Help wanted with specc: Mace with Hemo (PvP)Follow

Hey there fellow Rogue,

I just made it till lvl 70 with my NE Rogue (10days playtime) and this is my first lvl 70 char so everything is kinda new to me..
Respecced 2 times in the past 2 days and Im thinking about re-speccing again into:
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/rogue/talents.html?0000000000000000000000233050020055000000000005002531001321113301310

as you can see I want the Stunning maces effect but also the sneaky part since I noticed I was being detected too easy before..

Atm I'm using:

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/rogue/talents.html?0000000000000000000000231052022055000000000005001531002321113201300

Any advice or help is welcome here..


P.s. Got the Gladiator maces already..


Edited, Apr 5th 2008 8:12pm by Appelmoesz

And gives u a lot more survivability, which I guess you are lacking.

Why would you go for hemo and then improve SS? Seems kinda redundant since your probably using them for point generation. Just me... I also can't understand why you wouldn't go all the way for shadow step since you went almost all the way down the subtlety chain...

There isn't a problem with the build I posted that's why I posted it. I'm just trying to give an alternative to shadowstep. I don't really care for when someone asks about something, it being dismissed if it isn't optimal. Shadowstep is a solid build; it just seemed to me that what the OP wanted was help speccing using combat maces, not what the best spec was.

@perkin, you're right, it is dumb, and that's why the builds the OP listed are terrible among other reasons.

I also wonder why one would spec to get ghostly strike, but I guess it's situationally useful. I do know that a rogue with the rating to prove he's good is using it, so I won't question it.

For BG's combat is better than shadowstep? No pvp gear yet on my rogue

@devzzz I think you mean preparation has a 10 minute cooldown. Shadowstep is on a 30 second cooldown.

And look at every single rogue rated lower than he in in Bloodlust; he's in Ruin.

Ruin is a joke compared to Bloodlust, FYI.

You're an idiot.

Thanks for al the reactions!
I came up with this new build:
Appelmoes-Turalyon
Im testing it ATM and so far I love it.
What I dont understand is why you should want to not use Ghostly Strike..?

A good team is a good team is a good team.

Top 10 on Bloodlust isn't much better than top 10 anywhere else. The BG9 hype is for the most part ridiculous.

False.

Bloodlust has been known as the best BG for PvP even pre-arena, back when WSG premades went up against one another.

More PvP-oriented players = more PvP teams = more chances to run into a counter-comp.

Getting back to OP's question. No offense Appelmoesz, but your build is terrible. Unlike some of the other blokes on this forum, I'll at least tell you why and give you some constructive criticism. If you're going for combat hemo with cheat death then you should use the following build as it's better by leaps and bounds then the previous one.

Combat-Hemo-Maces

Starting with your combat tree:

1. DO NOT GET IMPROVED SINISTER STRIKE!
Sorry for the caps, but you've done this every single time and it's probably the biggest flaw in the build. You're NEVER going to use it again if you have hemo. You get hemo so you can use less energy than sinister strike (SS) which let's you build combo points faster and no rogue with hemo ever uses SS ever again. Honestly, get 3/3 imp gouge because the incapacitate can be useful to give yourself a break and maybe bandage yourself if you need to. Then get 2/5 for lightening reflexing which is really a filler anyway.

2. Good job getting Imp kick, but get imp sprint also and avoid endurance. In the arena you don't need endurance because your fights won't last 3.5 minutes for you to use it again. Get Imp Sprint it's very good for getting you out of snares without wasting a vanish or cloak of shadows. You'll have the points for this if you stop wasting points in lightening reflexes.

3. Get blade flurry. It's amazing it's a slice and dice that needs no combo points and so much more. It stacks with SnD and can hit other targets. It's great for burning down a target.

Now for subtlety.

1.SETUP: it sucks don't get it.
Setup is a powerful talent, but it's only good with 3/3 points in it and then it still sucks. Whether you actually get the combo points is hit or miss and there are other equally powerful if not more so talents that are more consistent than it. Avoid it so you can get better talents.

2. Ghostly strike is an okay talent, but not really good without setup and setup sucks anyway. You'll probably never use it for the same reasons you won't use SS: You have hemo. I would skip it so you can use the talent points elsewhere. Like elusiveness. You're getting it mostly for the lowered cooldown on blind. In the event you meet someone of similar skill and the fight drags out, you may need it again. (Hey, it does happen. >_<)

3. GET DIRTY DEEDS. This is where most of the punch for the end of the fight comes from in the subtlety tree. Traditionally subtlety has always sucked at finishing the fight. 20% additional damage when the target is below 35% health. Did you even read this? This alone should help you realize how awesome this talent is. Additionally, last I checked, combat mace anything was used for stunning and this reduces the cost of cheapshot, which is your opening move. You get this talent if you've gone this far or you've done something seriously wrong.

4. Heightened senses is good for finding other stealthers like rogues or maybe a resto druid in hiding or a NE trying to trick you. You can put talents elsewhere instead, though I've already guided you to all the good ones you didn't get. Maybe get Ghostly strike if you're really so gungho about it, but again I wouldn't.

5. Don't get Master of subtlety because you're going to...

6. Get Deadliness. Let me spell it out for you. 10% more attack power = 10 % more damage all the time. This is better than 10% more damage only some of the time. Additionally, if you ***** up your opener Master of Subtlety did nothing for you where as you'll still have deadliness.

7. Get Premeditation. You've already gone this far and you should still have 1 point left even after you go 3/3 Cheat Death, which you should get if you've gone this far anyway. It's a very powerful talent that's great for stunlock and amazing for the arena especially with preparation. Premed+Cheapshot = 4 or 5 combo points right off the bat and you're ready for a kidney shot once CS is over.

This is as good as it gets. This is all the more I can help you. You should read Demea's and Nooblestick's guides about talents as it appears you lack a great deal of understanding in which talents suck and how to make your build have synergy. Keep in mind some changes have been made in talents recently. (IE Nooble says don't get Cheat death, but that's when it sucked). Good luck and stop posting retarded builds don't bother to continue testing the one you've got. There are better talent builds and the one I posted this time is just one of them.

Also it seems that the first rogue build I posted is now using Shadowstep. He was probably just testing out hemo-maces. Hemo-maces is by no means the best build, and I already knew this. However, if it's one you like go at it and have fun.

Edited, Apr 7th 2008 11:10am by FelRogue

Yeah, I already know that. By the time I got to that talent I'd already written a wall of text, and as you demonstrated Demea, it would have taken another wall just to explain how it worked. So I just got careless in my answer for the sake of not making it even more boring to read. I think we've pretty much answered this question now though, and it's hopefully dead.

*edited for spelling

Edited, Apr 7th 2008 4:34pm by FelRogue