Quote:
Why would you use rain of fire?
I was told that SoC goes through walls and things.... and could aggro mobs that were not part of the group we were AOEing. I agree, otherwise, SoC is awesome for pulls like on the steps in kara.
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I was told that SoC goes through walls and things.... and could aggro mobs that were not part of the group we were AOEing. I agree, otherwise, SoC is awesome for pulls like on the steps in kara.
In 2.3 or 2.4 they changed it to line of sight (LoS), so thats not a problem anymore.
rain of fire is handy to set your seeds off together, most kara trash i cast 3 seeds and then rain of fire. rain of fire ticks for around 500 damage so by the time it ticks the second time all seeds have gone off for thier 1500ish each, this way will improve your dps by ensuring your seeds explode before targeted dps has killed some of your targets. (on illhoof just spam seeds though)
as if you need higher DPS on AoE trash.
as if you need higher DPS on AoE trash.
tzsjynx wrote:
Even Affliction has to draw a line somewhere between PVP and PVE -- you cannot be top-dog at both.
I lol'd. Many of the top raiders in the game are S1/S2 gladiators and have 3 2k+ teams in S3.
lol... top raiders of What?
S2/S3 Gives great Spell and great HP. Felweave gives decent Crit. That's it.
That being said, a Kara'd/Gruuled/SSC'd Destro Lock is just as viable as a top-notch S3 Affliction Lock. That's not figuring in the fact that I correlate S1 to T4, S2 to T5, and S3 to T6.
If you want to be Top in PVP you need the PVP stats in your accessory slots. You'll also need any defensive/survivability and mobility/logistics related talents.
If you want to be Top PVE you NEED +hit in your accessory slots (and Pre-T6 you'll need Hit Gems if you want to wear S3.) Your HP doesn't need to go over 8-9k unbuffed, and you're looking for raw DPS output, mana control and threat mitigation.
Technically, a very active player can have 2 sets of equipment, 2 sets of knowledge, 2 specs, and be willing to Regem often.
Realistically, you cannot be Top-Dog in both PVP and PVE...
S2/S3 Gives great Spell and great HP. Felweave gives decent Crit. That's it.
That being said, a Kara'd/Gruuled/SSC'd Destro Lock is just as viable as a top-notch S3 Affliction Lock. That's not figuring in the fact that I correlate S1 to T4, S2 to T5, and S3 to T6.
If you want to be Top in PVP you need the PVP stats in your accessory slots. You'll also need any defensive/survivability and mobility/logistics related talents.
If you want to be Top PVE you NEED +hit in your accessory slots (and Pre-T6 you'll need Hit Gems if you want to wear S3.) Your HP doesn't need to go over 8-9k unbuffed, and you're looking for raw DPS output, mana control and threat mitigation.
Technically, a very active player can have 2 sets of equipment, 2 sets of knowledge, 2 specs, and be willing to Regem often.
Realistically, you cannot be Top-Dog in both PVP and PVE...
1700 DPS on Illhoof :P and for the guy that does SoC*3 the RoF, try putting SoC on the non-targeted mob, like for us skull.X.box.triangle.diamond.circle is our kill order so I work backwards(assuming AoE, no CC) I'll do circle.diamond.triangle.box.X then drain soul the skull if its still alive.
You have better gear than I do, but I still have 795-810 bonus spell damage (695 unbuffed/minionless). It seems like you should mix up your gear (PVP and PVE) to get more spell damage, as suggested already. It also seems like your critical chance is pretty low, so is that something about which you care?
The needs for PVP are not the same for PVE, as you may know, so it would not be a bad idea to exchange some of that resilience and stamina for what you need to take down that raid boss. If anything, you could keep two sets; you're not a tank so you really dont need over 10,000 health for raiding if you have a good group.
I would take out the points in Healthstone, Grim Reach, and Improved Curse of Agony, to go toward Demonic Aegis and Fel Intellect/Stamina. I've never been pure Affliction or had any points in Destruction to really comment other than that. The bonus to Fel Armor will stack with your Drain Life and give you an additional 120 spell damage.
The needs for PVP are not the same for PVE, as you may know, so it would not be a bad idea to exchange some of that resilience and stamina for what you need to take down that raid boss. If anything, you could keep two sets; you're not a tank so you really dont need over 10,000 health for raiding if you have a good group.
I would take out the points in Healthstone, Grim Reach, and Improved Curse of Agony, to go toward Demonic Aegis and Fel Intellect/Stamina. I've never been pure Affliction or had any points in Destruction to really comment other than that. The bonus to Fel Armor will stack with your Drain Life and give you an additional 120 spell damage.
Quote:
for the guy that does SoC*3 the RoF, try putting SoC on the non-targeted mob, like for us skull.X.box.triangle.diamond.circle is our kill order so I work backwards(assuming AoE, no CC) I'll do circle.diamond.triangle.box.X then drain soul the skull if its still alive.
Sorry allow me to clarify, the point i was trying to make wasnt that my seeds went off early, quite the contrary. After 3 seeds are placed chances are one or two of the mobs are close to being killed by targeted DPSers (see melee etc) therefore it is better for you to ensure the seeds you have placed are detonated quickly to ensure they hit more targets.
Of course this will vary with the HP of the mobs, sometimes its nice to throw out loads and hope you can be spam healed through the chaos.
If you were to put SoC on the targeted mobs chances are after 3 of them you wouldnt last very long to use rain of fire, at least without an imba paladin tank.
6 posts
Unfortunately verb you have painted yourself into a corner by going dreadweave instead of felweave so until you get some t4 gear or crafted items your stuck affliction - that said your current gear is plenty serviceable.
All you need to do is get gladiators war staff or staff of infinite mysteries and get all available enchants and buffs eqippped with +hit rating gems.
Next get rid of the pvp trinket - is useless in a raid environment - focus on a trinket that will get you more spell damage. also get a wand eqippped
Also investigate your scryer inscription vendor for buff @ honored as well as shatar quartermaster for glyph buff. find someone that can make you some superior wizard oil and keep on you during raids - will add +42 spell damage.
These items should put your spell dam up around 800+ with with fel armor and you should be flirting with the top spot.
Be on the lookout for t4 gear in kara to replace your dreadweave stuff and your crit strike rating should climb and then you can go for full destro lock and you will own the damage meters.
good luck and happy hunting
All you need to do is get gladiators war staff or staff of infinite mysteries and get all available enchants and buffs eqippped with +hit rating gems.
Next get rid of the pvp trinket - is useless in a raid environment - focus on a trinket that will get you more spell damage. also get a wand eqippped
Also investigate your scryer inscription vendor for buff @ honored as well as shatar quartermaster for glyph buff. find someone that can make you some superior wizard oil and keep on you during raids - will add +42 spell damage.
These items should put your spell dam up around 800+ with with fel armor and you should be flirting with the top spot.
Be on the lookout for t4 gear in kara to replace your dreadweave stuff and your crit strike rating should climb and then you can go for full destro lock and you will own the damage meters.
good luck and happy hunting
17 posts
TBH you will not be top dps in kara unless you outgear your sp and mages. FSW is a greater boost to dps for SP's than it is for locks. T5 locks own and T6 we have to learn to share again with rogues/fury warr and hunters.Don't worry about topping the mtr's, spend your time in kara learing the key aspect of wow raiding, don't stand in bad things and don't pull aggro. But mainly don't stand in bad things, and you will be a pro.
Edited, Apr 18th 2008 4:09am by CavityTom
Edited, Apr 18th 2008 4:09am by CavityTom
Warlocks are less about topping charts than they are about boosting other classes DPS and providing utility to a raid. You shouldn't aim to top the charts. You should aim to be the warlock that the raid can't live without.
Although they can "boost" the entire team on Boss Mobs, I'm going to have to disagree with that.
Not only is it easy to to Top Damage in Kara if you're equally geared with everyone else, it IS you're primary job. Only certain Specs (mainly Malediction) are truely worth debuffing over damaging, and depending on a 10-man makeup, if you have any decent Spell you're better off Dooming.
On 25-mans, absolutely, but 10-mans? Just check the numbers when you go, it may be worth your while to not even Shadow/Ele at all.
Honestly the best reason to have a Lock on raids like Kara is for the Summon, the SS, and the Healthstones. Then again, most support/dps bring something bigger to the buff/logistics/consumables table than that - save the Summon which can prove to be a godsend.
Edited, Apr 18th 2008 2:48pm by tzsjynx
Not only is it easy to to Top Damage in Kara if you're equally geared with everyone else, it IS you're primary job. Only certain Specs (mainly Malediction) are truely worth debuffing over damaging, and depending on a 10-man makeup, if you have any decent Spell you're better off Dooming.
On 25-mans, absolutely, but 10-mans? Just check the numbers when you go, it may be worth your while to not even Shadow/Ele at all.
Honestly the best reason to have a Lock on raids like Kara is for the Summon, the SS, and the Healthstones. Then again, most support/dps bring something bigger to the buff/logistics/consumables table than that - save the Summon which can prove to be a godsend.
Edited, Apr 18th 2008 2:48pm by tzsjynx
Scholar
30 posts
Quote:
Honestly the best reason to have a Lock on raids like Kara is for the Summon, the SS, and the Healthstones. Then again, most support/dps bring something bigger to the buff/logistics/consumables table than that - save the Summon which can prove to be a godsend.
Spoken like a true mage.
1) Warlocks with our imp out have an amazing buff for the team specifically the tank.
2) We also have CoS and CoE for the mages, locks and shadow priests.
3) We also have the best AoE in the game
4) We have CC for daemons and for humans, last I checked there where a few daemons in Kara.
5) We also have great DPS, I out DPS mages more of the time unless they out gear me.
So to say that we are only good for Summons's is simply a statement from someone who knows nothing about our class.
One could always reply to that with the best thing mages bring is mana biscuits.
Quote:
Although they can "boost" the entire team on Boss Mobs, I'm going to have to disagree with that.
Not only is it easy to to Top Damage in Kara if you're equally geared with everyone else, it IS you're primary job. Only certain Specs (mainly Malediction) are truely worth debuffing over damaging, and depending on a 10-man makeup, if you have any decent Spell you're better off Dooming.
On 25-mans, absolutely, but 10-mans? Just check the numbers when you go, it may be worth your while to not even Shadow/Ele at all.
Honestly the best reason to have a Lock on raids like Kara is for the Summon, the SS, and the Healthstones. Then again, most support/dps bring something bigger to the buff/logistics/consumables table than that - save the Summon which can prove to be a godsend.
Not only is it easy to to Top Damage in Kara if you're equally geared with everyone else, it IS you're primary job. Only certain Specs (mainly Malediction) are truely worth debuffing over damaging, and depending on a 10-man makeup, if you have any decent Spell you're better off Dooming.
On 25-mans, absolutely, but 10-mans? Just check the numbers when you go, it may be worth your while to not even Shadow/Ele at all.
Honestly the best reason to have a Lock on raids like Kara is for the Summon, the SS, and the Healthstones. Then again, most support/dps bring something bigger to the buff/logistics/consumables table than that - save the Summon which can prove to be a godsend.
This is one of the worst things I've read.
reroll BM hunter
Ya'lls replys are ludacris... like the rapper =D
First off --
This little list is fun-filled because you just tried to disprove me by listing the same set of things I listed? There are 2 spots in Kara that I CC (Both sets of weak imps that my RaidTeam generally doesn't even want me to anymore.) There are no appropriate times inside Kara for Fear to be used, and I have never once had a request to use Succubus - honestly I don't even know if Seduce would work there. CC in Kara = Priests, Huntards and sometimes Mages. OT Everything else.
My POINT in my post was that we "also have great DPS." A good Warlock does NOT attend raids for "support" they attend raids to BURN THINGS. Outdamaging other DPS Classes by 10-15% by definition means you are a DPS, not a support class.
We have the best AE in the game? ROFL? Thanks... go run numbers on Mages and come back with a final report. We AE Illhoof because we don't run out of Mana (and Destro has Nether Protection) - nothing to do with the DPS of our Area of Effect spells in general.
Finally even though I've already said this once, in 'most' 10-mans a good Affliction Lock will do more for the entire raid if he Dooms instead of Shadows/Elements (even Malediction.) There are certain Bosses where this is exceptionally true, and others where it is never true, but Affliction Warlocks are not generally brought primarily for CoS/CoE. 25-Mans is a different story.
Its glaringly obvious you all didn't read my post in full and didn't comprehend what my point was. My point is simply this in response to Tayron - Locks should NOT disreguard Damage Output and justify their lack of Damage with the thought "I'm here for Support," as a Warlock's *primary* job on a Raid is DAMAGE.
Edited, Apr 19th 2008 12:40am by tzsjynx
First off --
Quote:
1) Warlocks with our imp out have an amazing buff for the team specifically the tank.
2) We also have CoS and CoE for the mages, locks and shadow priests.
3) We also have the best AoE in the game
4) We have CC for daemons and for humans, last I checked there where a few daemons in Kara.
5) We also have great DPS, I out DPS mages more of the time unless they out gear me.
2) We also have CoS and CoE for the mages, locks and shadow priests.
3) We also have the best AoE in the game
4) We have CC for daemons and for humans, last I checked there where a few daemons in Kara.
5) We also have great DPS, I out DPS mages more of the time unless they out gear me.
This little list is fun-filled because you just tried to disprove me by listing the same set of things I listed? There are 2 spots in Kara that I CC (Both sets of weak imps that my RaidTeam generally doesn't even want me to anymore.) There are no appropriate times inside Kara for Fear to be used, and I have never once had a request to use Succubus - honestly I don't even know if Seduce would work there. CC in Kara = Priests, Huntards and sometimes Mages. OT Everything else.
My POINT in my post was that we "also have great DPS." A good Warlock does NOT attend raids for "support" they attend raids to BURN THINGS. Outdamaging other DPS Classes by 10-15% by definition means you are a DPS, not a support class.
We have the best AE in the game? ROFL? Thanks... go run numbers on Mages and come back with a final report. We AE Illhoof because we don't run out of Mana (and Destro has Nether Protection) - nothing to do with the DPS of our Area of Effect spells in general.
Finally even though I've already said this once, in 'most' 10-mans a good Affliction Lock will do more for the entire raid if he Dooms instead of Shadows/Elements (even Malediction.) There are certain Bosses where this is exceptionally true, and others where it is never true, but Affliction Warlocks are not generally brought primarily for CoS/CoE. 25-Mans is a different story.
Its glaringly obvious you all didn't read my post in full and didn't comprehend what my point was. My point is simply this in response to Tayron - Locks should NOT disreguard Damage Output and justify their lack of Damage with the thought "I'm here for Support," as a Warlock's *primary* job on a Raid is DAMAGE.
Edited, Apr 19th 2008 12:40am by tzsjynx
Oh ya and
I'd have to say that, support wise, I'll have to agree with you! =)
Quote:
One could always reply to that with the best thing mages bring is mana biscuits.
I'd have to say that, support wise, I'll have to agree with you! =)
Scholar
30 posts
Quote:
We have the best AE in the game? ROFL? Thanks... go run numbers on Mages and come back with a final report. We AE Illhoof because we don't run out of Mana (and Destro has Nether Protection) - nothing to do with the DPS of our Area of Effect spells in general.
SoC is the best AoE in the game period. Feel free to read the other mages cry about it here:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=4489EA117C32C6927565D506314A46F8?topicId=5103810374&postId=51032612335&sid=1
or the sake of comparison, let's take a mage and a warlock with equivalent gear.
Warlock: +1400 damage (including buffs/fel armor) and 22% crit (with SoC). 0/21/40 Destruction spec.
Mage: +1300 damage and 25% crit (with Arc Explosion). 2/48/11 Fire spec.
Seed of Corruption (we'll ignore the DD damage and only calculate the AOE). Debuffs typically don't get put on AOE mobs so the only multipliers in effect are crit (1.11) and Demonic Sacrifice (1.15).
AOE Base: 1200
AOE Gear: round(0.2 * 1400) = 280
Avg Damage: (1200 + 280) * 1.11 * 1.15 = 1889.22
Arcane Explosion Multipliers in effect are crit (1.125) and Playing With Fire (1.03).
Base: 392
Gear: round(0.2128 * 1300) = 277
Avg Damage: (392 + 277) * 1.125 * 1.03 = 775.20
SoC DPS: 1889.22 / 2.0 = 944.61 per target
Arc Explosion DPS: 775.20 / 1.5 = 516.8 per target
SoC DPM: 1889.22 / 822 = 2.2983 per target
Arc Explosion DPM: 775.20 / (445 * 0.9) = 1.9356 per target
Quote:
This is one of the worst things I've read.
I lol'd at that :O
Karazhan make's me happy when i see 30k shadowbolts <3. Tell me another damage class that can (possibly) hit 100k damage in 10 seconds. (very lucky if you got 3-4 crits in a row during curator's weakness)
Lock's also do well in Mechanar heroic... although i've only hit a 22k shadowbolt there.. /cry
Being a destro lock is boring hitting shadow bolt over and over again, only thing that makes it fun is the /recount addon ^^
MrDallas wrote:
In 2.3 or 2.4 they changed it to line of sight (LoS), so thats not a problem anymore.
Was in 2.3, and I'm pretty sure we all <3 bliz for doing that :D (outside of some pvpers I've met :P)
If you're comparing SoC to AE, you might also want to mention the AoE damage cap for both spells. You'll really notice it in MgT when your SoC explodes and does 3-400 damage to the worms because there's so damn many of them.
Sorry my l2lock comment got sub default, but it's only true. I don't know how any Affliction lock can't be numero uno. Had a friend in most of the crafted stuff when we first started running Kara as an Aff Lock and he just pwnd everyone on the meters. The only one that gave him competition was a Rogue and that was because you can't do spell dmg to the worms after Curator. My friend did the same thing in Gruul's, topped the meters every time. MOAR DOTS!!
AstarintheDruid there are multiple places in KARA where this is the case. As the cap is breached, instead of deducting a proper % and allowing the cast to do the cap damage equally spread, the damage of the AoE will be halfed and therefor the max number of targets doubled. Passing that, quartered and quadrupled, eighthed and multiplied by eight, 1/16 x16, ect ect.
This means that exceeding what is essentially the max number of targets will result in a halving of damage output.
While currently ArcEx and SoC are close on the damage cap (ArcEx Having been recently upped), when you look at the number of targets required to reach that same cap it is much higher.
Illhoof is a good example in which there are certain phases where I've been working with 1/4 damage output, at a point that I have been reported that Mage ArcEx is still doing full damage.
Run your numbers again except quarter the damage of SoC's explosion. Yes very situational, but these 'situations' are the point of AoE in the first place.
That being said, SoC is a somewhat situational yet very very powerful spell. What it boasts in power, howerver, it totally lacks in control.
Having both Mage and Warlock I'll always consider my Mage the king of AEs, having multiple agro drops, logistical advantages, saftey buttons, and control.
This means that exceeding what is essentially the max number of targets will result in a halving of damage output.
While currently ArcEx and SoC are close on the damage cap (ArcEx Having been recently upped), when you look at the number of targets required to reach that same cap it is much higher.
Illhoof is a good example in which there are certain phases where I've been working with 1/4 damage output, at a point that I have been reported that Mage ArcEx is still doing full damage.
Run your numbers again except quarter the damage of SoC's explosion. Yes very situational, but these 'situations' are the point of AoE in the first place.
That being said, SoC is a somewhat situational yet very very powerful spell. What it boasts in power, howerver, it totally lacks in control.
Having both Mage and Warlock I'll always consider my Mage the king of AEs, having multiple agro drops, logistical advantages, saftey buttons, and control.
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