spell SHOULD have ended here, first Fireball launches, second Fireball starts
The problem with Fireblast is that the spell queue doesn't work with Fire Blast, so it's like the first example. Instead of having a 1.5sec "cast time," it essentially has 1.5 + latency, which makes it not worth casting (at least in groups) except during movement where you're not casting anything else, or as a finisher.
Also, Fire Blast isn't a "wasted" GCD, despite what people thing, at most gear levels. Fireball only actually starts doing more damage/castsecond at somehwere around +1600dmg, iirc.
However, Fire Blast interacts weird with the spell queue system. Let me explain real quick:
No queue, 200 ping (pre-2.3):
1.00 - Click Fireball, client recognizes the cast
1.20 - Server recognizes the cast
3.20 - Fireball ends, click Fireball, client recognizes
3.40 - Server recognizes the cast
6.40 - Fireball ends, etc
Spell queue, 200ping (current):
1.00 - Click Fireball, client recognizes
1.20 - Server recognizes the cast went off .20 seconds ago
3.00 - Click Fireball, server recognizes the spell SHOULD have ended here, first Fireball launches, second Fireball starts
The problem with Fireblast is that the spell queue doesn't work with Fire Blast, so it's like the first example. Instead of having a 1.5sec "cast time," it essentially has 1.5 + latency, which makes it not worth casting (at least in groups) except during movement where you're not casting anything else, or as a finisher.
lsfreak wrote:
On raid mobs, if you truly want to maximize your damage, it's worth 5-stacking scorch on *any* mob that lasts longer than 15 seconds. If you want, I can try and scrounge up the math.
Also, Fire Blast isn't a "wasted" GCD, despite what people thing, at most gear levels. Fireball only actually starts doing more damage/castsecond at somehwere around +1600dmg, iirc.
However, Fire Blast interacts weird with the spell queue system. Let me explain real quick:
No queue, 200 ping (pre-2.3):
1.00 - Click Fireball, client recognizes the cast
1.20 - Server recognizes the cast
3.20 - Fireball ends, click Fireball, client recognizes
3.40 - Server recognizes the cast
6.40 - Fireball ends, etc
Spell queue, 200ping (current):
1.00 - Click Fireball, client recognizes
1.20 - Server recognizes the cast went off .20 seconds ago
3.00 - Click Fireball, server recognizes the spell SHOULD have ended here, first Fireball launches, second Fireball starts
The problem with Fireblast is that the spell queue doesn't work with Fire Blast, so it's like the first example. Instead of having a 1.5sec "cast time," it essentially has 1.5 + latency, which makes it not worth casting (at least in groups) except during movement where you're not casting anything else, or as a finisher.
Also, Fire Blast isn't a "wasted" GCD, despite what people thing, at most gear levels. Fireball only actually starts doing more damage/castsecond at somehwere around +1600dmg, iirc.
However, Fire Blast interacts weird with the spell queue system. Let me explain real quick:
No queue, 200 ping (pre-2.3):
1.00 - Click Fireball, client recognizes the cast
1.20 - Server recognizes the cast
3.20 - Fireball ends, click Fireball, client recognizes
3.40 - Server recognizes the cast
6.40 - Fireball ends, etc
Spell queue, 200ping (current):
1.00 - Click Fireball, client recognizes
1.20 - Server recognizes the cast went off .20 seconds ago
3.00 - Click Fireball, server recognizes the spell SHOULD have ended here, first Fireball launches, second Fireball starts
The problem with Fireblast is that the spell queue doesn't work with Fire Blast, so it's like the first example. Instead of having a 1.5sec "cast time," it essentially has 1.5 + latency, which makes it not worth casting (at least in groups) except during movement where you're not casting anything else, or as a finisher.
fireball does quite a bit better, and far before 1600 damage. I challenge you to find a single persin, WoW-wide that has that much damage (minus crazy buffs of course). I believe that unless you are moving a lot and do not have time to get off a fireball or the mob is going to die and thus you cannot get another fireball cast off then it is worth using, but once a person is in a raiding situation, fireblast will only hurt a stand-still dps rotation.
Math:
Assuming 2/48/11 spec. ImpScorch and Misery on the target. Ignoring haste (effect both the same) and crit (despite Fire Blast having 4% higher)
Fire Blast: 725 base damage, scales ~42.86% (using exact in calcs) or .2857dmg/sec
Fireball: 719 base damage, scales 1.15% or .3833dmg/sec
So we have the formula:
[(basedmg + dmg * coefficient) * scorch * misery * playing_with_fire * fire_power] / cast_time
Plugging that into my calculator with "dmg" as the x-variable, I get an intercept point of just under 2500dmg, where they will both be doing about 1640dmg/castingsecond. However, the combination of shorter range, Ignite loss bug, and the cast time issues (with 200 ping alone it drops to a mere 1423dmg), it's still not worth casting.
EDIT: Btw, 2.4 badge vendor + Hex Lord's hood and standard raid buffs puts me at over 1600dmg, but then again I'm a shadow priest so I don't have to focus on crit/hit.
Edited, Apr 9th 2008 12:27pm by lsfreak
Assuming 2/48/11 spec. ImpScorch and Misery on the target. Ignoring haste (effect both the same) and crit (despite Fire Blast having 4% higher)
Fire Blast: 725 base damage, scales ~42.86% (using exact in calcs) or .2857dmg/sec
Fireball: 719 base damage, scales 1.15% or .3833dmg/sec
So we have the formula:
[(basedmg + dmg * coefficient) * scorch * misery * playing_with_fire * fire_power] / cast_time
Plugging that into my calculator with "dmg" as the x-variable, I get an intercept point of just under 2500dmg, where they will both be doing about 1640dmg/castingsecond. However, the combination of shorter range, Ignite loss bug, and the cast time issues (with 200 ping alone it drops to a mere 1423dmg), it's still not worth casting.
EDIT: Btw, 2.4 badge vendor + Hex Lord's hood and standard raid buffs puts me at over 1600dmg, but then again I'm a shadow priest so I don't have to focus on crit/hit.
Edited, Apr 9th 2008 12:27pm by lsfreak
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