I just thought I'd throw a question out there asking how long it took everyone to get Kara ready once they hit 70. The sticky has shown me the path I need to take, I'm just wondering on the distance required. : )
2k RAP seems way, WAY too far away for me to ever get done before WoTLK. I play casually, and am only looking to try Kara a few times, get a few epics, and get to be part of my guild a bit more. Not very serious about it, but I would like to experience it. This doesn't mean I won't be ready for it though... Pots + flasks + scrolls + foods + good ammo + others. I'm a consumable *****.
Also, I don't have any of the keys yet, but I guess 2.4 will mean I won't need them anymore? I don't know if getting keyed takes longer than getting the actual gear.
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- How long did it take to get Kara ready?
How long did it take to get Kara ready?Follow
Remember that you have to modify the "minimum" demands to your raidgroup. If your guildmates are good geared, you can slack a little bit on the demands. The same goes the other way. If your entire guild are low geared, you guys can't drag slackers in the raid.
Personally it took me two days. I just ran through a crapton of quests during those days, and had some friends help me quickly with attunement.
Personally it took me two days. I just ran through a crapton of quests during those days, and had some friends help me quickly with attunement.
Keying for Kara is a lot shorter of a process than actually gearing. While I was prolly geared 2-3 months after I hit 70.
I was not confident in my skills until I ran with a group in SV that was impressed with how I played and invited me to Kara.
I had decided to join them in their raid when they asked me but I told them I wasn't sure if my gear was on par as I hadn't reached the 2k RAP I was aiming for and my crit was only at 17%.
We did well and I have been only improving my gear sense then.
Now my RAP is around 1400-1500(maybe higher... Haven't actually looked at my stats in a while.) and my crit is at 21% roughly.
Also recently reached teh ability to be hitcapped on raid bosses instead of only on 70's.
I'll do an armory check and give you more accurate stats. Though I can honestly say of the people who are active in my guild I am the best geared hunter =D
*EDIT* 1527 RAP and 22.47% crit.
going to replace a few gems with +hit gems to get myself hitcapped without the use of terokkar's tablet of precision and leather shoulders I have in my bank. (Don't need 111 hit with surefooted)
Edited, Mar 25th 2008 9:55am by HitashLevat
I was not confident in my skills until I ran with a group in SV that was impressed with how I played and invited me to Kara.
I had decided to join them in their raid when they asked me but I told them I wasn't sure if my gear was on par as I hadn't reached the 2k RAP I was aiming for and my crit was only at 17%.
We did well and I have been only improving my gear sense then.
Now my RAP is around 1400-1500(maybe higher... Haven't actually looked at my stats in a while.) and my crit is at 21% roughly.
Also recently reached teh ability to be hitcapped on raid bosses instead of only on 70's.
I'll do an armory check and give you more accurate stats. Though I can honestly say of the people who are active in my guild I am the best geared hunter =D
*EDIT* 1527 RAP and 22.47% crit.
going to replace a few gems with +hit gems to get myself hitcapped without the use of terokkar's tablet of precision and leather shoulders I have in my bank. (Don't need 111 hit with surefooted)
Edited, Mar 25th 2008 9:55am by HitashLevat
Well... depends. If you mean gear-wise, a few weeks. If you mean performance-wise...
The minimum DPS required for kara is 500. I did ~523 DPS on the demon boss in ramps at 62. Needless to say, I could pull more than my weight in kara by the time I hit 70, but few are keen to let people in leveling greens get EZ epix.
Where'd you get 2k RAP from? I had 1.2k when I dinged 70, selfbuffed.
The minimum DPS required for kara is 500. I did ~523 DPS on the demon boss in ramps at 62. Needless to say, I could pull more than my weight in kara by the time I hit 70, but few are keen to let people in leveling greens get EZ epix.
Where'd you get 2k RAP from? I had 1.2k when I dinged 70, selfbuffed.
Quote:
Where'd you get 2k RAP from? I had 1.2k when I dinged 70, selfbuffed.
From the sticky. Apparently 2k RAP will be enough for all of Kara, which is what I'm aiming for I guess.
Quote:
Personally it took me two days. I just ran through a crapton of quests during those days, and had some friends help me quickly with attunement.
Hmmm. I would really like to know where I can quest to be Kara geared. As I said before, I play pretty casually, and don't have time to instance much. I might get one, MAYBE two in a week. I'm also not very lucky with drops. ><
I guess my best bet would be to get Fel gear? Making golds is easier than finding good groups to run instances with IMO, and would probably require less time. Otherwise, I'm going for the beast lord set and hope for good drops.
/sigh. I'm 70 and raiding seems SO far away. I really want to just get in there and experience the whole thing. Seems like fun.
Quote:
Hmmm. I would really like to know where I can quest to be Kara geared. As I said before, I play pretty casually, and don't have time to instance much. I might get one, MAYBE two in a week. I'm also not very lucky with drops. ><
I guess my best bet would be to get Fel gear? Making golds is easier than finding good groups to run instances with IMO, and would probably require less time. Otherwise, I'm going for the beast lord set and hope for good drops.
/sigh. I'm 70 and raiding seems SO far away. I really want to just get in there and experience the whole thing. Seems like fun.
I guess my best bet would be to get Fel gear? Making golds is easier than finding good groups to run instances with IMO, and would probably require less time. Otherwise, I'm going for the beast lord set and hope for good drops.
/sigh. I'm 70 and raiding seems SO far away. I really want to just get in there and experience the whole thing. Seems like fun.
I don't think you can really gear for Kara off quests. Try getting at lesat 2 pieces of your Beastlord set to start. Maybe 2 pieces of the desolation. (Preferably the ones with the most +hit to them)
Instancing is really the only way to get geared well. Also. Pick up the new version of the PVP Non set epic Items. those 3 should be good enough that you won't need to worry about other things for those slots. I found getting boots were slightly harder to get than any other piece.. well that and bracers so get those pvp epic items and you should be good.
There is a quest in Honor Hold for Shattered Halls that gives a nice Blue belt. No pre req.
Also if you don't have them yet get terroks quill or Sonic spear. Terrok's quill is a sure fire item to get. A quest reward out of Sethekk Halls. Sonic spear... you'll prolly skip that one for the S3 axe or be ripping your eyes out trying to get it. (Might get lucky and get it off the first kill on murmur.)
Try to follow aethiens guide the best you can. You'll be geared in no time.
Felstalker is fast and cheap. Then check the Pre-raid gearlist from our resident tweakmonkey Aethien to fill out the rest of the slots. The gearlist will show you several items per slot, and one or more of those will be from quests.
Do the research through Alla and WoWwiki on each item you fancy, and you'll find out how fast you can get each item.
In theory, you won't have to instance once to get Kara ready, but it sure helps out. Pick up Valanos and Disco Axe from the AH, along with Felstalker unless you are a leatherworker, and you will have gotten a decent start.
Do the research through Alla and WoWwiki on each item you fancy, and you'll find out how fast you can get each item.
In theory, you won't have to instance once to get Kara ready, but it sure helps out. Pick up Valanos and Disco Axe from the AH, along with Felstalker unless you are a leatherworker, and you will have gotten a decent start.
14 hours. I was mostly ready before I hit 70. Had all of my honor saved up for my full S1. Had my cape, boots, necklace, rings, trinkets, belt, and my bow. I just had to farm a little but for some cash for all of my chants.
Even though it's pretty easy to get 2k RAP as a MM hunter before Kara (with Hawk and TSA), keep in mind that you don't need to be as high as the guide says.
When I went into Kara for the first time, I had a little over 2000 RAP as a MM, and dropped to just under 1600 when I respecc'ed to BM. I was second on the damage charts, just barely under a fully epic'ed Enhancement Shaman.
Just take the stats as something to aim for as you start to see the last few bosses in the instance. If you don't achieve them until after running it a few times and getting epics from it, don't worry. As long as you're pulling your weight, that's all that matters
When I went into Kara for the first time, I had a little over 2000 RAP as a MM, and dropped to just under 1600 when I respecc'ed to BM. I was second on the damage charts, just barely under a fully epic'ed Enhancement Shaman.
Just take the stats as something to aim for as you start to see the last few bosses in the instance. If you don't achieve them until after running it a few times and getting epics from it, don't worry. As long as you're pulling your weight, that's all that matters
Pre-Raid sticky wrote:
Note: these stats are to aim for, they are relatively high and generally high enough for the whole of karazhan.
Dont be afraid to do whatever you can to get their though ;)
Dont be afraid to do whatever you can to get their though ;)
I thought 2k was unbuffed, as in no hawk or aura.
Am i rite?
Otherwise, I think I will go with fel leather set. I already have S1 shoulders and head, and should have S3 melee weapon, with the valanos bow. I also looked at the guide, and it seems like rings will be quest/bought, neck will be quest, and a few others too.
We'll see how much gear I can pick up this weekend. : )
Am i rite?
Otherwise, I think I will go with fel leather set. I already have S1 shoulders and head, and should have S3 melee weapon, with the valanos bow. I also looked at the guide, and it seems like rings will be quest/bought, neck will be quest, and a few others too.
We'll see how much gear I can pick up this weekend. : )
2k AP unbuffed, pre-kara? That can't me true... although I've always considered myself above stickies, so you'd know better than I if you actually read it.
Utarius wrote:
2k AP unbuffed, pre-kara? That can't me true... although I've always considered myself above stickies, so you'd know better than I if you actually read it.
You would pretty much be at 2k rap if you'd spec MM.
For BM its set at 1700 AP and 20% crit, so you are only low on crit (wich should be fixed if you regem to agility gems wich you should do imo)
And its numbers for the whole of karazhan so thats expecting you have a couple of epics (as you have).
With for example the badge necklace you would also get a lot closer to hitcap, and imo you focus way to much on Mp5.
You have more then twice my Mp5 and i'm in a mix of some left over blues, karazhan gear and SSC/TK gear.
I also only have 43 more AP then you have, but 6.82% more crit and 5.39% more +hit.
The difference the crit and hit make however is quite insane.
each % of crit is an additional ~1.33% dps and each % of hit is ~1% dps.
That adds up to a total of close to 15% more dps.
The bit of ignore armor i have and the fact that with WSR i can run a much smoother shooting cycle make up for the rest of the dps difference we would see between us.
Oh my, i got a bit carried away there didnt i? :P
Aethien wrote:
Utarius wrote:
2k AP unbuffed, pre-kara? That can't me true... although I've always considered myself above stickies, so you'd know better than I if you actually read it.
You would pretty much be at 2k rap if you'd spec MM.
Bah, if you spec MM for raids you phail already ;)
Aethien wrote:
For BM its set at 1700 AP and 20% crit, so you are only low on crit (wich should be fixed if you regem to agility gems wich you should do imo)
And its numbers for the whole of karazhan so thats expecting you have a couple of epics (as you have).
And its numbers for the whole of karazhan so thats expecting you have a couple of epics (as you have).
Oh ok... the whole of kara is a lot different from starting kara :P (and you know my opinion on AP vs. agi ;) )
Aethien wrote:
With for example the badge necklace you would also get a lot closer to hitcap, and imo you focus way to much on Mp5.
It's not like my char isn't retired atm, but I'm spoiling for a fight, so alright ;)
Haven't played since before kara got badge drops. Needless to say, I didn't stand to farm badges after I got my cloak. Even if I did the trink would be next on my list.
Now, I don't focus on MP5. First off, note that I'm in farming gear. Second, the gear I wear (in general rather than at the moment...) is what I've found is best. I could get a +crit shoulder enchant though... other than that I don't have much intentional MP5. The gems in the head is merely because I deemed 32AP + 3 MP5 > 36 AP... though I can't think of why atm.
I agree with the +hit though, and if memory serves me right I've got a +hit set so that I can swap in pieces of that if I think I'm missing a lot.
Aethien wrote:
You have more then twice my Mp5 and i'm in a mix of some left over blues, karazhan gear and SSC/TK gear.
I also only have 43 more AP then you have, but 6.82% more crit and 5.39% more +hit.
I also only have 43 more AP then you have, but 6.82% more crit and 5.39% more +hit.
I don't know if you've noticed... if not this is probably a good time to mention the ridiculous gear difference between us :)
Aethien wrote:
each % of crit is an additional ~1.33% dps and each % of hit is ~1% dps.
I think you mean the other way around?
Aethien wrote:
The bit of ignore armor i have and the fact that with WSR i can run a much smoother shooting cycle make up for the rest of the dps difference we would see between us.
Oh my, i got a bit carried away there didnt i? :P
Indeed you did... :P I don't recall mentioning anything about you and me measuring DPS. If I were however, I'm sure you remember my 1337 5l<||Z. So, you wouldn't dare presume that you do more DPS than me even considering the gear gap.
Ammarite?!
I was kind of pointing on you focusing to much on AP.
(yes, no matter what you say regemming to all agility gems will most likely increase your dps.)
(yes, no matter what you say regemming to all agility gems will most likely increase your dps.)
Alright, I'll try to put an end to this once again. I've made statements several times about this, but you (guys) continue to slap me down even though I bring maths as proof. It's on now mannie, no mercy for you!
I've got the following stats:
1785AP.
520agi.
16.92% crit (19.458% after Mortal Shots-multiplier).
3.0 speed.
199 avg dmg.
Which yields (Auto Shot stats!):
382.5 dmg added from AP.
581.5 total weapon dmg.
694.64827 after crit.
I'm gonna break this down very easily, calculating Auto Shots and Steady Shots. This represents around 70% of my personal DPS (read: pet excluded), and I won't include Arcane Shot and Multi-Shot because everyone knows that Arcane scales better with AP and Multi- scales better with crit.
We all know how Auto Shot is calculated (and I've just calculated it up there), however; this is a simplified SS formula: [((150 + Weapon Damage / Weapon Speed * 2.8) + (0.2 * RAP)) * Crit Multiplyer]
Now it's just to put the numbers in there.
[((150 + 199 / 3 * 2.8) + (0.2 * 1785)) * 1.19458]
[(335.73333 + 357) * 1.19458]
Average SS: 827.52538.
Alright, now I'm about to do something in great favor to you. Take a look at this:
I've got 6 AP gems and 3 AP enchants replaceable with a agi counterpart. However, I'm gonna go one better than just exchanging to counter parts; I'm gonna change ALL gems (both +12AP and +6AP, +1MP5) to the agi counterpart of +6agi. Needless to say, this will benefit the agi case more than it will the AP case.
Also note:
Weapon: Savagery -> +35agi. Fair.
Wrist: +24 AP -> +12agi. Fair.
Hands: +26 AP -> +15agi. Not Fair.
In terms of gemming and enchanting, 1agi = 2AP. The hand enchant favors the agi-case.
Basically, I exchange 150AP for 86agi. The numbers will now look like this:
1721AP.
606agi.
19.07% crit (21.9305% after MS).
199 avg dmg.
Which yields (again, Auto stats):
368.78571 dmg added from AP.
567.78571 total weapon dmg.
692.30396 dmg after crit.
And for SS:
[((150 + 199 / 3 * 2.8) + (0.2 * 1721)) * 1.219305]
[(335.73333 + 344.2) * 1.219305]
Average SS: 829.04611
Conclusion: Auto did not improve, SS did. And that's with some pretty large favors to the +agi case.
While skimming through this for a few sec I realized I forgot the ranged enchant I've got, but since weapon damage is static in all equations in all cases it wouldn't have changed the difference in the outcome, but merely increased all the numbers equally in comparison to eachother. I'm sure might have missed something else, but pretty sure it's nothing big.
Now, once again I've brought proof to the table that if 1agi = 2AP in terms of gemming and enchanting; 2AP > 1agi.
I do not want you to just discard the math I've done here. I want you to look through it and really search for any math error. If you do not find any, I think I am right in saying that all the math is correct. Do you not?
I also want you to bring math to the table why +agi is better for you (unless you're SV...). Don't get me wrong about that; solid math, based on your characters. Not the mindless shit you usually give me like "LOLZ CHEEKY TOLDED ME SO!". I'm sick of that.
Xsarus is free to chime in with the same, since I know you're both very adept at the hunter class. I do respect your opinions, and it's fine by me if you simply prefer agi because it makes you crit more often or whatever reason. As long as it's not because it increases your DPS more, because according to my math it doesn't.
You've really had me on a roll for this on man. I'm gonna stop before I throw out any macro-monkey insults in my rage. About the last remark you made though:
I've said just this. Regemming did would not increase my DPS, and no matter what you say, this math is proof until you can prove it wrong. I never see you do any calculations about this stuff, merely the "I was told so my Cheeky" remark. I don't know whether it's because you're too lazy to sit down and do it thoroughly (I know Xsarus is... he always was lazy... just likes to be told what to do, though apparently not by me) or not. In any case I'm going to ask you to put your back into it now and give me some real arguments to work with here.
I'm not sure where Mulgrin stands in this, but he's free to chime in with opinions backed up with facts (read: maths) too. The guy wrote a sticky, so he ought to know something about the class.
I'm gonna keep being mad at you until you prove me wrong or apologize for being so, Æthien. While my anger might not be the most serious thing in the world, I hope it will make to look over what I've done instead of just discarding it.
I've got the following stats:
1785AP.
520agi.
16.92% crit (19.458% after Mortal Shots-multiplier).
3.0 speed.
199 avg dmg.
Which yields (Auto Shot stats!):
382.5 dmg added from AP.
581.5 total weapon dmg.
694.64827 after crit.
I'm gonna break this down very easily, calculating Auto Shots and Steady Shots. This represents around 70% of my personal DPS (read: pet excluded), and I won't include Arcane Shot and Multi-Shot because everyone knows that Arcane scales better with AP and Multi- scales better with crit.
We all know how Auto Shot is calculated (and I've just calculated it up there), however; this is a simplified SS formula: [((150 + Weapon Damage / Weapon Speed * 2.8) + (0.2 * RAP)) * Crit Multiplyer]
Now it's just to put the numbers in there.
[((150 + 199 / 3 * 2.8) + (0.2 * 1785)) * 1.19458]
[(335.73333 + 357) * 1.19458]
Average SS: 827.52538.
Alright, now I'm about to do something in great favor to you. Take a look at this:
I've got 6 AP gems and 3 AP enchants replaceable with a agi counterpart. However, I'm gonna go one better than just exchanging to counter parts; I'm gonna change ALL gems (both +12AP and +6AP, +1MP5) to the agi counterpart of +6agi. Needless to say, this will benefit the agi case more than it will the AP case.
Also note:
Weapon: Savagery -> +35agi. Fair.
Wrist: +24 AP -> +12agi. Fair.
Hands: +26 AP -> +15agi. Not Fair.
In terms of gemming and enchanting, 1agi = 2AP. The hand enchant favors the agi-case.
Basically, I exchange 150AP for 86agi. The numbers will now look like this:
1721AP.
606agi.
19.07% crit (21.9305% after MS).
199 avg dmg.
Which yields (again, Auto stats):
368.78571 dmg added from AP.
567.78571 total weapon dmg.
692.30396 dmg after crit.
And for SS:
[((150 + 199 / 3 * 2.8) + (0.2 * 1721)) * 1.219305]
[(335.73333 + 344.2) * 1.219305]
Average SS: 829.04611
Conclusion: Auto did not improve, SS did. And that's with some pretty large favors to the +agi case.
While skimming through this for a few sec I realized I forgot the ranged enchant I've got, but since weapon damage is static in all equations in all cases it wouldn't have changed the difference in the outcome, but merely increased all the numbers equally in comparison to eachother. I'm sure might have missed something else, but pretty sure it's nothing big.
Now, once again I've brought proof to the table that if 1agi = 2AP in terms of gemming and enchanting; 2AP > 1agi.
I do not want you to just discard the math I've done here. I want you to look through it and really search for any math error. If you do not find any, I think I am right in saying that all the math is correct. Do you not?
I also want you to bring math to the table why +agi is better for you (unless you're SV...). Don't get me wrong about that; solid math, based on your characters. Not the mindless shit you usually give me like "LOLZ CHEEKY TOLDED ME SO!". I'm sick of that.
Xsarus is free to chime in with the same, since I know you're both very adept at the hunter class. I do respect your opinions, and it's fine by me if you simply prefer agi because it makes you crit more often or whatever reason. As long as it's not because it increases your DPS more, because according to my math it doesn't.
You've really had me on a roll for this on man. I'm gonna stop before I throw out any macro-monkey insults in my rage. About the last remark you made though:
I've said just this. Regemming did would not increase my DPS, and no matter what you say, this math is proof until you can prove it wrong. I never see you do any calculations about this stuff, merely the "I was told so my Cheeky" remark. I don't know whether it's because you're too lazy to sit down and do it thoroughly (I know Xsarus is... he always was lazy... just likes to be told what to do, though apparently not by me) or not. In any case I'm going to ask you to put your back into it now and give me some real arguments to work with here.
I'm not sure where Mulgrin stands in this, but he's free to chime in with opinions backed up with facts (read: maths) too. The guy wrote a sticky, so he ought to know something about the class.
I'm gonna keep being mad at you until you prove me wrong or apologize for being so, Æthien. While my anger might not be the most serious thing in the world, I hope it will make to look over what I've done instead of just discarding it.
I think I've been hi-jacked. : (
Well, I believe I'm going for the fel set to get Kara ready, although I will be doing one steamvaults run(at least) this weekend for a chance at the shoulders and leggings.
Also with the derail, I'm unsure as to whether I should be speccing into agil or AP. I know I have to go hit rating until the cap though, so first things first...
Well, I believe I'm going for the fel set to get Kara ready, although I will be doing one steamvaults run(at least) this weekend for a chance at the shoulders and leggings.
Also with the derail, I'm unsure as to whether I should be speccing into agil or AP. I know I have to go hit rating until the cap though, so first things first...
Aethien wrote:
So a guy at Allakhazam keeps saying that 2 attack power is a larger increase in dps then 1 agility.
No matter where you are in progression.
No matter where you are in progression.
Don't spread misinformation like that... I've never said that AP > agi where ever you are in progression, in fact I believe I said the exact opposite a while back. I've only ever said that AP is better for ME where I am (since you've all been telling me to regem and all that). I've also said that you can't determine a breakpoint for AP vs. agi using tooltip DPS (like someone was trying to do a while back...).
Now, I know how AP and crit interact with each other. I do admit it was sloppy to leave out raid buff though... However, I also leave out the pet scaling. Shouldn't that have quite an impact for BM hunters at least.
Ah well... I'm not up for arguing with the whole of TKA, since most of there are probably a lot more adept that I am. I just know that if 1agi = 2AP, then AP > agi for me. At least at the moment.
Oh, and say hello to Lactose for me. Good old Talnivarrian... I did actually do an instance with him once. Like Heroic UB or SP, on Tyrana.
Utarius, with your gear, you probably want to gem AP although the AP/mp5 gems are wasted. The reason AP works so well for you is due to the overall low quality of the gear, especially your weapon. I've always maintained you gem agility into your epics.
Static math is not really valuable. As you get more AP each % of crit is more valuable as the double damage is increased. This goes the other way in that as you get more crit each point of AP is more valuable. The actual answer for the AP vs Agility debate is a line that balances these two variables. Now as you get epic gear, the itemization is such that with BoK agility gems are better. If you want to do useful math, use a weapon like the new crossbow pretty much the de facto weapon now, and use variables instead of numbers for the existing AP and crit, as that will let you create a graph. Using a set number of gems is really not very useful aside from in one particular case, ie: your own personal gear. This is the reason I've never directly addressed your math, it's not useful. Here is a link to similar work done for a druid
For some reason you don't like cheeky's spreadsheet, and I don't know why. He uses the formula's you like so much, and all the work is laid out for you in the formula page. It's really straight forward. You can also go and read up on it in the EJ forums if you wish.
In the end, the difference between Agility gems and AP gems is really really small, even with good gear. With my current gear swapping out an agility gem for an AP gem would lower my dps by around .2 dps
Edited, Mar 26th 2008 5:26pm by Xsarus
Static math is not really valuable. As you get more AP each % of crit is more valuable as the double damage is increased. This goes the other way in that as you get more crit each point of AP is more valuable. The actual answer for the AP vs Agility debate is a line that balances these two variables. Now as you get epic gear, the itemization is such that with BoK agility gems are better. If you want to do useful math, use a weapon like the new crossbow pretty much the de facto weapon now, and use variables instead of numbers for the existing AP and crit, as that will let you create a graph. Using a set number of gems is really not very useful aside from in one particular case, ie: your own personal gear. This is the reason I've never directly addressed your math, it's not useful. Here is a link to similar work done for a druid
For some reason you don't like cheeky's spreadsheet, and I don't know why. He uses the formula's you like so much, and all the work is laid out for you in the formula page. It's really straight forward. You can also go and read up on it in the EJ forums if you wish.
In the end, the difference between Agility gems and AP gems is really really small, even with good gear. With my current gear swapping out an agility gem for an AP gem would lower my dps by around .2 dps
Edited, Mar 26th 2008 5:26pm by Xsarus
01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
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I know the gems aren't as good as they could be. As I said: At the time I was thinking 32AP + 3MP5 > 36AP... although why I thought that escapes me atm.
I have nothing against Cheeky or his spreadsheet. It might just be me using an open source excel, but I can't see the formulas you told me you could in a post a while back. That's really the only problem I had with it; not being able to see how things are calculated.
As for the math point:
Yes I use static math, it sure took you long enough to figure out that was the reason you ignore it though. Now, look; I'm seventeen years old and am currently reading the B-course in math. I'm at the point where I understand graphs, but have only a clue or two about how to actually make one. I might check it out and try to make one... my math teacher says I need to do more calculations on my free time anyway :P
What's been getting me worked up is that everyone started saying that agi > AP. I did some math and came up with that not holding true to my case. People persist that I'm wrong even though there aren't any flaws in my maths (which are adressing MY case, mind you). Then the spreadsheet comes up... and apparently that's supposed to show me that agi > AP. However, I use an open source program so I can't run my exact case through the sheet. However, if it were to tell me that agi is better than AP for me... it'd obviously be wrong, wouldn't it?
I'm sick of arguing about this anyway. At least I've gotten confirmation that I'm right about my case. Slightly better than I usually do.
I have nothing against Cheeky or his spreadsheet. It might just be me using an open source excel, but I can't see the formulas you told me you could in a post a while back. That's really the only problem I had with it; not being able to see how things are calculated.
As for the math point:
Yes I use static math, it sure took you long enough to figure out that was the reason you ignore it though. Now, look; I'm seventeen years old and am currently reading the B-course in math. I'm at the point where I understand graphs, but have only a clue or two about how to actually make one. I might check it out and try to make one... my math teacher says I need to do more calculations on my free time anyway :P
What's been getting me worked up is that everyone started saying that agi > AP. I did some math and came up with that not holding true to my case. People persist that I'm wrong even though there aren't any flaws in my maths (which are adressing MY case, mind you). Then the spreadsheet comes up... and apparently that's supposed to show me that agi > AP. However, I use an open source program so I can't run my exact case through the sheet. However, if it were to tell me that agi is better than AP for me... it'd obviously be wrong, wouldn't it?
I'm sick of arguing about this anyway. At least I've gotten confirmation that I'm right about my case. Slightly better than I usually do.
Utarius wrote:
Aethien wrote:
So a guy at Allakhazam keeps saying that 2 attack power is a larger increase in dps then 1 agility.
No matter where you are in progression.
No matter where you are in progression.
Don't spread misinformation like that... I've never said that AP > agi where ever you are in progression, in fact I believe I said the exact opposite a while back.
Edited, Mar 27th 2008 10:39am by Aethien
Aethien wrote:
Utarius wrote:
Aethien wrote:
So a guy at Allakhazam keeps saying that 2 attack power is a larger increase in dps then 1 agility.
No matter where you are in progression.
No matter where you are in progression.
Don't spread misinformation like that... I've never said that AP > agi where ever you are in progression, in fact I believe I said the exact opposite a while back.
That was a spreadsheet I made. I also said that one of my static calculations showed different results, thus making me uncertain on the sheet's reliability. I'm not a big math wiz at spreadsheets and graphs, but there is stuff I do know how to handle. I've simply only said that the breakpoint is not at 300 TTDPS. Nor is it measurable with TTDPS. I've also said that I'm not on the breakpoint, but never that there isn't one. I might've said that my sheet indicated that, but I believe I proved my sheet faulty in the very same thread.
/popcorn.
Munch. Crunch. /picks teeth.
Munch. Crunch. /picks teeth.
baveux wrote:
The debate has been good I think though. You did make me redo a lot of my math and throw a lot of it out simply due to the fact that I wasn't taking into account the effect RAP has on crit and vice versa.
Another reason agility is preferred is due to the amount of AP you get at raid time. my AP is usually boosted by
220 - Might
120 - assault
440 - Hunter's Mark (although I'm not sure if refreshing the mark refreshes the RAP boost. Anyone know? in this case it would average out to ~397 RAP assuming one shot per second, more hunters = faster)
20 - warp burger
155 - hawk.
That's a total of 955 not counting the RAP boost you get from BoK, which scales with agility. (955*2.8)/14 = 191. this means that every % of crit now adds an additional 191 damage which makes it that much more effective. When you count each Agi stone as 8.8 AP and .22% crit, then this starts really adding up. If there were less pure AP boosts for raiders, this would be less effective.
Edited, Mar 27th 2008 11:41am by Xsarus
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You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
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Well, I was having some fun. so I made a spreadsheet. it has two pages one for steady shot and one for auto shot. I used the badge crossbow for the numbers.
weapon damage is 260.5
X = RAP + 955 (static buffs)
Y = crit multiplier so 25% crit Y = 1.25
[((150 + Weapon Damage / Weapon Speed * 2.8) + (0.2 * RAP)) * Crit Multiplyer]
SS = ((150+260.5)+(.2*X))(Y*1.15)
= Y*((410.5*1.15) + (.2*1.15*X))
= Y*(472.075 + .23*X)
[(Weapon Damage+arrowdamage + (RAP * Weapon Speed / 14)) * Crit Multiplyer]
auto = (260.5 + 46.5 + (X*2.8/14))(Y*1.15)
= Y*(307 + .2*X)(1.15
= Y*(353.05 + .23*X)
The way the sheet works is that you take your crit and RAP values with BoK/agi totem/feral crit boost but no other buffs. Then moving diagonally up and right is the same as replacing an AP gem with a AGI gem. and diagonally down and left is the reverse. Feel free to adjust the number I add to the RAP to reflect the buffs you feel you will have, ie: kara you might not have both BoK and might. Another thing you might want to remember is that this does not incorporate the boosts you get from trinkets. For instance the bloodlust brooch gives around 46 AP when averaged over 2 min. Also all Proc on effects such as the hourglass/GftT/kill command are not factored in but are better with more agi/crit.
Spreadsheet
if you want to change the +RAP from buffs use this one, but it doesn't have nice colouring.
Edited, Mar 27th 2008 1:53pm by Xsarus
weapon damage is 260.5
X = RAP + 955 (static buffs)
Y = crit multiplier so 25% crit Y = 1.25
[((150 + Weapon Damage / Weapon Speed * 2.8) + (0.2 * RAP)) * Crit Multiplyer]
SS = ((150+260.5)+(.2*X))(Y*1.15)
= Y*((410.5*1.15) + (.2*1.15*X))
= Y*(472.075 + .23*X)
[(Weapon Damage+arrowdamage + (RAP * Weapon Speed / 14)) * Crit Multiplyer]
auto = (260.5 + 46.5 + (X*2.8/14))(Y*1.15)
= Y*(307 + .2*X)(1.15
= Y*(353.05 + .23*X)
The way the sheet works is that you take your crit and RAP values with BoK/agi totem/feral crit boost but no other buffs. Then moving diagonally up and right is the same as replacing an AP gem with a AGI gem. and diagonally down and left is the reverse. Feel free to adjust the number I add to the RAP to reflect the buffs you feel you will have, ie: kara you might not have both BoK and might. Another thing you might want to remember is that this does not incorporate the boosts you get from trinkets. For instance the bloodlust brooch gives around 46 AP when averaged over 2 min. Also all Proc on effects such as the hourglass/GftT/kill command are not factored in but are better with more agi/crit.
Spreadsheet
if you want to change the +RAP from buffs use this one, but it doesn't have nice colouring.
Edited, Mar 27th 2008 1:53pm by Xsarus
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You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
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You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
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