So, I have been working hard on my lvl 70 warrior to gear up for tanking Heroics and possible raids. However, I came across a very disturbing read yesterday on wowinsider that made mention that as a warrior gets better gear (which causes them to take less damage) they begin to have difficulty tanking some of the easier instances b/c of the less rage being generated by damage taken.
The author even suggested that he now tanks Heroics partially naked so that he can generate the rage he needs.
Other concerns that were mention was that our base threat does not scale with our characters as we level.
So, here is my question for the Elite Tanking warriors among our ranks:
Have you experienced this effect? As you geared up, are you only able to effectively tank the hardest mobs in the game and the lesser stuff become more of an issue?
My situation is that I am a member of a small guild. In fact, I am the only lvl 70 warrior in the guild. Because we have lower level people in our guild - I am called on to tank their instances for them. I have no problem helping, but I am concerned, if the above is right, that as my gear "improves" my tanking utility of lower level instances deminish.
Below is my armory link. I am still working on some stuff and waiting for the right gems to get - but I tank in this gear from reg. hellfire ramps up to heroics. I had my sights set on improving my avoidance stats - but if I don't get hit I don't generate as much rage to use my abilities. Plus, with better gear, I don't get as much rage per hit. If all this is true, it doesn't make a lot of since to me. I don't see the logic behind the mechanics. B/C IMO, if you spend the time/effort and guild time/effort to upgrade your armor to be better for the guild - then you should be able to tank some of the easiest instances with little effort. An analogy would be a military tank being able to take a direct hit from a anti tank missle and surviving, but is destroyed by a redneck with a bb gun.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Cenarion+Circle&n=Crazycalf
Thanks
CC
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Yes and no.
Yes-side. you generate rage by dealing and taking damage. So, lets say you have a crazy gear that makes you practically untouchable, you will ultimatly generate less rage.
No-side. You can avoid this. Just don't go crazy on the dodge side! Try to get more block instead of dodge. Block generates rage!
On the other side, this is a somewhat minor problem. The only times you will experience these problmes would be if you are insanely geared (t5 and 6 and so on) and go to a instance where you would outlevel or outgear your enemies. Even then it's not too bad, because you get rage fro dealing damage. Just have a quick 1h and it should be fine.
I'd like more comments on this.
Edited, Mar 27th 2008 10:22am by Sesseth
Yes-side. you generate rage by dealing and taking damage. So, lets say you have a crazy gear that makes you practically untouchable, you will ultimatly generate less rage.
No-side. You can avoid this. Just don't go crazy on the dodge side! Try to get more block instead of dodge. Block generates rage!
On the other side, this is a somewhat minor problem. The only times you will experience these problmes would be if you are insanely geared (t5 and 6 and so on) and go to a instance where you would outlevel or outgear your enemies. Even then it's not too bad, because you get rage fro dealing damage. Just have a quick 1h and it should be fine.
I'd like more comments on this.
Edited, Mar 27th 2008 10:22am by Sesseth
Scholar
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OK. thanks for the input. I was worried about being flamed for this post LOL
I'll start to look into block ratings instead of dodge etc. To me, dodge only perpetuated the problem of rage generation.
Thank you again for the nice and concise answer.
CC
I'll start to look into block ratings instead of dodge etc. To me, dodge only perpetuated the problem of rage generation.
Thank you again for the nice and concise answer.
CC
I noticed the 'difficulty tanking some of the easier instances' at Kara when tanking Attunment. Now my gear is not super great, but it's full KZ and Gruul's complete, so Attunment is not doing a world of hurt on me (unlike Nightbane still does) :/ Anyway, our backup tank ended up tanking him. I just could not keep up with spamming my abilities.
It was an off-night for me tanking (Tuesday), it seemed like my toolbar was screwed up after the patch, lag was a issue, and Omen is all screwed up too. So I could not see how good or bad my threat was, I tanked him like I have 30 times before, and still came in 2nd place to our OT.
On other KZ bosses I notice periods of dodges/parry/block where my rage dips way down, and barely can keep up spamming devastate and block/revenge :/
It was an off-night for me tanking (Tuesday), it seemed like my toolbar was screwed up after the patch, lag was a issue, and Omen is all screwed up too. So I could not see how good or bad my threat was, I tanked him like I have 30 times before, and still came in 2nd place to our OT.
On other KZ bosses I notice periods of dodges/parry/block where my rage dips way down, and barely can keep up spamming devastate and block/revenge :/
ciderhelm from tankspot has covered this. i was looking for the article but can't find it atm. basically, wowinsider's position on warrior tanks = absolute, total, complete and utter bunk.
when you have so much avoidance that you are rage-starved, all you have to do is replace a few tanking pieces with dps pieces, preferably stuff with hit/expertise/crit/sbv on it.
that's all you have to do.
and btw... don't get your info from wowinsider. apparently, despite being a well-geared tank, he hasn't been able to figure out something that i, a mere T4/T5 tank, was able to figure out before i started raiding:
warriors' effectiveness is gear-dependent... so, if you are overgeared for the situation, scale your gear back a little bit. use dps pieces in place of mitigation.
Edited, Mar 27th 2008 11:35am by fromanthebarbarian
when you have so much avoidance that you are rage-starved, all you have to do is replace a few tanking pieces with dps pieces, preferably stuff with hit/expertise/crit/sbv on it.
that's all you have to do.
and btw... don't get your info from wowinsider. apparently, despite being a well-geared tank, he hasn't been able to figure out something that i, a mere T4/T5 tank, was able to figure out before i started raiding:
warriors' effectiveness is gear-dependent... so, if you are overgeared for the situation, scale your gear back a little bit. use dps pieces in place of mitigation.
Edited, Mar 27th 2008 11:35am by fromanthebarbarian
expertise is actually an absolutely amazing tanking stat. It increases damage, but more importantly it lowers parry rates. Every time a boss parries he attacks faster, this is a good thing to reduce.
It's a very good idea to get a few dps items that you can swap in. Make sure your defense stays above 490 though.
It's a very good idea to get a few dps items that you can swap in. Make sure your defense stays above 490 though.
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Some very nice suggestions - thank all of you for the insightful input.
CC
CC
here's a few more ideas from ciderhelm's post:
1) use less cc. if you're rage-starved tanking 1 mob... tank 2, 3 or 4 at once depending on your gear level. i remember my cousin telling me a story of how his BT guild got bored one night and decided to farm kara for badges and not only short-manned it (can't remember how many, but definitely less than 10), the T6 tank tanked moroes and 3 adds by himself.
2) don't tank. specifically, don't tank caster/healer mobs or weak-hitting mobs in general. have your dps burn right through them while you generate threat on the harder-hitting mobs.
Edited, Mar 27th 2008 12:48pm by fromanthebarbarian
1) use less cc. if you're rage-starved tanking 1 mob... tank 2, 3 or 4 at once depending on your gear level. i remember my cousin telling me a story of how his BT guild got bored one night and decided to farm kara for badges and not only short-manned it (can't remember how many, but definitely less than 10), the T6 tank tanked moroes and 3 adds by himself.
2) don't tank. specifically, don't tank caster/healer mobs or weak-hitting mobs in general. have your dps burn right through them while you generate threat on the harder-hitting mobs.
Edited, Mar 27th 2008 12:48pm by fromanthebarbarian
Even full shield block value for high shield slams can backfire too(t5/badge/ZA gear mix) in a way when you absorb all damage done from a mobs hit so even then its still difficult to tank. A fast weapon and a expertise set probably best way to go.
When I do non heroic instances, I tank almost exclusively in a full DPS set. My DPS set isn't great, but it's definitely getting there (replace offhand dagger with shield).
For heroic instances, if it's a really easy heroic I'll either a) swap in 1 or 2 pieces of DPS gear, or b) CC fewer mobs. CCing fewer mobs is obviously the most fun, but it can require a strong healer, and works best when all the mobs are melees, without many caster mobs. The most I think I've tanked at once is like 5 mobs in heroic shattered halls.
For heroic instances, if it's a really easy heroic I'll either a) swap in 1 or 2 pieces of DPS gear, or b) CC fewer mobs. CCing fewer mobs is obviously the most fun, but it can require a strong healer, and works best when all the mobs are melees, without many caster mobs. The most I think I've tanked at once is like 5 mobs in heroic shattered halls.
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