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#1 Mar 23 2008 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
Ok, I was wondering if I could have any help on playing a rogue well. I currently have my account frozen until Summer, and I plan to probably re-spec, maybe re-gear a bit, since I will come back rusty to playing, and can, as a result, learn a new tactic better. All I can really say is, I'm kinda at the middle of dps charts in Kara, under a shammy or warlock. I dunno if this is normal, but other rogues in my guild seem to do a lot better than me. I don't know if my gear is too bad, or if I should re-spec, etc(My armory profile: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Gnomeregan&n=Bandefaca). I want to keep talents as they are, mining brings in lots of gold, and I'm trying to level up jewelcrafting a bit. I'm open to any advice(helpful and specific, please), and please try to keep from flaming me...
Thanks,
~Meeki
#2 Mar 23 2008 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent
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1,463 posts
Ok, what I have seen,

Your gear is barely kara starter level...

You use 2 slow weapons with a combat/daggers build, you want slow MH fast OH(for combat potency procs).

You use imp ss(although not a big deal since the first 5 talents in combat are practically useless in all PvE), imp. kick and blade twisting, but no aggression. Drop one of the former and take the later.

I can't make up my mind about your assassination section.

So overall, your gear is very weak, and your spec needs some tweaks.

Since you have all the time until summer to learn stuff I would recomment going through this theory craft link to better understand rogue game mechanics.
#3 Mar 23 2008 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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811 posts
^ Agreed. Also - you have no enchants on anything...

+12 Agi to cloak
Assault on Bracers
+12 stam to boots
Nethercobra Leg armor
+6 all stats to chest
AP or Agility to gloves
Should have +15 agi at bare minimum to weapons, it's freakin cheap.
Head enchant from cenarion rep (i think)

You have some decent Kara and BM gear, but up the rest. Even farming S1 items would help.
#4 Mar 23 2008 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent
Thanks for the help! I made up a new spec idea, is this one good?
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?0052031040000000000003203050020550100123210510500000000000000000000







#5 Mar 23 2008 at 2:04 PM Rating: Good
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1,463 posts
Better, but I would move the point in blade twisting into nerves of steel, then again, resisting a fear can be a bad thing sometimes...
#6 Mar 23 2008 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
True, I plan to do more PvE than PvP, so I guess that nerves of steel would be better off with that one point. I also was wondering if there are some easy-to-get OH daggers. I'm looking at the Feltooth Eviscerator and the Retainer's Blade. As for the enchants, I'll try and get some of those, in addition to farming epic flyer. As for that head enchant, I looked it up. It's NICE!
#7 Mar 23 2008 at 4:52 PM Rating: Default
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56 posts
TBH all bets are off - the above is basically good advice but by the time you are back WotLK will be out and things will have moved on ...... that is not including the changes in 2.4 et al.

I'd keep in touch with developments by reading the forums and paying attention to places such as Elitist Jerks.






#8 Mar 24 2008 at 4:47 AM Rating: Decent
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51 posts
You'll start to see a big difference once you change your weapons out for some better ones. When I first got the Vindicator's Brand for my sword rogue I couldn't believe the difference in damage I did. I would definitely drop Blade twisting and put those points into aggression. The only other thing that's killing your damage is your hit rating. Once you can raise that you'll start be able to compete with other rogues on DPS.

For now don't get discouraged by people beating you when they're wearing gear that outclasses yours as it's unreasonable to think you'll be able to compete with their DPS. Just hang in there for now, Kara is just the first step.
#9 Mar 24 2008 at 5:14 AM Rating: Good
FelRogue wrote:
The only other thing that's killing your damage is your hit rating. Once you can raise that you'll start be able to compete with other rogues on DPS.


Agreed, your hit is terribly low. You're AP could be higher as well. You can't really use your Crit Chance well if you're not hitting your target more. Hit is one of the more important things you need. The more you're able to land a hit on a target, the more damage you can do.

Try getting more +hit gems in your gear as well. Looks like you're mainly focusing on agility (which can be good) but hit is, as I said, important. Plus your boots need to be gemmed.

You'll get there though... heck, I'm still working on my rogue to be better geared and stuff. It's taking time, but I'm getting there.

Good luck!
#10 Mar 24 2008 at 6:23 AM Rating: Decent
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51 posts
Well, his account is frozen and he's got rez sickness so we're not going to be able to get a very good read of his AP, but as xNocturnalSunx said, stack agility in addition to hit. The rule of thumb is basically this, if you're using daggers stack agi and hit (+crit is good too, but not at the expense of the other two) and if you use swords stack AP and hit. Don't worry about attack power so much if you're using a dagger. If you don't know why read the next paragraph, if you already know why then skip it.

Because swords are a slow weapon, you get a bonus on your white damage based on your weapon speed (and some other numbers Blizz pulled out of the air for special attacks that's based on the TYPE of weapon). On average swords have a 2.6 speed so this comes out to about 260 damage if you have 1400 AP. Slow daggers have a 1.8-2.0 speed and this comes out to 180-200 damage for the same amount of AP. Daggers do most of their damage by having a faster swing time and moves like backstab do a bonus % of your weapons base attack in addition to there bonus weapon damage to offset the damage loss.

It's not that attack power isn't important; it's just not as crucial when using a dagger as oppposed to a sword or fist or mace. If you stack agi then the attack power you need will take care of itself, and if you stack hit then you'll improve your damage immensely. But if you don't hit, you can't crit.

Please don't take this the wrong way. I only ask because I don't know what you're doing/not doing in raids. Are you using a 3/5/5 rotation for your SnD and ruptures on boss fights? That's the optimum cycle for damage output especially for daggers.
#11 Mar 24 2008 at 6:51 AM Rating: Good
FelRogue wrote:
Well, his account is frozen and he's got rez sickness so we're not going to be able to get a very good read of his AP...


Didn't know that rez sickness affects what's shown as you're AP... Always thought it was just your base stats (str, stam, int, agi, spi, armor, etc.)
#12 Mar 24 2008 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
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811 posts
Well if Agi and Str are down...that affects your AP right?
#13 Mar 24 2008 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
ThomasMagnum wrote:
Well if Agi and Str are down...that affects your AP right?


Good point lol =P.
#14 Jun 16 2008 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent
Ok, then, So, I've gotten enchants and everything, and here is my new profile: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Gnomeregan&n=Bandefaca . Now, I'm On-par for 2nd (On our badge run in Kara yesterday)with one rogue on the damage meters that is equally geared with me, and behind another /w 4/5 T4. Please also take note that my helm has been replaced with Cowl of Defiance(also has the cenarion enchant), and my necklace with the Saberclaw Talisman. I also plan to get a Mongoose on my OH, after I replace it with something worth spending 600 gold on.

I was also wondering about my attack routine; I normally open with Garrote, then shiv until deadly poison is at 5 stacks(normally 3 or 4 shivs), then start SnD once I have 5 combo points. After that, I use SS mixed w/ a Shiv whenever the deadly poison is about to tick out until a 5-point Rupture, and switch between 5-combo-point SnD and Rupture for the rest of the time. Is that good, or should it be changed? Comments? Thoughts?

Edited, Jun 16th 2008 2:02pm by Meeki
#15 Jun 17 2008 at 1:34 AM Rating: Default
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142 posts
well as your a dagger rogue, you really should be using Backstab instead of SS.
you right to start with garrote but I'd SnD straight away after. Try and Get a 4SnD/5rupture cycle going after that, but it won't be easy with the energy used by Backstab
#16 Jun 17 2008 at 2:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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13,048 posts
pythonesc wrote:
well as your a dagger rogue, you really should be using Backstab instead of SS.
you right to start with garrote but I'd SnD straight away after. Try and Get a 4SnD/5rupture cycle going after that, but it won't be easy with the energy used by Backstab

Combat daggers uses 1s/3s/5r rotations.

For ****'s sake people, don't post if you're that clueless.
#17 Jun 17 2008 at 5:32 AM Rating: Good
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802 posts
in his defense, he's a lot smarter and responsive than the other newbies that come on here. No need to bash the possible potentials ;)

I'm trademarking the term TPP for newbs that show promise on this forum :)

In other news :
As a rogue never gem for stam, ever (unless you're PVP'ing even then its debatable). Try to find an agi + stam or something else purple to fit that socket. Socket priority is hit then agi then ATK. You don't ever socket for anything else.

Your :
head -> prefferable get the T4 helmet asap because of the meta gem. Keep in mind that you may need to gem blue purple stuff to activate some metagems.
Neck -> i prefer Worgen Claw Necklace
because of the hit, keep the saberclaw talisman for use after you hit the hit-rating limit of 285 (with 5/5 precision).
shoulder -> Good gems selection, upgrade them if you can. Get exalted with either scryers or aldor for the better shoulder enchant.
Chest -> enchant +6 stats and gem either hit or agi in the sockets.
Bracers -> done.
Gloves -> try to get something other than stam in your blue socket.
Belt -> same
Pants -> upgrade asap and get the LW patch.
Try to upgrade your blue ring and blue trinket asap.

Double Mongoose is the needed weap enchant for rogues, do this when you think you hit your maximum range of possible weapons for a longer period (so you don't spend on Mongoose every time you get a new weap). For instance for me that's the badge fists as it's not likely for me to get BT gear atm.

As for speccing: i got killed when i posted as a newbie here for having blade twisting. It's bad, remove it. Also don't spec both backstab and sinister strike, it's one or the other as far as i know (never played combat daggers, just muti).

Don't ever use shiv as your main attack unless its about control (by using crippling), this is usually only in pvp.

Think thats about it. I just want to add the disclaimer that i kind of understand the theory behind rogue stuff but now also have to do this on my own rogue :P So no pointing back at me, I'm working on it ;)
#18 Jun 17 2008 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
Cool, thanks for the info. As for the blue gems, I had them socketted because our last kara run, I would've gotten the T4 helm, and therefore the meta socket that needs 2 of every type of gem, but a damned ret pally(officer) took it for his tanking set, that he never uses (Yes, I'm finding a new guild, :P) But besides ranting, thanks for the advice. I also don't want to use the nethercobra attatchment quite yet, since those are crappy pants (I'm reeeeeaaaaly stingy, :P) But other than that, I'm glad that people are actually responding, :).
~Meeki

Edited, Jun 17th 2008 1:44pm by Meeki
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