Greetings,
A good friend of mine is a Paladin and we've formed a 2v2 team. I am a MS warrior (based on the cookie 33/28 with some minor mods) with partial S1 gear. My question essentially is: should he be speccing a type of holy build to focus on healing me or should he be focussing on the ret tree? He's still learning his class, and before posting I did quite a bit of research (here and other places, 2-3 hours worth) and I can't seem to find any real concrete answers for arena builds, especially ones that take the class that a pally is playing with into consideration.
Any advice and /or tips for us from the paladin point of view would be vastly appreciated. The pally forum seems to be one of the friendlier on Alla :)
Thank you.
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Advice needed for 2v2 Pally/MS WarrFollow
To really go far, he should be using a holy/prot build, without one point in Ret. He should have Imp. Concentration aura in protection, thats the only reason to go down it. I have an arena holy paladin build in the FAQ that I will link here. So you can peruse that.
15 posts
Thank you CapJack.
What are the reasons that this build is desireable? Is it only for the healing? I had a look through and studied the pally trees a little since I had them in front of me looking at your build, and it looks like his ability to do much of any damage at all will be going into the toilet. Should his focus shift to being healbot (and should he get the mod called Healbot?) and stunning opponents? What other ablities of his should he be using - I've heard of Blessing of Freedom, so that one springs to my mind when opponents try to kite me etc.
Sorry to come in like a total "n00b" with these questions, well, actually I'm not even a n00b I don't play a paladin at all :P. I just know I hate fighting them with a passion! Fighting a plate wearer that you have to kill about 3 times, all while screaming "just DIE already!" isn't high on my list of WoW fun. (well, not with my rogue alt anyway).
Moving away from ret, I would also assume he should be moving away from STR on any gear - correct? Will INT/STA be his mantra from now on?
Thanks for the help :)
edit: also, how come I see anecdotes sprinkled about that slam Holy Pally's in arena? I wondered if it had to do with them playing with squishy partners perhaps, and not being able to keep up with healing them compared to a preist or something like that. Although fully geared warlocks have about as many HP as my warrior, but ... ?
Cheers
Edited, Mar 27th 2008 11:26am by skulky
What are the reasons that this build is desireable? Is it only for the healing? I had a look through and studied the pally trees a little since I had them in front of me looking at your build, and it looks like his ability to do much of any damage at all will be going into the toilet. Should his focus shift to being healbot (and should he get the mod called Healbot?) and stunning opponents? What other ablities of his should he be using - I've heard of Blessing of Freedom, so that one springs to my mind when opponents try to kite me etc.
Sorry to come in like a total "n00b" with these questions, well, actually I'm not even a n00b I don't play a paladin at all :P. I just know I hate fighting them with a passion! Fighting a plate wearer that you have to kill about 3 times, all while screaming "just DIE already!" isn't high on my list of WoW fun. (well, not with my rogue alt anyway).
Moving away from ret, I would also assume he should be moving away from STR on any gear - correct? Will INT/STA be his mantra from now on?
Thanks for the help :)
edit: also, how come I see anecdotes sprinkled about that slam Holy Pally's in arena? I wondered if it had to do with them playing with squishy partners perhaps, and not being able to keep up with healing them compared to a preist or something like that. Although fully geared warlocks have about as many HP as my warrior, but ... ?
Cheers
Edited, Mar 27th 2008 11:26am by skulky
skulky wrote:
also, how come I see anecdotes sprinkled about that slam Holy Pally's in arena?
If Healadin Arena viability is getting badmouthed, it's likely only in smaller formats--2s and to some extent 3s). They only have 1 instant-cast heal that I know of, Holy Shock, and it's on a c/d. Too much attention is paid to a healadin in 2s for them to get off any meaningful heals. Too many interrupts available to most classes these days. And once their bubble is blown, they become quite squishy.
My advice? Find a druid or priest and have your friend go ret for 3s. Seems like we're starting to see more rets in 3s these days--though I hate it as a mage, I think it's pretty cool overall.
15 posts
Hm, ok... I think?
So does that still mean that the above build would still be better (relatively speaking) in our 2s team than a ret based build?
Is wiser for us to both focus fire on the healer when the gates open (which would have him as ret right? or no?) or is it all about him keeping my alive while I smash both targets?
So does that still mean that the above build would still be better (relatively speaking) in our 2s team than a ret based build?
Is wiser for us to both focus fire on the healer when the gates open (which would have him as ret right? or no?) or is it all about him keeping my alive while I smash both targets?
Pasted from what i wrote in the warrior forum on a topic almost identical:
like i said in the last paragraph, changes have been made this patch that may improve holy pallies in 2s and 3s. druids have also been nerfed a little. If you want to be a monster in 2v2 id suggest a druid partner. if you and your friend want to have fun and still try to be good I think you could get by with either ret or holy tbh. But the arena is an everychanging event and what is good now wont necessarily be good in a month. You have to adapt.
another post in that thread:
Edited, Mar 27th 2008 9:14am by KTurner
I wrote:
Since the end of season 1, holy paladins have become less than fantastic in both 2v2 and 3v3. Ret has actually become "better" than it was. However, to pull off the ret build you gotta have some good gear. if your friend was willing to jump into BGs and get all the S1 and vindicator's gear i think you would have a shot.
Personally i dunno how well ret+war would do, ive been out of the arena this last season and havent really seen what comps are out there, mainly druid+war/rogue/lock though i'm guessing. Ret pally is kinda the "anti druid" with the ability to keep the druid from running via JoJustice. They also do well against melee opponents. The ability to cleanse most of the warlock damage also looks good.
TBH, i really dunno and im just talking, but if you are good you could have some success with ret i think as long as he's got some gear. In my head it looks like like a good counter-comp to the popular teams. There are some changes coming in 2.4 that might affect a holy paladins success, mainly reductions on mana draining abilities.
Personally i dunno how well ret+war would do, ive been out of the arena this last season and havent really seen what comps are out there, mainly druid+war/rogue/lock though i'm guessing. Ret pally is kinda the "anti druid" with the ability to keep the druid from running via JoJustice. They also do well against melee opponents. The ability to cleanse most of the warlock damage also looks good.
TBH, i really dunno and im just talking, but if you are good you could have some success with ret i think as long as he's got some gear. In my head it looks like like a good counter-comp to the popular teams. There are some changes coming in 2.4 that might affect a holy paladins success, mainly reductions on mana draining abilities.
like i said in the last paragraph, changes have been made this patch that may improve holy pallies in 2s and 3s. druids have also been nerfed a little. If you want to be a monster in 2v2 id suggest a druid partner. if you and your friend want to have fun and still try to be good I think you could get by with either ret or holy tbh. But the arena is an everychanging event and what is good now wont necessarily be good in a month. You have to adapt.
another post in that thread:
Quor wrote:
war/ret pally is about the hardest counter to a druid+1 combo you can find, the exceptions being druid+mage (which are pretty uncommon). make sure the pally is human (perc helps loads) and he just rides around looking for the druid with sader aura on. soon as he finds the druid, he judges justice on him and the war and pally just go to town on the druid, utilizing a combo of BoF on the warrior and DS on the pally to keep pressure up on the druid.
the druid HAS to stay in bear or else get destroyed immediately. the druids ally has to find a way to peel both the warrior and the pally off the druid, which for every class but mage is not an easy thing to do.
but pretty much anything with a mage is going to beat you. a ret paladin doesnt have the mana to spam cleanse to keep nova and poly off. a good frost mage could quite possibly take an arms war and ret pally 1v2.
the druid HAS to stay in bear or else get destroyed immediately. the druids ally has to find a way to peel both the warrior and the pally off the druid, which for every class but mage is not an easy thing to do.
but pretty much anything with a mage is going to beat you. a ret paladin doesnt have the mana to spam cleanse to keep nova and poly off. a good frost mage could quite possibly take an arms war and ret pally 1v2.
Edited, Mar 27th 2008 9:14am by KTurner
I ran into this combo on tuesday on my rogue, My 2v2 consists of 2 ShS rouges. we ended up getting this same team a few times. I found this combo to be an easy kill with the right tactics.
How we did it:
Sap warrior and both jumped on the pally, if sap was broken we double blinded the warrior and forced pally to bubble.
When the pally bubbles, vanish and wait it out then CC warrior and burn pally down, leaving warrior all by himself
So there is a little inside view, hope it will help.
How we did it:
Sap warrior and both jumped on the pally, if sap was broken we double blinded the warrior and forced pally to bubble.
When the pally bubbles, vanish and wait it out then CC warrior and burn pally down, leaving warrior all by himself
So there is a little inside view, hope it will help.
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