Ok, in recent additions have really bumped my Def over to 520 and so i was playing around and mixing PvP gear with Tank Gems to take advantage of Stam and Threat and have the following stats...
Outfit A Variant
S1 Gladiators Plate Helm
Enchants: +34AP, +16HitR
Gem: +24AP, +8HitR
S2 Merciless Gladiators Plate Shoulders
Enchants: +26AP
Gems: +12Stam x2 (sarcrificed socket bouns)
Dmg: 190-271
Pwr: 872
HitR: 44
Crit%: 14.02
Expertise: 11
Armor: 14,323
Def: 492
Dodge R: 16.81
Parry R: 17.58
Block R: 21.39
Resilience: 103
HP: 12.5K
Outfit B Variants:
Felsteel Helm
Enchant: +16DefR & +17DodR
Gem: +8DodR, +12Stam x2
Shoulderguards of the Bold
Enchant: +13DodR
Gem: +8 HitR, +12Stam
Stats:
Dmg: 171-253
Pwr: 706
HitR: 32
Crit%: 11.53
Expertise: 11
Armor: 13,907
Def: 520
Dodge R: 20.10
Parry R: 18.70
Block R: 22.51
Resilience: 23
HP: 12.1K
which stats is preferable? currently working on Kara and Heroics.
I OT most of the time but am occassionally called to MT.
as per my "Threat" thread, i am having slight difficulty in establishing and holding aggro due to my party being very well geared.
was wondering if the Outfit A variant may help me generate more threat without much loss in other stats...
comments please...
thanks.
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Tanking Stat Comparisons; Comments Please...
Tanking Stat Comparisons; Comments Please...Follow
#2REDACTED,
Posted: Mar 28 2008 at 11:36 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If you are just off-tanking, throw some DPS gear on. If you are off-tanking and getting owned, throw some defense gear on. Thats the general rule :O
but i want to build up to MT...
i rather not OT if i can handle it...
thanks.
i rather not OT if i can handle it...
thanks.
I'd use the S2 shoulders and the Felsteel helm...
20 posts
This is my understanding, and I will never attest to being an expert but to MT you should go with B. OT A is great!
It baffles me to no end, if you look at me, you can immediately peg me as a Kara OT. I havent run kara enough to get the gear to MT, while my guild has kara on farm. I had a similar question and asked my guilds 3 Main TANKS. What they explained to me was, Armour is nice, HP is nice BUT BOTH DODGE AND PARRY TAKE PRESIDENT!
Look at it this way and break it down:
Hit/Dmg-makes threat right, really its only a difference 20 damg!
CRITs: dont mean sh*t since your fighting 71-73(lvl above) mininal crits then! and you are a tank!
ARMOUR: this one baffles me too! but its only 400 difference minor improvement of hit negation.
DEF: anything above 490 has null effect
DODGE: means chance of NOT getting hit!!!
PARRY: means stopping the hit, NO DAMAGE, and generating RAGE
BLOCK: means using your shield and minimizing DAMAGE
RESIL: Means minimizing Crits and blows, but you are uncrittable with 490 def... hmm (jury is still out on this one, couple of different oppions)
HP: 400 difference... could be important IF YOU GET HIT!
NOW for threat!! Hit rating is nice, means your not missing, it helps if that was higher for sure, BUT how fast is your weapon you are using? SHIELD SLAM, our key threatmaker, is bassed on shield block rating, not hit. Ive never seen a Shield Block miss yet! So extra hit rating is nice where you can get it, but not at the cost of Dodge or Parry or armour or Health. Remember, if you are loosing aggro, TELL your Party members to watch their threatmeters! Are you loosing threat to the healer or to the DPSers? If its the DPS, tell em to go back to WOW school and learn how to play DPS! If its healers, then you need to move more toward setup B and tweak as much as possible. Cause it means they are having to give you big heals causing big threat. Note: if the healer is not good at their role, they may OVERHEAL you meaning they give you a big 4000hp heal when you may need only 1000hp, causing larger threat than nessecary.
FYI... in guild who farms Kara and has heavily geared DPSers. If they draw aggro they appologize! All cause they actually know how to play and know its their fault!
Cheers and Good LUCK!
Edited, Mar 31st 2008 8:45am by Krullon
It baffles me to no end, if you look at me, you can immediately peg me as a Kara OT. I havent run kara enough to get the gear to MT, while my guild has kara on farm. I had a similar question and asked my guilds 3 Main TANKS. What they explained to me was, Armour is nice, HP is nice BUT BOTH DODGE AND PARRY TAKE PRESIDENT!
Look at it this way and break it down:
Hit/Dmg-makes threat right, really its only a difference 20 damg!
CRITs: dont mean sh*t since your fighting 71-73(lvl above) mininal crits then! and you are a tank!
ARMOUR: this one baffles me too! but its only 400 difference minor improvement of hit negation.
DEF: anything above 490 has null effect
DODGE: means chance of NOT getting hit!!!
PARRY: means stopping the hit, NO DAMAGE, and generating RAGE
BLOCK: means using your shield and minimizing DAMAGE
RESIL: Means minimizing Crits and blows, but you are uncrittable with 490 def... hmm (jury is still out on this one, couple of different oppions)
HP: 400 difference... could be important IF YOU GET HIT!
NOW for threat!! Hit rating is nice, means your not missing, it helps if that was higher for sure, BUT how fast is your weapon you are using? SHIELD SLAM, our key threatmaker, is bassed on shield block rating, not hit. Ive never seen a Shield Block miss yet! So extra hit rating is nice where you can get it, but not at the cost of Dodge or Parry or armour or Health. Remember, if you are loosing aggro, TELL your Party members to watch their threatmeters! Are you loosing threat to the healer or to the DPSers? If its the DPS, tell em to go back to WOW school and learn how to play DPS! If its healers, then you need to move more toward setup B and tweak as much as possible. Cause it means they are having to give you big heals causing big threat. Note: if the healer is not good at their role, they may OVERHEAL you meaning they give you a big 4000hp heal when you may need only 1000hp, causing larger threat than nessecary.
FYI... in guild who farms Kara and has heavily geared DPSers. If they draw aggro they appologize! All cause they actually know how to play and know its their fault!
Cheers and Good LUCK!
Edited, Mar 31st 2008 8:45am by Krullon
Quote:
It baffles me to no end, if you look at me, you can immediately peg me as a Kara OT. I havent run kara enough to get the gear to MT, while my guild has kara on farm. I had a similar question and asked my guilds 3 Main TANKS. What they explained to me was, Armour is nice, HP is nice BUT BOTH DODGE AND PARRY TAKE PRESIDENT!
Yes and no... but, really, no. All no, actually.
There's a tanking theory called Effective Health, which basically goes like this; avoidance is good, and should be acquired where possible, but in general the most important stat for main tanking is Effective Health... or, to put it another way, "when the **** absolutely hits the fan, how much damage can you take before dying"?
It's more noticeable on Prince Malch than anything else in Kara, although it's a concern on a lot of 25-man bosses as well. Healers can heal the incoming damage fine on the tanks as long as they aren't bursted into the ground; even if you have 5% less dodge but can take an additional hit before dying you're probably better off, and the trade-offs are never that obscene.
Armor (and Stamina) are some of the most important stats for EH. This doesn't mean you should ignore dodge, but ignoring Armor and Stamina in favor of avoidance is going to end poorly. Besides, just looking at armor will increase your survivability by quite a bit (taking 1-2% less damage on every attack isn't any worse than dodging 1-2% more).
Quote:
I'd use the S2 shoulders and the Felsteel helm...
Ditto.
The "bold" gear is kinda under powered. gladiator gear has tons of sta and is easily customized for tanking (sta sta or def def if you lack 490 defense).
If you threw on the tanking chant for the shoulders, your gonna be hard to find a good replacement for them for a long time.
currently using S2 shoulder but i did not spend the cash for tanking chant...
i have them gem'd with +12 sta.
will replace the AP enchant with tanking chant.
i am having no issues going as far as Illhoof and Aran, but it seems Netherspite, Prince and Nightbane, i'm having difficulties...
what should be my stats to MT Spite, N.Bane, Prince?
Prince, i guess it's more a timing thing? to spot enfeeble and git out?
Netherspite, the damned beams... i've been looking at some videos of this fight but it seems some folks have different strats...
Nightbane... first time seeing it yesterday... looks nice, imagine if it was a mount...
i have them gem'd with +12 sta.
will replace the AP enchant with tanking chant.
i am having no issues going as far as Illhoof and Aran, but it seems Netherspite, Prince and Nightbane, i'm having difficulties...
what should be my stats to MT Spite, N.Bane, Prince?
Prince, i guess it's more a timing thing? to spot enfeeble and git out?
Netherspite, the damned beams... i've been looking at some videos of this fight but it seems some folks have different strats...
Nightbane... first time seeing it yesterday... looks nice, imagine if it was a mount...
Krullon wrote:
What they explained to me was, Armour is nice, HP is nice BUT BOTH DODGE AND PARRY TAKE PRESIDENT!
Look at it this way and break it down:
Hit/Dmg-makes threat right, really its only a difference 20 damg!
CRITs: dont mean sh*t since your fighting 71-73(lvl above) mininal crits then! and you are a tank!
ARMOUR: this one baffles me too! but its only 400 difference minor improvement of hit negation.
DEF: anything above 490 has null effect
DODGE: means chance of NOT getting hit!!!
PARRY: means stopping the hit, NO DAMAGE, and generating RAGE
BLOCK: means using your shield and minimizing DAMAGE
RESIL: Means minimizing Crits and blows, but you are uncrittable with 490 def... hmm (jury is still out on this one, couple of different oppions)
HP: 400 difference... could be important IF YOU GET HIT!
Look at it this way and break it down:
Hit/Dmg-makes threat right, really its only a difference 20 damg!
CRITs: dont mean sh*t since your fighting 71-73(lvl above) mininal crits then! and you are a tank!
ARMOUR: this one baffles me too! but its only 400 difference minor improvement of hit negation.
DEF: anything above 490 has null effect
DODGE: means chance of NOT getting hit!!!
PARRY: means stopping the hit, NO DAMAGE, and generating RAGE
BLOCK: means using your shield and minimizing DAMAGE
RESIL: Means minimizing Crits and blows, but you are uncrittable with 490 def... hmm (jury is still out on this one, couple of different oppions)
HP: 400 difference... could be important IF YOU GET HIT!
Sorry to be so blunt, but no. Just... no.
First of all, stamina > avoidance in general. Now, 40 stamina might not be better than a large amount of avoidance, but in general you aren't choosing between 40 stamina or 5% of parry. You're choosing between something like 20 stamina vs .3% of dodge. Second of all, this line
Quote:
DEF: anything above 490 has null effect
Makes me sick to my stomach just reading it. Point-for-point Defense is ONE OF THE #1 MOST VALUABLE AVOIDANCE SKILL A WARRIOR HAS. Here's some numbers:
1 Defense skill (2.3654 defense rating)
-> block +.04%
-> dodge +.04%
-> parry +.04%
-> chance to be missed +.04%
-> (summary) .12% total avoidance, .04% mitigation
Obviously there's the chance to be crit -.04%, but I left it out since we're tlaking about over 490.
18.923 dodge rating
-> dodge +1%
22.4 parry rating
-> parry +1%
7.8846 shield block rating
-> block +1%
SO, summarizing all this:
1 defense rating
-> .0507% total avoidance, .0169% mitigation
1 dodge rating
-> .0528% total avoidance
1 parry rating
-> .0446% total avoidance
1 shield block rating
-> .1268% mitigation
Now, for pure avoidance you can see that dodge comes out slightly ahead, BUT there are some other considerations:
1) 1% of parry is superior to 1% of dodge
2) Blocking with a shield generates rage, both from shield specialization and from taking damage
3) Defense increases your chance to be missed, and there is no way other than defense to increase this number.
Defense is an amazing stat, no matter how much of it you have. Be careful what kind of assumptions you make.
Edited, Apr 2nd 2008 12:22pm by duvar
Quote:
what should be my stats to MT Spite, N.Bane, Prince?
~35% combined dodge and parry, ~14k armor, ~14k hp, to make the requirements nice and simple.
But, if your DPS is slow or your healers suck, your gonna have a hard time one manning any boss in kara. You'll find if you get most of the tanking gear that drops up until those bosses, you'll have plenty of hp and armor.
And spite is really a push over once your team figures out how to handle beam swaping.
As MT for that fight I loved this fight. You get agro for free, you get to 'heal' yourself for free. "Wtf do I need all you douchebags that whine all the time about how much you want that spiteblade or the healing mace from..."
/end -rant onstupidguild
We found putting a rage or energy based character in the green beam works great. So you have 2 mt/ot types. Switch them out from red beam duty to green beam duty each phase change.
It's easy as soon as your healers get on the ball and never never never step into any beam if they can help it.
anyone with mail class armor and up with decent hp and defense can tank spite.
we had a shaman tank spite once because our bear dc'd and when i called him, he said he had 'let the smoke out of the computer'.
and as we all know the fundamental law of computing is; "Computers run on smoke. Once you let the smoke out of the computer, it no longer functions."
Krullon wrote:
DEF: anything above 490 has null effect
Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!
What happens if a player has resil added to that? That magic 490 def number is lower. So why do tanks get over 490? Because def isn't just crit immune it's adds to your avoidance, block, dodge and parry.
Krullon wrote:
Note: if the healer is not good at their role, they may OVERHEAL you meaning they give you a big 4000hp heal when you may need only 1000hp, causing larger threat than nessecary.
Wrong! Wrong! Wrong
Overheals don't cause larger threat. 1000 hp healed with a 1000 hp spell vs 4000 hp spell = same agro.
Quote:
~35% combined dodge and parry, ~14k armor, ~14k hp, to make the requirements nice and simple.
unbuffed, right?
damn, i need to work on my stam... need more stam...
is Wrynn Dynasty Greaves worth the Nethercleft? i just slapped on Cleft on it for the time being... it seemed a ridiculously large jump in gold for additional 10Sta 2 Agi...
Spite seems like a fun fight... i cant wait to do it again... i actually want to try MT'ing him... our Healers are amazing...
so far, as for gear wise, i've been quite fortunate...
Battlescar Boots
Wrynn Dynasty Greaves
Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden
Barbed Choker of Discipline
Moroes Pocket Watch
Slikk's Cape
need/want the following:
bracer from Attumen,
Belt from Moroes,
Ring from Aran,
KD, of course, and SID from Night...
not a big list, eh?
Quote:
The tanking enchant is from Aldor/Scyer and does not cost any gold but 8 holy dusts/arcane runes.
yep, i've had a DOH moment... got it... am happy...
BTW, is the S2 Shoulders +12Sta gems (x2) and Tank Chant from Aldor, still better than Mantle of Abramis off Spite?
I just switched from the S3 shoulders to the Mantle of Abrahmis, so i assume it's an upgrade over the S2. I needed the extra defense/dodge to reach 490 defense while maximizing my stamina. (took off a defense trinket for a +51 stamina trinket because of mantle :O)
And a side note, the 5-man heroic defense needed is 485 correct? I tend to let my defense fall to 486 with a boost of DPS in 5-mans, and i was just makin sure 486 was still ok.
And a side note, the 5-man heroic defense needed is 485 correct? I tend to let my defense fall to 486 with a boost of DPS in 5-mans, and i was just makin sure 486 was still ok.
Rikkitikkitavii wrote:
I just switched from the S3 shoulders to the Mantle of Abrahmis, so i assume it's an upgrade over the S2. I needed the extra defense/dodge to reach 490 defense while maximizing my stamina. (took off a defense trinket for a +51 stamina trinket because of mantle :O)
And a side note, the 5-man heroic defense needed is 485 correct? I tend to let my defense fall to 486 with a boost of DPS in 5-mans, and i was just makin sure 486 was still ok.
And a side note, the 5-man heroic defense needed is 485 correct? I tend to let my defense fall to 486 with a boost of DPS in 5-mans, and i was just makin sure 486 was still ok.
485-Heroics
490-Raid bosses
Quote:
BTW, is the S2 Shoulders +12Sta gems (x2) and Tank Chant from Aldor, still better than Mantle of Abramis off Spite?
I'd go with a generalized no. Defense provides a good boost to effective health even after 490 defense is reached by other gear.
Quote:
Quote:
~35% combined dodge and parry, ~14k armor, ~14k hp, to make the requirements nice and simple.
unbuffed, right?
damn, i need to work on my stam... need more stam...
Yes. Stamina and armor provide the base from which avoidance can make even better. If you focus on stamina/armor first, you wont fold like paper when a crushing blow happens or you don't dodge/parry/miss 2-3 hits in a row when the healers are low on mana (late fight).
If you have a good # of hits from a boss that you are personally capable of handling without heals, you'll then be able to start stacking avoidance.
Lets say prince hits for 4k per hit. With 12k hp, you'll only take 2 hits before your in scenario of one more hit to die. With 14k hp you'll have 3 hits before your in the one hit die mode. Once you get that effective health up to a point where you don't just die if you get unlucky from avoidance, you'll find avoidance actually becomes way more effective than without the effective health.
That's a really simplified explanation. But I think it gets my point across.
Edited, Apr 3rd 2008 12:43pm by devioususer
devioususer, thanks for the info.
btw, here's me so far...
i have surpassed 14k armor, a bit shy on HP,
block, dodge and parry seems to be in the range...
i think its getting there... not the best atm, have room for improvement in both gear and the skills... i need to brush up more... keep SB on cd...
btw, here's me so far...
i have surpassed 14k armor, a bit shy on HP,
block, dodge and parry seems to be in the range...
i think its getting there... not the best atm, have room for improvement in both gear and the skills... i need to brush up more... keep SB on cd...
Recent Visitors: 164
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (164)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Tanking Stat Comparisons; Comments Please...
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC