I really am!
My Warlock raids Kara with ease, and is now working through Zul'Aman.
Done a LOT of instances of the past year.
Never - and I mean NEVER - have I had to use my Succy.
I mean - she looks kinda nice - and her slapping comments are kinda kinky, but I have never learned to USE her. (Or the Fel Hunter for that matter.)
Voidwalker + dots + fear = win. Why mess with success? (OK - in instances leave out the fear.) On Heroic instances - the tanks would hold aggro - so just use the imp as a mana battery + dots = win.
My warlock got left out of MrT due to lack of CC - succy just isn't that good - even with people who know how to use her. I DON'T.
So - laugh if you must. But could some kind-hearted person give a DETAILED description of how your seduce? (Fel Hunter info also appreciated).
P.S. SUCCY seduce. I know all about the other kind. heh, heh.
Thanks.
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The succy is actually amazing cc now. 15 second seduce with no DR in PvE that you can recast easily. Use this macro:
/cast [pet:Succubus,target=focus] Seduction; [pet:Succubus] Seduction
/focus [target=focus,dead]
allows you to re-seduce your target without having to target him again.
I personally think its better than sap and ice trap since sap wears out and if iceblock is resisted, your screwed. The only problem with it though is that it will only work on Humanoids.
Edit: You need to watch out for melee though because after 3 seduces the mob will normally be in range and can almost 1 shot your succy in heroics/raids.
Edited, Mar 31st 2008 11:59pm by Tugnus
/cast [pet:Succubus,target=focus] Seduction; [pet:Succubus] Seduction
/focus [target=focus,dead]
allows you to re-seduce your target without having to target him again.
I personally think its better than sap and ice trap since sap wears out and if iceblock is resisted, your screwed. The only problem with it though is that it will only work on Humanoids.
Edit: You need to watch out for melee though because after 3 seduces the mob will normally be in range and can almost 1 shot your succy in heroics/raids.
Edited, Mar 31st 2008 11:59pm by Tugnus
F-ck Succy, especially on Heroics.
First off, in Heroic the Monsters have much higher hits against Low armor (and Low +Defense especially), but on Tanks they really don't hit much harder - not like a good tank ever goes down quick in any MgT at all, it's just the difficulty of Threat Control.
The worst pulls *without* a Lock are ones that include a Succubus (Sister of Torment.) The BEST way to deal with these situations is to Immediately Throw CoShadow, DeathCoil, Enslave. You'll lose your Imp but pick up a Manabattery FAR FAR Better (over 300 Spirit and over 16000 Mana). Not only this, but your new Succy has more than 10 Times the HP and 15 Times the Armor of the original... Guess what else she has - Seduce.
Our Succubus is all but useless in high end (T5+ and S2+.) She can be one-shotted (litterally) by a myriad of things (including AEs!!! - LAME), gives crap Bonus to Demo Spec (except SuccySac obviously) and has an ability with bad Resist rate and even worse Diminishing Returns.
Even in Heroix I find myself preferring CoEx + Fear CCing over regular Succubus. PuGs always tell me to bring out Succy and I do so they can see how terrible she is. My buddies already know how I operate.
Anyways, for MgT you'll find the funnest/best route to real CC is to have an Offensive Priest in there for Mind Control, and a Lock in there for Enslave. It's nice to be able to turn a 5 v 6 Pull into a 7 v 4... =)
Both make excellent players against the 2nd and 3rd bosses, too.
Edited, Apr 1st 2008 12:06am by tzsjynx
First off, in Heroic the Monsters have much higher hits against Low armor (and Low +Defense especially), but on Tanks they really don't hit much harder - not like a good tank ever goes down quick in any MgT at all, it's just the difficulty of Threat Control.
The worst pulls *without* a Lock are ones that include a Succubus (Sister of Torment.) The BEST way to deal with these situations is to Immediately Throw CoShadow, DeathCoil, Enslave. You'll lose your Imp but pick up a Manabattery FAR FAR Better (over 300 Spirit and over 16000 Mana). Not only this, but your new Succy has more than 10 Times the HP and 15 Times the Armor of the original... Guess what else she has - Seduce.
Our Succubus is all but useless in high end (T5+ and S2+.) She can be one-shotted (litterally) by a myriad of things (including AEs!!! - LAME), gives crap Bonus to Demo Spec (except SuccySac obviously) and has an ability with bad Resist rate and even worse Diminishing Returns.
Even in Heroix I find myself preferring CoEx + Fear CCing over regular Succubus. PuGs always tell me to bring out Succy and I do so they can see how terrible she is. My buddies already know how I operate.
Anyways, for MgT you'll find the funnest/best route to real CC is to have an Offensive Priest in there for Mind Control, and a Lock in there for Enslave. It's nice to be able to turn a 5 v 6 Pull into a 7 v 4... =)
Both make excellent players against the 2nd and 3rd bosses, too.
Edited, Apr 1st 2008 12:06am by tzsjynx
Just Seduce from a distance then. While she gets one-shotted by AoEs, if you leave her channeling standing in front of a cleaving mob or right next to the Arcane-Explosioning one or whatever you're doing something wrong. With the above set of macros I've had no trouble Seducing in any Heroic I've been in, but focus-fearing is also an option as he said.
Seduce is sorta low range, and in many of the times where it's needed theres a LoS issue until the monster has been pulled.
My main problem with it is just how often it breaks early, and the fact that once it does break the Succubus is 1 shotted (litterally) before *any* real action can take place.
I have DoTimer and a Banish addon both of which tell me how my Seduce is going, and they both are of little help since early breaks happen a good 50% of the time.
The /focus macro works fine, but doesn't really make a difference when the Succy is litterally hit for 3600 when she has 3200hp.
I'd just honestly rather spend my Shards, mana, and time on something more productive -- in Heroics (pretty much any) my Fear CC will bring down the mob on it's on (when i throw dots up while it runs around to ensure I keep agro) which to me seems a hell of alot better use of time than keeping a super close eye on my dumb Succubus.
My main problem with it is just how often it breaks early, and the fact that once it does break the Succubus is 1 shotted (litterally) before *any* real action can take place.
I have DoTimer and a Banish addon both of which tell me how my Seduce is going, and they both are of little help since early breaks happen a good 50% of the time.
The /focus macro works fine, but doesn't really make a difference when the Succy is litterally hit for 3600 when she has 3200hp.
I'd just honestly rather spend my Shards, mana, and time on something more productive -- in Heroics (pretty much any) my Fear CC will bring down the mob on it's on (when i throw dots up while it runs around to ensure I keep agro) which to me seems a hell of alot better use of time than keeping a super close eye on my dumb Succubus.
I too am not a great user of Succy. I find it a difficult skill. Having said that, that macro works wonders (and I'm sure since 2.4 it breaks early much less).
Now, I have only been called upon to use it a couple of times. Shattered Halls and Magisters. She DOES get one shotted every time. My lack of skill.
But why oh why can't people let me do what I KNOW how to do? I can off tank anything non-Heroic with my FG. Surely that is a more effective CC as the mob is DEAD at the end?
But still, I persevere. I'm nice like that. Then, of course, I get blamed for wipes, but whatever...how else will I (and they) learn?
Now, I have only been called upon to use it a couple of times. Shattered Halls and Magisters. She DOES get one shotted every time. My lack of skill.
But why oh why can't people let me do what I KNOW how to do? I can off tank anything non-Heroic with my FG. Surely that is a more effective CC as the mob is DEAD at the end?
But still, I persevere. I'm nice like that. Then, of course, I get blamed for wipes, but whatever...how else will I (and they) learn?
Scholar
27 posts
I've worked with seduce a quite a bit and I have to admit its pretty awful in most pug situations. If you're with a tank who knows how it works, its a big help.
One strat we've used is to wait for some tank agro before cast. Instead of using it right after the pull, wait until the tank gets a swing or two at it. The intial damage to the tank can be a bit higher, but that swipe or two will stop the mob from going after the Succy during that 1.5 sec gap in CC.
All that aside, Fear is still far superior. Pulling the group back a bit and fear-dotting that poor mob around is way more effective AND fun.
One strat we've used is to wait for some tank agro before cast. Instead of using it right after the pull, wait until the tank gets a swing or two at it. The intial damage to the tank can be a bit higher, but that swipe or two will stop the mob from going after the Succy during that 1.5 sec gap in CC.
All that aside, Fear is still far superior. Pulling the group back a bit and fear-dotting that poor mob around is way more effective AND fun.
Found an interesting link on using Seduce effectively as CC:
wowvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Guides.Detail&id=222
An interesting read, especially for a non-lock, and I'm hoping it's accurate.
Additionally, the second important point to note is that the Succubus' Seduced Target, your Focused Target, will have a clear threat list if nothing but your Succubus has directly interacted with it, upon coming out of Seduction. The mob will do one of three things:
A) Attack your Succubus as it is the only entity that has actually interacted with the mob by placing the Seduction debuff on the target.
B) Attack the target that has done the most relevant healing.
C) Attack the target that accidentally hit it with a damaging AoE spell.
These three actions are the most common, and they can be circumvented with the use of "Searing Pain", a Warlock ability that takes 1.5 seconds to cast and deals 500-or-so damage. The damage Searing Pain deals is unique in that it will deal twice as much threat as any normal attack. Using Searing Pain on your focused mob prior to Seduction (not during!) will ensure that the mob will attack you; while this doesn't sound like a good idea at first, it will be rapidly learned that it's better to have the mob where it's alot more obvious to you that the seduce has broken or the mob cannot be seduced for any reason than to have it out of sight, knocking your favourite Priest on their hindquarters.
They also recommend using a duration addon for debuffs to tell when Seduce is about to break.
Hope that's helpful!
Edited, Apr 1st 2008 11:02am by tabstopper
wowvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Guides.Detail&id=222
An interesting read, especially for a non-lock, and I'm hoping it's accurate.
Quote:
Now here, we have this macro; a macro that literally ends all other seduction macroes.
/clearfocus [modifier:alt]
/focus [target=focus,noexists]; [target=focus,dead]
/clearfocus [target=focus,help]
/petstay
/petfollow
/stopcasting
/cast [pet:succubus,target=focus,exists,harm] Seduction; Seduction
This macro does the following:
* Upon use, the macro will Focus your target, and have your succubus Seduce it.
* When used for the second time, and your Focused target, i.e. the Seduction target, is alive, it will re-seduce it, regardless of what your current target is. It will not focus your current target, and seduce that; it will re-seduce it's focused target.
* If used during Seduction, it will break the seduction and re-seduce the focused target.
* If clicked while "Alt" is being pressed, it will cancel the previous focus and assign a new focus on your current target.
This one macro is all you need for correct Succubus useage.
Many mobs will have a high Shadow Resistance due to Shadow Protection buffs, or a natural Shadow Resistance. For these mobs, Seduce will very often resist and the mob will run wild. In this case, the Curse spell "Curse of Shadow", lowering Shadow Resistance by 60-80 points, is essential. Placing it on the target prior to the Seduction itself will lower the target's Shadow Resistance to almost zero, allowing easy Seductions time and time again.
/clearfocus [modifier:alt]
/focus [target=focus,noexists]; [target=focus,dead]
/clearfocus [target=focus,help]
/petstay
/petfollow
/stopcasting
/cast [pet:succubus,target=focus,exists,harm] Seduction; Seduction
This macro does the following:
* Upon use, the macro will Focus your target, and have your succubus Seduce it.
* When used for the second time, and your Focused target, i.e. the Seduction target, is alive, it will re-seduce it, regardless of what your current target is. It will not focus your current target, and seduce that; it will re-seduce it's focused target.
* If used during Seduction, it will break the seduction and re-seduce the focused target.
* If clicked while "Alt" is being pressed, it will cancel the previous focus and assign a new focus on your current target.
This one macro is all you need for correct Succubus useage.
Many mobs will have a high Shadow Resistance due to Shadow Protection buffs, or a natural Shadow Resistance. For these mobs, Seduce will very often resist and the mob will run wild. In this case, the Curse spell "Curse of Shadow", lowering Shadow Resistance by 60-80 points, is essential. Placing it on the target prior to the Seduction itself will lower the target's Shadow Resistance to almost zero, allowing easy Seductions time and time again.
Quote:
Two important points to note is that the Succubus sports a severely low health pool. My Succubus has a health pool of almost 3500 health points. This, combined with her low armour, makes her as fragile as glass. Having her near fighting mobs will guarantee certain death, very quickly. Her Seduction has a 30 yard range- that's the distance of a Shadowbolt, Fireball, et cetera- manipulating her position using Stay and Follow to have her out of harm's way while Seducing is critical to her, and thusly your party's, survival.
Quote:
Additionally, the second important point to note is that the Succubus' Seduced Target, your Focused Target, will have a clear threat list if nothing but your Succubus has directly interacted with it, upon coming out of Seduction. The mob will do one of three things:
A) Attack your Succubus as it is the only entity that has actually interacted with the mob by placing the Seduction debuff on the target.
B) Attack the target that has done the most relevant healing.
C) Attack the target that accidentally hit it with a damaging AoE spell.
These three actions are the most common, and they can be circumvented with the use of "Searing Pain", a Warlock ability that takes 1.5 seconds to cast and deals 500-or-so damage. The damage Searing Pain deals is unique in that it will deal twice as much threat as any normal attack. Using Searing Pain on your focused mob prior to Seduction (not during!) will ensure that the mob will attack you; while this doesn't sound like a good idea at first, it will be rapidly learned that it's better to have the mob where it's alot more obvious to you that the seduce has broken or the mob cannot be seduced for any reason than to have it out of sight, knocking your favourite Priest on their hindquarters.
They also recommend using a duration addon for debuffs to tell when Seduce is about to break.
Hope that's helpful!
Edited, Apr 1st 2008 11:02am by tabstopper
30 Yards... nice.
I guess I gotta start using "stay" then cuz my dumb Succy will litterally run up to the mob before casting (when all I've done is hit "Seduce.")
*Edit* Also Don't think I havn't tried using Shadows...
In Certain Dungeons against certain monsters (usually the ones you want CC'd) the monsters just seem to break early no matter what. MgT, TK, and Coilfang are the worst.
Edited, Apr 1st 2008 12:47pm by tzsjynx
I guess I gotta start using "stay" then cuz my dumb Succy will litterally run up to the mob before casting (when all I've done is hit "Seduce.")
*Edit* Also Don't think I havn't tried using Shadows...
In Certain Dungeons against certain monsters (usually the ones you want CC'd) the monsters just seem to break early no matter what. MgT, TK, and Coilfang are the worst.
Edited, Apr 1st 2008 12:47pm by tzsjynx
In Regular and Heroics, I'll tell her to seduce right as the puller is bringing up the rifle, throwing, casting, etc so everyone can AoE until their heart is content.
I'll watch the seduce timer and when it gets low, I'll shadowbolt the mob, making sure that there is some decent room between me, the succubus and the mob that's coming after me. As the shadowbolt is flying, I'll click to seduce again; very similar to the searing pain idea posted above but a little more damaging.
When seduce is ready to break, I'll also do a quick Lifetap followed by an immediate Death Coil and seduce. With a 3-second walking fear, there isn't much chance that the mob will run into another pull if seduce is resisted or something (I've had one close call before the fire chick in Mech).
Regardless of what's said here, practice makes perfect.
I'll watch the seduce timer and when it gets low, I'll shadowbolt the mob, making sure that there is some decent room between me, the succubus and the mob that's coming after me. As the shadowbolt is flying, I'll click to seduce again; very similar to the searing pain idea posted above but a little more damaging.
When seduce is ready to break, I'll also do a quick Lifetap followed by an immediate Death Coil and seduce. With a 3-second walking fear, there isn't much chance that the mob will run into another pull if seduce is resisted or something (I've had one close call before the fire chick in Mech).
Regardless of what's said here, practice makes perfect.
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