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How can i become #1 DPS in Kara?Follow

#1 Apr 02 2008 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I ran kara yesterday and i was number 3 in dps, 1st was fury warrior 17% 2nd was shadow priest 16% 3rd was me 15.6%. I am affliction and i want to be #1 how can i be 1st in dps?

This is my guy.. i know i need a few more things

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Gurubashi&n=Verbal

This is my plan get venge gloves ( + 20 spell damage ) . socket chest 12 spell and 2x 9 spell damage. hope dagger drops from prince ( +40 spelldamage )and have nightbane off hand . runecloth pants ( 20 stam +35 spell ) or something.

Is destruction better to go for kara?
#2 Apr 02 2008 at 5:14 PM Rating: Default
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1,450 posts
Solo it
#3REDACTED, Posted: Apr 02 2008 at 7:13 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Best advice I can give you is take out all your points in destro, max out fel intellect and demonic aegis, then put 1 point in shadow embrace and the rest in suppression. Then use drain life after you put all your dots up. It should do 600+ per tick.
#4 Apr 02 2008 at 10:00 PM Rating: Decent
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266 posts
0/21/40 SuccySac/Shadow and Flame > warriors and priests easily
#5 Apr 02 2008 at 10:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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992 posts
DPS on trash is for e-peen only and holds no real benefit except if you're showing off. A class which predominantly deals damage through DoTs doesn't work too well on mobs that drop within ten seconds of pulling. Reset the damage meters when you come up to bosses and see what happens then.

Your gear is... workable with some obvious holes. The fact that it's almost all PvP gear is the main flaw: the only fight I know of which NEEDS lots of HP is Naj'entus in Black Temple or Leotheras the Blind in SSC and with that much PvP gear you'll not be getting there any time soon. Your gem sockets are totally empty, which is disturbing to say the least. Socket them all with +8 Spell Hit Great Dawnstones. Blue Gems look to be expensive but they're actually not that bad: I replaced something like 11 crappy greens with nice blues last night and it came to only about 550G.

Your trinkets are a green quest reward and a crappy 65 green. Get some new ones ASAP.

Your Spell Hit is the only thing holding you back on bosses: 16 Hit Rating is atrocious. There are lots of easy upgrades in early Karazhan for all of it: Handwraps of Flowing Thought off of Attumen are a nice item. After you hit 202 Spell Hit you can focus on +damage.

Lastly, your build is pretty solid. I'd take the points out of Suppression and Improved Curse of Agony and put three into Malediction and one into Shadow Embrace to make THIS. Don't listen to the maniac who recommends spamming Drain Life with no points in Destruction, suffice to say he's clearly insane. Maxing out Suppression might be the worst possible build idea ever.

Quote:
0/21/40 SuccySac/Shadow and Flame > Warriors and Priests easily.


His Spell Critical Strike Rating and Spell Damage are nowhere near high enough for a Destruction build.
#6 Apr 03 2008 at 12:15 AM Rating: Default
A balance needs to be played here, and on a realistic level this whole thing is a numbers game. Although Destruction will require a total revamp of your character, drastically alter your strengths and weaknesses, and turn your gameplay into a more cut-and-dry DPS style, it is a very viable option if you can get your Crit to about 15% unaltered and get near that 202 Hitmark (reguardless of Spell.) The Crit% is much easier to attain, so for this option your main goal is going to be the most amount of SpellHit you can find.

With your Low SpellDmg and the fact that you wish to stay Affliction, I would say to place SpellHit and SpellDmg on about the same priority level (seeing as you have pretty low numbers in both.) On Boss fights, DoTs make up for about ~45% of your Damage, ~52% if you use Doom (and not Shadows), leaving still a huge percent of the damage on long bossfights dependant on SpellHit (even with Suppression) and a decent area to work with SpellCrit. SpellCrit will be the lowest stat to look for here, although it still can play a role in boosting your overall PVE DPS. With the fact that Haste now works on GCD, be sure to note that even for Affliction this is a very important stat as well.

Hitting the 202 SpellCap will be difficult in T4/Kara/Gruuls, but it's doable. I still, however, suggest finding the balance for Hit and Spell -- You're gonna want about 120-150 Hit and 800 Dmg unbuffed. When you reach that we can get to talking again.

Also, /Agreed on what ecirphsoj had to say almost entirely.

My suggestion - use your first 41 Badges to get Icon of the Silver Crescent, try to get your hands on The Staff of Infinate Mysteries, , Boots of Fortelling, and the Trial-Fire Trousers out of Kara. Where there's Yellow socket get "Great Dawnstone" for Spell Hit, where there's a Red socket get "Veiled Noble Topaz" for Spell and Hit. Any Blues you got go with "Glowing Nightseye."

Take advantage of your Hat's Meta socket. You can buy a decent Meta off AH or from Jewelcrafters and they can be gamechanging.
#7 Apr 03 2008 at 12:42 AM Rating: Decent
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992 posts
Quote:
My suggestion - use your first 41 Badges to get Icon of the Silver Crescent, try to get your hands on The Staff of Infinate Mysteries, , Boots of Fortelling, and the Trial-Fire Trousers out of Kara. Where there's Yellow socket get "Great Dawnstone" for Spell Hit, where there's a Red socket get "Veiled Noble Topaz" for Spell and Hit. Any Blues you got go with "Glowing Nightseye."


Since he seems to be more PvP-focused at the moment he could get the Jewel of Infinite Possibilities from Netherspite and the Merciless Gladiator's Spellblade, which has nice Spell Damage and good amount of Hit.
#8REDACTED, Posted: Apr 03 2008 at 12:42 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If your not getting 1st in DPS in kara as a lock you should smack yourself. AoE pulls + Illhoof + SoC = top dps right there. For the others to be catching up with you means you are putting out terrible dps or just don't know the fights. Maybe a good mage can beat you out because of there AoE as well but fury war and shadow priest? Lets hope there in T6 or something to be putting out that much more dps.
#9 Apr 03 2008 at 1:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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992 posts
Quote:
If your not getting 1st in DPS in kara as a lock you should smack yourself. AoE pulls + Illhoof + SoC = top dps right there. For the others to be catching up with you means you are putting out terrible dps or just don't know the fights. Maybe a good Mage can beat you out because of there AoE as well but a Fury Warrior and shadow priest? Let's hope there in T6 or something to be putting out that much more DPS.


Whoa, chill out a little. Just because he's in Karazhan doesn't mean he's cleared the entire thing (and as such might not be up to Illhoof, hell, my guild doesn't even try Illhoof on the first night, we stop just after Curator), there are damage meters which are buggy on AoE pulls and we have no idea how often the person with the meter was resetting it or of the accuracy of the meter. The fact that you're basically calling him a ****** because he was 1.4% DPS lower than someone is pretty obvious proof that you're clinically insane.

Not only that but a couple of AoE pulls (not more than ten in the whole place if you clear and step carefully) won't always make up for the fact that an Affliction Warlock's damage SUCKS on trash. If you try and Full-DoT everything because you're misinformed or inexperienced you could end up at half the damage of others, and judging from his trinkets and lack of gems he's not very experienced. Being so condescending is not a recipe for widespread adoration.

About the only valid point you raised in that entire post is that the Shadow Priest and Fury Warrior might have outgeared him. Don't feel down and be happy you're enjoying raiding, Verbal =)

Edited, Apr 3rd 2008 5:40am by ecirphsoj
#10 Apr 03 2008 at 5:03 AM Rating: Good
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1,262 posts
If they are getting past Huntsman, then there are AOE clears on the stairs that SoC should rape, no? I have only done Kara on my mage (so far).... I should be hitting kara on my lock this week or next.
#11 Apr 03 2008 at 5:50 AM Rating: Good
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1,729 posts
Quote:
Best advice I can give you is take out all your points in destro, max out fel intellect and demonic aegis, then put 1 point in shadow embrace and the rest in suppression. Then use drain life after you put all your dots up. It should do 600+ per tick.


First off, ignore that.

Quote:
0/21/40 SuccySac/Shadow and Flame > warriors and priests easily


and that, you don't have the hit for a destro build.

You gotta keep your points in Imp SB and Bane. Those are bread and butter for any raiding lock. Also, never use Drain Life in a Raid unless your just not getting heals. I generally never have too, and if I think I do, as soon as I do, I get a heal. There was another poster that told you to take points out of suppression, ignore him also. With your horrible hit, you really do need it mased out. You could drop Imp CoA, if your running with a SPriest you should be casting CoS anyway. I'd also consider maxing out Imp Drain Soul as the threat reduction is great.

For further advice on how to max out your DPS, need to know your general Spell Rotation on trash and bosses. Generally, on trash, CoS, Corr, SB Spam until it's dead. If it's slightly tougher trash, maybe CoS, UA, Corr then SB Spam. On bosses, keep all your DoTs up, refresh them as soon as they wear off, never before. SB Spam the rest of the time. Trinket as often as possible if they add Spell Dam. I generally don't use flasks in Kara anymore, but sometimes will eat some Blakened Basilisk or use a superior wizard oil.

Hopefully this helps you out, good luck in your next Kara.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2008 9:54am by Lathais
#12 Apr 03 2008 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
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308 posts
Drain life is crap for DPS.

Take up Tailoring and work on the shadoweave set. Those pieces will give you far more spell damage than some of the PVP pieces you are wearing. But Kudos on getting those, they fill holes nicely.

You have all that PVP gear but not the Gladiator's Spellblade? For shame. Get it, its far better than what you have and it will last you a while.

Where's your offhand? Where's you wand? You're missing out on some more spell damage from those slots. There's a PVP reward wand you can buy in Zangarmarsh that gives like +15 spell damage.

You are also missing sockets and enchants. There's plenty you can do to improve your +spell damage and +spell hit without getting new gear. Work on Revered with scryers and get the shoulder enchant. Also, if you took up tailoring like I suggested, you could pick up Mystic Spellthread for +25 more spell damage.

Your talents pretty much look OK. I think you just need to get your spell damage up to around 1k, and get hit capped as soon as you can.

Keep all your dots except immolate up at all times, and spam shadowbolts. On trash you can just put up 1-2 dots, like corruption and CoA. The ticks still proc nightfall, which improves your DPS.
#13 Apr 03 2008 at 7:29 AM Rating: Decent
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992 posts
Quote:
If they are getting past Huntsman, then there are AOE clears on the stairs that SoC should rape, no? I have only done Kara on my mage (so far).... I should be hitting kara on my lock this week or next.


True, but it's unlikely a few pulls on which we have an edge over more bursty classes (hell, Whirlwind and Sweeping Strikes aren't to be underestimated) will make up for our lack of Damage Done on most trash.
#14 Apr 03 2008 at 7:37 AM Rating: Default
Quote:
Since he seems to be more PvP-focused at the moment he could get the Jewel of Infinite Possibilities from Netherspite and the Merciless Gladiator's Spellblade, which has nice Spell Damage and good amount of Hit.


Even Affliction has to draw a line somewhere between PVP and PVE -- you cannot be top-dog at both.

Spellblade is definatly > Staff of Infinate Mysteries, it's also more work. IMHO the "best" way to gear up quickly is to aquire your gear from different aspects of the game, taking the best pieces from each part. If hes still active in PVP then he can actually benefit from using the SpellBlade and a Badge offHand (if he cannot get the Staff before then.) Also, Prince's Dagger's another excellent alternative - in fact in PVE a better one... which I why I wouldnt suggest him blowing his Points on it.

Since he's running Karas, he's already getting Badges. He needs to replace that PVP Trinket ASAP (at least while hes doing PVE.) That's an assured upgrade - with 2 Kara Runs Under the belt he can afford it - that NEEDS to happen.
#15 Apr 03 2008 at 9:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Also, Prince's Dagger's another excellent alternative - in fact in PVE a better one... which I why I wouldn't suggest him blowing his Points on it.


Contestable.

Why Prince Dagger > Spellblade:
23 Spell Crit

Why Spellblade > Prince Dagger:
15 Spell Hit
22 Spell Damage
9 Stamina
22 Resilience (irrelevant)

So assuming Crit and Hit are of equal values (which they aren't, Hit > Crit) that's a trade-off of 8 Spell Crit for 22 Spell Damage and 9 Stamina. I'd say Spellblade is the better choice both for PvP and PvE. I'd recommended him getting Shat'ar Rep for one trinket slot and maybe getting the Starkiller's Bauble from Netherstorm for the other slot, using Badges for the Off-Hand and PvPing for the Spellblade.
#16 Apr 03 2008 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
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821 posts
I have never in my entire BC experience seen the dagger drop of the prince, and i have downed him at leas 30 times...

There is a big difference between a "static" tier drop and a drop which is also on the loottable.

Best way to increase your dps/dmg is to improve one item a day, bit by bit.
#17 Apr 03 2008 at 9:44 AM Rating: Decent
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569 posts
Quote:
0/21/40 SuccySac/Shadow and Flame > warriors and priests easily


I haven't played my lock in eons, but I think this is probably the best advice in the thread.

My elemental shaman only runs Kara/ZA/Gruul/Heroics nowadays, and out of the ~1% of those runs where I'm not #1 on damage meters, it's almost always a Shadow/Destruction Warlock who's beating me. And 0/21/40 sounds like the exact build they use to do it.
#18 Apr 03 2008 at 11:31 AM Rating: Decent
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357 posts
The 0/21/40 build requires a few things before it starts to outdamage the other specs and he is no where near the requirements. I believe it something to the effect of 800 damage, 170 crit, and at least 15% crit before talents, preferably 20%.

As for your talents the only problem I see is Improved CoA. Unless they changed it recently Improved CoA does not benefit from spell damage. Therefore you are spending 2 points for an xtra 130 damage on a spell that shouldn't be used much in kara. I would take those 2 points and put 1 more into Imp Drain Soul and the other into suppression.

Suppression is just a placeholder talent until you can get more +spellhit. It's good to have, but do not rely on it.

As far as gear goes, your decked out in pvp, but missing the one pvp item that drastically overpowers pve at that lvl. The weapon. It is expensive but it is worth it. If you buy the season 2(or higher depending on your rating) dagger you will not replace it for a very long time. It's one of those items you can feel confident in putting an expensive enchant like soulfrost on because you'll have it for so long.

Try and get the spellstrike hood and pants made, as they will last you quite a while too. You can also have someone make you the girdle of ruination or better yet the belt of blasting. The badge belt is also really nice.

If you can't afford to socket all you gem slots with rare at least put in the cheapo ones from the vender until you can. It doesn't seem like much but those gems can add up very quickly.

You need a wand. The one from the last boss in heroic slave pens is nice, the badge one is better.

As for trinkets, everybody has already mentioned the icon of the silver cresent from badges, I would like to say that you need to work on your scryer rep. The scryer trinket is one of the best, many time did i look at that and wish I had gone scryer.


The overall thing to realize is the different stats for pve vs pvp. Resilience and penetration are virtually worthless. Spell hit is your best friend. Stacking Stamina and int is nice, but do not pass on something good because it has low stamina. At this lvl in pve, as long as you have 8,000hp you'll be fine. I know too many locks that pass on really great drops because it will lower there health from 11,000 to 10,800. Meanwhile I out damage them and if something goes wrong they're xtra health rarly saves them.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2008 4:32pm by ccbutch
#19 Apr 03 2008 at 6:23 PM Rating: Decent
34 posts
alot of the stuff that drops in kara is worse then what i have.. spell damage stamina the works the only thing it has is +21 spell crit.. i have the gloves and head fallen hero ( void ) doesnt seem that great.. i dont play my lock much so i dont have lots of gold. i just do 10 games of arena on monday, and kara tuesdays... so to be destruction + hit and crit is the way to go?
#20 Apr 03 2008 at 8:18 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Unless they changed it recently Improved CoA does not benefit from spell damage.


If by recently you mean 6+ months ago, then yes, they changed it.
#21 Apr 03 2008 at 9:55 PM Rating: Good
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266 posts
Starlight Dagger(Slave Pens), Scryers Bloodgem(Revered Scryers), Icon of the Silver Crescent(41 Badges), start farming primals for your spellstrike set, if your a tailor at 375 farm shadow/fire/waters for your shadoweave set, get Handwraps of Flowing Thought off of Attumen gem for Hit, +8 Spell hit gems in all sockets regardless of slot bonus or color, except for the Frozen Shadoweave set use 1 Glowing Nightseye in blue and 1 Great Dawnstone in Yellow. Vindicators necklace with Great Dawnstone, Voodoo-Woven Belt(60 Badges) with this gear alone adds over 100 spell hit rating, the only time consuming thing apart from farming mats for Spellstrike/Frozen Shadoweave is the 2 badge rewards but they are excellent upgrades

Edited, Apr 4th 2008 2:02am by FreeTrial
#22 Apr 04 2008 at 3:50 AM Rating: Good
This may be a little off topic as I am not answering your question at all. I will let the actual Locks do that.

However, maybe you are thinking about this the wrong way. In my guild, if someone posts a damage meter mid raid, or asks for a damage report, after one warning, we remove them from the raid. Call it severe but if everyone is worrying about where they place on the charts then they arent paying attention to the overall goal. Beating Kara.

We ran a lock a few times who was VERY obsessed with being top Damage done in the raid. He often pulled threat on trash pulls, died about every 3rd or 4th pull. Caused several wipes because he was too busy paying attention to casting spells that he didnt even watch his threat on boss fights. He was always top damage done, also had the highest repair bill, and also had the most deaths. We dropped him after the 3rd run.

I run a damage meter so I can compare how well I can sustain my dps fight to fight. That is all I use it for.

In closeing, if damage is all you are concerned about then by all means go for it. However, with that mindset you may get dissapointed and may lose out on some of the general fun that can be had by just being a team and doing Kara together.

If I am full of **** feel free to let me know!
#23 Apr 04 2008 at 3:54 AM Rating: Good
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992 posts
Quote:
alot of the stuff that drops in kara is worse then what i have..


No, it's not. It's of lower item levels but in actuality it's far better.

Uni-Mind Headdress is better than your hood
Handwraps of Flowing Thought are better than your gloves
Staff of Infinite Mysteries is better than your weapon
The Lightning Capacitator is actually an upgrade compared to your PvP trinket
Trial-Fire Trousers are better than your trousers
Robe of the Elder Scribes is better than your Robe

None of the current gear you have in those slots is any good in Karazhan apart from the staff, which is mediocre.
#24 Apr 04 2008 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
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266 posts
In my experiences T4 for warlock is garbage the tailor craftables will last you till T5-T6 transition and isn't a dps classes purpose to do the max damage possible, I admit the case of the guy pulling aggro watching dps meter instead of omen was a problem but after the 2nd wipe you should have been looking for a replacement, in our runs he would be /removed and possibly /gkicked depending on the pull.
#25 Apr 07 2008 at 6:50 AM Rating: Good
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1,262 posts
Well, my first trip to kara was this last weekend with my lock. I will say that I respecced demonology between day 1 and day 2. I was affliction on day 1. I was #3 dps in there and my gear is basically a little bit of PvP gear with FSW. It was interesting that I crushed another lock in dps, but notices she only used SoC on Illhoof, and never rain of fire (for the stairs pulls before moroes and before maiden.

I did use SoC on the mana worm thingys before curator as well. That was fun. For those that are obsessed with being #1 dps at all costs, damage meters are bad. For those that want to see their damage improved and are actively working on how much damage they can do, damage meters are great. I was outdpsed by a well geared hunter and rogue.
#26 Apr 07 2008 at 7:15 AM Rating: Decent
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61 posts
Why would you use rain of fire? SoC does somethink like 1600-1800 damage per mob per SoC. On the AoE pulls and Illihoof Im on SoC duty and top 1500 dps. Im a damage *****, but IMO thats the point of the class. I want to do as much damage as possible without pulling agro.

My top-tips for doing awesome dps:
1) Cycle your trinkets when ever theyre available.

2) Dont wait for your cast bar to finish before clicking on the next cast, with the game lag you can click a bit earlier. For instance, chaining SB's I can click it at about the 75% mark and the new timer will be started exactly when the old is done.

3) On trash, send in a succy or felhunter to attack also with sh*t-t. You dont need a mana battery on trash. I see locks pets just standing by doing nothing all the time when a succy can add 75-125 dps.

4) Read the forums. So much info available from more experienced players here and at the warlocks den.

Edited, Apr 7th 2008 11:15am by MrDallas
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