Have a shammy. Want to go pvp. DON'T WANT TO HEAL. So before I get much further... my questions.
Has it been done?
Can it be done?
Will it really work?
Is it fun?
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I too am in the same boat, and so, as much as I do not consider myself the end all be all of shamanism, I will put in what I have found and learned from other when asking similar questions. First however, I will directly answer your questions.
1. Yes, it has been done. Quite a bit actually.
2. Yes, although opinions vary as to its effectiveness compared to having the shammy be resto, or just ditching the shammy to go with another calss in your arena team.
3. It can. But again, it takes a specialized team makeup to allow the shammy (and his buddies) to shine.
4. Well, only you can answer that question for yourself...
As I said, I have asked similar q's of others. My enhance shammy just hit 70 not too long ago, and I have decided to take him the pvp route myself. I however am a headcase. The main/only reason I rolled a shamn is because (at the time) they were (are?) considered the weakest class available for both pvp and pve. Then, upon hitting 70, the pve wasnt true, but i was told that enhance shammies "suxxor" at PvP. so naturally, I have chosen to pvp. but thats me. most of the responses I got to q's went like this:
"Enhance shammy is easy to Pvp with - you just put windfury on both weapons and right click" - this particular one from a 1900 personal rated enhance shammy. lol. most of the others were rather similar....anyway, from what Ive gleaned, it goes something like this:
The basis of an enhance shammy in pvp is kinda like a cross between a dps warrior and a ret-pally in a raid. you dps, lots. You kill kill kill. SS FTW! But you also keep an eye on the healer, and toss off heals if necessary, you also toss remove poison if someone is getting pwned by a rogue. Totems will be cast and recast depending on where you move and whats needed and who's left alive, on both your team and theirs.
Elem is vastly the same escept you will do more nuking (and they are pimp nukers) from a distance, which means less totem work, but more often than not - more off heals as well.
Judicious use of bloodlust will make/break what people think of you as a shaman. They wont admit it, and they may not realize it, but the difference between a well timed bllodlust and your average every day bloodlust can be as small as a quarter of a second =P
And remember to always keep all your cc's up on all your targets at all times.
=) hehe
Im not sure if any of this is anything you may have already known, but I hope I helped in some small way. There are lots of really good people on this forum, so Im sure if some of my info is off a little, we will get it worked out, and Im further sure that even if my insight isnt the best that someone else will respond with a little gem of info soon. =)
cheers
1. Yes, it has been done. Quite a bit actually.
2. Yes, although opinions vary as to its effectiveness compared to having the shammy be resto, or just ditching the shammy to go with another calss in your arena team.
3. It can. But again, it takes a specialized team makeup to allow the shammy (and his buddies) to shine.
4. Well, only you can answer that question for yourself...
As I said, I have asked similar q's of others. My enhance shammy just hit 70 not too long ago, and I have decided to take him the pvp route myself. I however am a headcase. The main/only reason I rolled a shamn is because (at the time) they were (are?) considered the weakest class available for both pvp and pve. Then, upon hitting 70, the pve wasnt true, but i was told that enhance shammies "suxxor" at PvP. so naturally, I have chosen to pvp. but thats me. most of the responses I got to q's went like this:
"Enhance shammy is easy to Pvp with - you just put windfury on both weapons and right click" - this particular one from a 1900 personal rated enhance shammy. lol. most of the others were rather similar....anyway, from what Ive gleaned, it goes something like this:
The basis of an enhance shammy in pvp is kinda like a cross between a dps warrior and a ret-pally in a raid. you dps, lots. You kill kill kill. SS FTW! But you also keep an eye on the healer, and toss off heals if necessary, you also toss remove poison if someone is getting pwned by a rogue. Totems will be cast and recast depending on where you move and whats needed and who's left alive, on both your team and theirs.
Elem is vastly the same escept you will do more nuking (and they are pimp nukers) from a distance, which means less totem work, but more often than not - more off heals as well.
Judicious use of bloodlust will make/break what people think of you as a shaman. They wont admit it, and they may not realize it, but the difference between a well timed bllodlust and your average every day bloodlust can be as small as a quarter of a second =P
And remember to always keep all your cc's up on all your targets at all times.
=) hehe
Im not sure if any of this is anything you may have already known, but I hope I helped in some small way. There are lots of really good people on this forum, so Im sure if some of my info is off a little, we will get it worked out, and Im further sure that even if my insight isnt the best that someone else will respond with a little gem of info soon. =)
cheers
voydangel wrote:
The basis of an enhance shammy in pvp is kinda like a cross between a dps warrior and a ret-pally in a raid. you dps, lots. You kill kill kill. SS FTW! But you also keep an eye on the healer, and toss off heals if necessary, you also toss remove poison if someone is getting pwned by a rogue. Totems will be cast and recast depending on where you move and whats needed and who's left alive, on both your team and theirs.
Elem is vastly the same escept you will do more nuking (and they are pimp nukers) from a distance, which means less totem work, but more often than not - more off heals as well.
Elem is vastly the same escept you will do more nuking (and they are pimp nukers) from a distance, which means less totem work, but more often than not - more off heals as well.
The thing to understand about DPS Shaman is that they're just as group-intensive in PvP as they are in PvE. Left on its own, one-on-one, Shaman suck. Assuming equal gear and skill, there are just not a great many fights the DPS Shaman should win. What is true is that Enhancement/Elemental Shaman can both pump out massive amounts of DPS and will absolutely destroy people if they've got allies around to protect them and provide the control on the opposition that the Shaman themselves lack.
Unfortunately, anything a DPS Shaman can do in PvP another class can generally do better. Rogues and Warriors both pump out just as much DPS and provide stuns and healing debuffs to boot. Mages and Warlocks provide a lot of control in addition to their damage. And healers will be far more taxed to keep you alive than any of the previous classes in addition to the fact that you can't really save or protect your own healers the way those classes can due to a complete lack of CC and stuns.
If there is any reason for anyone to bring you along instead of any of those other classes, it is usually for Bloodlust or to give WF to Warriors/Ret Pallies. Our "off-heals", by the way, suck. If you are a DPS Shaman you are along to DPS.
It's not that they're completely incapable of being effective, but Shaman are the least played class overall and the least represented class at 2000+ for a good reason. And any you are likely to see past 2000+ are probably Resto.
Quote:
And remember to always keep all your cc's up on all your targets at all times.
=) hehe
=) hehe
You mean all the ones we don't have?
/agree with gaudion, those were definately some points that I failed to expound on enough.
And yes, our heals suck, and yes, the CC's that we don't have..lol
And yes, our heals suck, and yes, the CC's that we don't have..lol
Quote:
Have a shammy. Want to go pvp. DON'T WANT TO HEAL. So before I get much further... my questions.
Has it been done?
Can it be done?
Will it really work?
Is it fun?
Has it been done?
Can it be done?
Will it really work?
Is it fun?
Ok, touchy topic and angle, which opinions will vary. Either way I'm going to be bluntly honest on the reality of the matter, so read this accordingly.
First off, understand we (Shaman's...more specifically ENHANCEMENT shaman's) are WEAK in PvP (/shock). Gone are the days of Enhancement Shaman's doing this! Many PRE-pre-TBC shaman's bought into video's like this and saw it as "easy mode". This brought on a sharp influx of noob's that had tunnel vision regarding "I R MyT and pwerful C ma DMG pwning!". Also, keep in mind that from a "team play" aspect in BG's, even the player in the video was accused of NOT supporting team mates. And highlight reels never reflect the outcome of BG's victory.
MUCH of the game dynamics have changed since then, and shaman's haven't (thats NOT a good thing for us). Granted we still get 1 dimentional noobs assuming crap...HELL I'm sure every class gets that attitude regardless. Granted WE (shamans) have a different twist to contend with, fact is we're Hybrids...PERIOD! What does that mean tho?
Lets say your PVPing as a Lock (hypotetically speaking). No one EXPECTS you to heal, no surprise there since they can't aside from bandages and health stones. While its appreciated that they hand stones out occationally, its not expected. This is because they are ONE dimentional! They do DPS...PERIOD! Same with A LOT of "strong" PvP classes(odd?). If this is what you intend to do with shaman, YOUR PICKING THE WRONG CLASS!
Hybrids, can "do" various rolls at any given time (this is not taking into account spec or gearing at a given situation). In the case of WoW, generally speaking Hybrids can Heal, dps and/or Tank nearly as any moment, with very respectable results. In the case of Shaman's we can Heal AND dps. In terms of BG pvp, its our job to DO BOTH, regardless of spec!!
SO with that understanding, why are you playing shaman (keep that in mind)?
Now, assuming your playing a shaman for the RIGHT reasons, understand you NEVER GOING TO GET AWAY WITH PLAYING THIS CLASS WITHOUT HEALING! A "good" shaman in BG's knows when to support his/her team with heals, and when to blitz targets. This is HARD, but we are talking about being a "good" PvP shaman aren't we? We are NOT a strong PvP class that can go in Axes/Maces waving, and come out living in a 3v1/2v1 situation. We don't have the tools to do so, and even in 1v1 situations we're not as strong as other classes. BUT, add us with a partner or a few teammates, and that can change things dramatically. Even just ONE lesser heal at the right time on a warrior can change a situation instantly.
Regardless of spec, all shaman's should be doing "some" healing. NOW!! Here comes a very important point... EVERYONE EXPECTS YOU TO BE THERE PERSONAL HEAL BOT! This automatically makes them a FRICKEN SELFISH MORON! Of coruse, everyone thinks they are all that and then some, and they are god's gift to BG raids (Ya, I know you locks and rogues are reading this and are nodding,"Yup he's right!"). But, if someone is expecting a Enh shaman's MP in Enh gearing is going to last long enough to be a "personal" healer...they are up for a BIG disappointment. Needless to say, everyone "expects" this...and no matter what spec you pick your never going to get away from this (Welcome to the life of a hybrid!)!
Knowing your limits, dictates what you can do effectiely. Every spec should hand out occational heals when needed. Of course Resto shaman's "should" be healing A LOT, as their ability to take out targets quickly severly lacks. Logically, it would be stupid for a resto to thing they are going to try and be #1 on the dps chart, it would be equally stupid for Resto to NOT shock out a spell or take the oppertuntiy to cheap shot a group with a chain lightning either. This same logic applys to enh healing someone in a critical situation. Is a resto a roving chain lightning kill bot? Not likely. But, nothing pisses off a group of ppl, than being in a fray and trying to deal with a target at hand, and THEN get hit with a "extra" 1k dmg. Then to turn around and see that target get healed! Same with Enh or elem shaman's regarding doing dmg, and helping a teammate last just a tad longer. If you can ensure your teammate can kill their target and get to help you kill yours faster, just because you got one heal off...well thats just pimp.
Now, what does this all mean to you in summary;
Want to go pvp. DON'T WANT TO HEAL.-
Pick another class.
Has is been done?-
Very often.
Can it be done?-
Yes, no ones stopping you persay. Though if I was standing behind the person that chooses to play sham like that (hypothetically speaking), they won't be concious long :P
Will it really work? -
No
Is it fun?-
Subjective. Matters if you "really" like playing a true hybrid shaman. For me, as a Enh shaman...YES I do enjoy playing a "TRUE" shaman. I don't mince words and say its not fun being a very weak PvP class, but I do enjoy using what we have been given. I get off on showing off that I'm a good player, and I earn respect for it! Course, I'm pretty damn good on my warrior and a hand full of bandages too :P And I'm good INSPITE of the class, not BECAUSE of the class.
Edited, Apr 4th 2008 4:57am by gpyfb
1. It has been done, only in one case I know of, the other 3 full S3 Enh Shamans I have seen were Resto when they got their ratings and points.
2. It can be done, but don't expect to break 1700 this season, the only Shaman I know that did it as Enhancement the entire way need 4/5 S3 and all the Vindicator's items and the Battlemaster Trinket and the Insignia to break 1700 with his SL/SL Lock buddy, he eventually made it passed 1850, not sure if he ever broke 2000.
3. It_could_work but requires a ton of work and you and your partner need to be geared as best as possible.
4. Is it fun? Hell yeah, albeit a little frustrating at times, I PvPed at 1700 for a while, but all the Druid teams that wiped the floor with my Hunter buddy and me were really frustrating and the reason my Pally also quit on me.
2. It can be done, but don't expect to break 1700 this season, the only Shaman I know that did it as Enhancement the entire way need 4/5 S3 and all the Vindicator's items and the Battlemaster Trinket and the Insignia to break 1700 with his SL/SL Lock buddy, he eventually made it passed 1850, not sure if he ever broke 2000.
3. It_could_work but requires a ton of work and you and your partner need to be geared as best as possible.
4. Is it fun? Hell yeah, albeit a little frustrating at times, I PvPed at 1700 for a while, but all the Druid teams that wiped the floor with my Hunter buddy and me were really frustrating and the reason my Pally also quit on me.
All and all I think what I'm getting is 23 lvls of wasted time, unless I want to go resto and heal for pvp and in that case I could just re-spec my pally into Holy and save myself the time of lvling a Shammy. Tis pitty, I was really enjoying a shammy up to this point. I may lvl it just for fun, but think I'll scratch the idea of going pvp with her.
Thanks for the feedback. I've been reading the forums and it seems Blizzard needs to do something to make Shammys better. Hopefully with the new expansion at the latest. Hopefully with the next patch (seems they release one every 3 months or so which puts the next one Julyish, long before the Nov 4th release date of the expansion).
Thanks for the feedback.
GL
Thanks for the feedback. I've been reading the forums and it seems Blizzard needs to do something to make Shammys better. Hopefully with the new expansion at the latest. Hopefully with the next patch (seems they release one every 3 months or so which puts the next one Julyish, long before the Nov 4th release date of the expansion).
Thanks for the feedback.
GL
You could always do PvE, Enhance is near god mode in PvE.
Scholar
29 posts
Alot of pvp seems to depend on the match-up.
As my lvl 59 spriest, the ONLY class I try to avoid fighting is shaman. They have all the counters to kill me in no time. So in regards to arena it seems like it could be killer given the right team or a good setup (as someone previously stated)
As my lvl 59 spriest, the ONLY class I try to avoid fighting is shaman. They have all the counters to kill me in no time. So in regards to arena it seems like it could be killer given the right team or a good setup (as someone previously stated)
Others have covered the subject well.
If you want to be dual wield melee in PVP and not heal, play a rogue. The fixes to make enhancement shamans viable in PVP aren't coming quickly, and rogues have the Ability Toolset to make DW melee PVP work much better - especially if you don't intend to heal occasionally.
Edited, Apr 4th 2008 12:26pm by Axehilt
If you want to be dual wield melee in PVP and not heal, play a rogue. The fixes to make enhancement shamans viable in PVP aren't coming quickly, and rogues have the Ability Toolset to make DW melee PVP work much better - especially if you don't intend to heal occasionally.
Edited, Apr 4th 2008 12:26pm by Axehilt
SixthAcolyte wrote:
Alot of pvp seems to depend on the match-up.
As my lvl 59 spriest, the ONLY class I try to avoid fighting is shaman. They have all the counters to kill me in no time. So in regards to arena it seems like it could be killer given the right team or a good setup (as someone previously stated)
As my lvl 59 spriest, the ONLY class I try to avoid fighting is shaman. They have all the counters to kill me in no time. So in regards to arena it seems like it could be killer given the right team or a good setup (as someone previously stated)
Give it some time. As a Resto Shaman PvP-ing at 70, I fear a good Spriest more than I fear most other things at the moment. Aside from the obvious MB, I'm not sure what it is about them but they just completely destroy me.
By comparison, the four specs/classes I find it easiest to weather are Feral Druids, Ret Pallies, Rogues, and (guess what) Enhancement Shaman.
I'm going to start off that I have not done any lvl 70 pvp or arena with my enhancement shaman. I know that when people talk about doing lvl 70 pvp they are talking about arena and how we enhancement shamans suck. So, I'm not going to comment on that situation.
I will say that I stopped at every x9 lvl bg along the way to 68 and I've loved it, especially when I got WF. Once I got over the fact that I die A LOT and come ot expect it, I started running in and bashing faces and shocking the hell out of people. I just rez, kill, and die... repeat over and over and over. I find that in most eos's, ab's, and wsg's I'm near the top in amount of kills, and that's not just cherry picking the ones that others are fighting.
If you gear up properly and learn your role as an enhancement shaman (DPS, drop totems, and off heal) you will have fun. At least I did.
Finally, from what I've read here, I am working on gearing up before I hit lvl 70 to try arena. I'm close to having enough honor to buy my S1 weapons and then there are the new pvp sets that you can get from various out land factions if you are honored with them.
As I said, I'm reserving my judgement on arena play for when I get there. But I am not going to be stupid and walk into the Arena wearing outland greens and blues with ZERO resilience and expect to do anything but beef up someone's rating. I'm sure I'll do that anyway, but I hope to atleast have some fun with it. That being said, I thoroughly love my enhancement shaman for bg pvping.
I will say that I stopped at every x9 lvl bg along the way to 68 and I've loved it, especially when I got WF. Once I got over the fact that I die A LOT and come ot expect it, I started running in and bashing faces and shocking the hell out of people. I just rez, kill, and die... repeat over and over and over. I find that in most eos's, ab's, and wsg's I'm near the top in amount of kills, and that's not just cherry picking the ones that others are fighting.
If you gear up properly and learn your role as an enhancement shaman (DPS, drop totems, and off heal) you will have fun. At least I did.
Finally, from what I've read here, I am working on gearing up before I hit lvl 70 to try arena. I'm close to having enough honor to buy my S1 weapons and then there are the new pvp sets that you can get from various out land factions if you are honored with them.
As I said, I'm reserving my judgement on arena play for when I get there. But I am not going to be stupid and walk into the Arena wearing outland greens and blues with ZERO resilience and expect to do anything but beef up someone's rating. I'm sure I'll do that anyway, but I hope to atleast have some fun with it. That being said, I thoroughly love my enhancement shaman for bg pvping.
Kellindross wrote:
Finally, from what I've read here, I am working on gearing up before I hit lvl 70 to try arena. I'm close to having enough honor to buy my S1 weapons and then there are the new pvp sets that you can get from various out land factions if you are honored with them.
As I said, I'm reserving my judgement on arena play for when I get there. But I am not going to be stupid and walk into the Arena wearing outland greens and blues with ZERO resilience and expect to do anything but beef up someone's rating. I'm sure I'll do that anyway, but I hope to atleast have some fun with it. That being said, I thoroughly love my enhancement shaman for bg pvping.
As I said, I'm reserving my judgement on arena play for when I get there. But I am not going to be stupid and walk into the Arena wearing outland greens and blues with ZERO resilience and expect to do anything but beef up someone's rating. I'm sure I'll do that anyway, but I hope to atleast have some fun with it. That being said, I thoroughly love my enhancement shaman for bg pvping.
Sounds like you've got a good attitude about the whole thing; you should do just fine.
The fact is that everyone gets crushed when they first start out in the arena. First, your gear needs to catch up with everyone. Then, once your gear catches up and you actually live longer than 30 seconds, your skill needs to increase. No matter how good you think you are, to quote Illidan: "You are not prepared." The arena is an entirely new animal for people who have never done it before.
After gear and skill are taken into account, however... the only thing that is left is class and team matrixes. And whether any of us like it or not, some classes are just naturally more inclined to succeed in certain areas of the game than others. There is a "glass ceiling" so to speak, and when it comes to melee DPS, Shaman have a lower ceiling than Warriors or Rogues.
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