I burned out on my paladin and almost dropped WoW because of it, I really want to be useful and have a fun job (I leveled 1-60 holy, Yeah... I am done healing)
I am pretty good with grouping in general, I used to heal tanks, now I want to be the tank.
Is their a good list of items I should get? I don't mind getting them in order like - "Get X chest peice, until you can do X instance for this Chest Peice".
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Moonrunner&n=Distantpast
I wished it showed my bags, I have the sheild from Bot as well incase of extra defence.
(Please don't make changes to my build unless you feel it is VERY IMPORTANT, I like what I have now)
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What kind of gear should I haveFollow
talent wise i think everything is pretty cool although in my recent experience those points in divine intellect or whatever in the holy tree will not help. just odens't make a significant difference. however the one change that I believe is a MUST in your talent spec (even tho i dont agree with some other choices u made in the talent tree, i dotn think they are a problem really) is that you have no points in deflection. 5/5 is a must IMO.
I am really new to tanking and the like but lets see... I'll choose a piece that I think is poor and I'll say what I would attempt to get:
The back piece and neck u have are poor. I would instead, attempt SV constantly until revered till i get the neck from CE rep as well as the devilshark cape off the last boss (in fact thats what i trying to do now personally on my pally).
The chest is poor. If u are aldor i'd go for the revered chest OR run Mech and kill second boss to try and get jade-skull breastplate or something like that. Also, belt sucks, easiest belt I see getting is what people here have recommended and that is the Sha'atari belt from the HOW TO BREAK INTO ARcatraz quest chain.
The rings and trinkets do nothign really for u.
Rings to get would be the one from ARcatraz, the quest reward from the Black Morass, or I guess even the crafted delicate eternium band or whatever.
I'd recommend trying to run a lot of BM just to put rep to revered so that you can buy a)head enchant b)timewarden's leggings (although those legs are cool) c) the continuum blade (for spell damage)
Right now your spell damage is at like 120 or something like that, to me, that's pretty low, All my spell damage comes from the continuum blade and a +40 spell damage enchant and I still consider that really low. Its going to be like your main way to maintain threat through consecrate and the like so its important to use some gear to stabilize that. Also the sword adds a load of stam.
Trinket wise, there is a good one from this group quest in netherstorm, gives u dabyrie's enigma. I think that trinket is fairly easy to get and quite useful.
Other more difficult trinkets to look into would be Figurine of the colossus from Shattered Halls or Adamantite Figurine from Shadow LAbs.
You are falling way short on defense and I dont really know why. Personally, if u replace those pieces that are clearly not tanking pieces, you will make up that defense shortfall quickly and can start resocketing for better gems. (i.e. taking out the +defense for more +stam or even +avoidance(parry/dodge) if need be.)
U pretty much on par. I was similar in gear choices like last week and EASILY farmed most of the pieces with limited effort. 4-5 runs through BM u revered already :). Quests are simple enough and the like. (initially when i looked at your character i thought it said he had 13k life, u only have 8k and that's an intial problem.) I think if u jsut work to getting a few pieces you'll be in good shape. Once you are set with defense, I'd say start focusing on stam (unless you plan on tanking raids in which you should look to increasing avoidance.)
Here is a point that I wish I had known much earlier and for some reason overlooked. Avoidance is so that mobs 3 levels higher than you dont crushing blow you if you ahve your avoidance high enough. Apparently, and I thought this wasn't true, only raid bosses are level 73. (kept thinking some heroic bosses were 73 as well..) Thus, if you aren't looking to be main tank anytime soon, hit the uncrittable status, get a decent amount of avoidance and jsut look to pushing stam.
However, dont step into heroics until u have more than meh, I'd say 12k life, 490 defense, decent avoidance and +170 spell damage.
Hope that is helpful at all.
I am really new to tanking and the like but lets see... I'll choose a piece that I think is poor and I'll say what I would attempt to get:
The back piece and neck u have are poor. I would instead, attempt SV constantly until revered till i get the neck from CE rep as well as the devilshark cape off the last boss (in fact thats what i trying to do now personally on my pally).
The chest is poor. If u are aldor i'd go for the revered chest OR run Mech and kill second boss to try and get jade-skull breastplate or something like that. Also, belt sucks, easiest belt I see getting is what people here have recommended and that is the Sha'atari belt from the HOW TO BREAK INTO ARcatraz quest chain.
The rings and trinkets do nothign really for u.
Rings to get would be the one from ARcatraz, the quest reward from the Black Morass, or I guess even the crafted delicate eternium band or whatever.
I'd recommend trying to run a lot of BM just to put rep to revered so that you can buy a)head enchant b)timewarden's leggings (although those legs are cool) c) the continuum blade (for spell damage)
Right now your spell damage is at like 120 or something like that, to me, that's pretty low, All my spell damage comes from the continuum blade and a +40 spell damage enchant and I still consider that really low. Its going to be like your main way to maintain threat through consecrate and the like so its important to use some gear to stabilize that. Also the sword adds a load of stam.
Trinket wise, there is a good one from this group quest in netherstorm, gives u dabyrie's enigma. I think that trinket is fairly easy to get and quite useful.
Other more difficult trinkets to look into would be Figurine of the colossus from Shattered Halls or Adamantite Figurine from Shadow LAbs.
You are falling way short on defense and I dont really know why. Personally, if u replace those pieces that are clearly not tanking pieces, you will make up that defense shortfall quickly and can start resocketing for better gems. (i.e. taking out the +defense for more +stam or even +avoidance(parry/dodge) if need be.)
U pretty much on par. I was similar in gear choices like last week and EASILY farmed most of the pieces with limited effort. 4-5 runs through BM u revered already :). Quests are simple enough and the like. (initially when i looked at your character i thought it said he had 13k life, u only have 8k and that's an intial problem.) I think if u jsut work to getting a few pieces you'll be in good shape. Once you are set with defense, I'd say start focusing on stam (unless you plan on tanking raids in which you should look to increasing avoidance.)
Here is a point that I wish I had known much earlier and for some reason overlooked. Avoidance is so that mobs 3 levels higher than you dont crushing blow you if you ahve your avoidance high enough. Apparently, and I thought this wasn't true, only raid bosses are level 73. (kept thinking some heroic bosses were 73 as well..) Thus, if you aren't looking to be main tank anytime soon, hit the uncrittable status, get a decent amount of avoidance and jsut look to pushing stam.
However, dont step into heroics until u have more than meh, I'd say 12k life, 490 defense, decent avoidance and +170 spell damage.
Hope that is helpful at all.
Well couple things.
1) Clean up your build. SoComm, Imp Hammer of Justice, 3 points languishing in the Holy tree, no 1 h spec, no expertise. Very sloppy tanking build.
2) Gems. Kind of all over the place. Look at some other pallies see where they went.
3) 490 defense, should be your first goal as a tank. Don't gem to reach the cap though. You should be able to hit it with gear. Goto Wowwiki.com, look at all 5 man regulars and make a list of gear upgrades and start running for them. Also you want to save money and but the Crystalforge sword first second you see it on AH. BOE item but the single best tanking weapon for a pally until you get epics such as Amani punisher or PvP spelldamage mace.
4) Try and complete the Kara attunment while you are doing dungeon crawls.
5) Break up the pugs and gear runs and go do an BG, go do a quest. You will want your epic flier and 5200g needs to be earned. S1 mace is only 20k something honor, not that bad really. It is also a very good tanking weapon for you.
1) Clean up your build. SoComm, Imp Hammer of Justice, 3 points languishing in the Holy tree, no 1 h spec, no expertise. Very sloppy tanking build.
2) Gems. Kind of all over the place. Look at some other pallies see where they went.
3) 490 defense, should be your first goal as a tank. Don't gem to reach the cap though. You should be able to hit it with gear. Goto Wowwiki.com, look at all 5 man regulars and make a list of gear upgrades and start running for them. Also you want to save money and but the Crystalforge sword first second you see it on AH. BOE item but the single best tanking weapon for a pally until you get epics such as Amani punisher or PvP spelldamage mace.
4) Try and complete the Kara attunment while you are doing dungeon crawls.
5) Break up the pugs and gear runs and go do an BG, go do a quest. You will want your epic flier and 5200g needs to be earned. S1 mace is only 20k something honor, not that bad really. It is also a very good tanking weapon for you.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Try these forums:
1) Good start, I like the easy to follow format:
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=4844
2) progression & defining 5-man from raid goals. Yes, you will want to gear differently for each case. I know, I know... it's tough swapping out epics you worked hard for to equip the pieces you replaced with them >< but sometimes if you feel the need to down-grade crawls you'll probably need to down-grade gear.
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=163
BUILD:
depends how far you plan on taking your tanking too. Will you be ok tanking the easy 5-mans over & over? What I mean is... that build will "work" with good gear, but probably not for any Lv70 5-mans you either need a flying mount or a key to get into. That's a conservative guess. If your over leveled & over geared you "should" be ok, but I've never tanked with a build like that. So I can't speak from experience.
If you want to tank the tough 5-mans you'll need at least this cookie cutter template: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0xIx0zGgqtV0x
Now, few notes on that build... the 3 points in Reckoning are optional. I just needed to stick them somewhere to get further down the tree. I highly recommend Blessing of Kings, only reason it's not in that build is because you can get by without it. 99% of the time you'll be using BoSav on everyone and BoSan on yourself. BUT, BoK is extremely handy and I would never pass it up unless I only raided with my pally & only with a group that provided BoKs already.
The 3 points in Reckoning & the 5 left over put wherever. They really don't matter... you'll tank fine with a good strategy and good gear. Although, there are some points that do squat for tanking. But if they assist your day-to-day play then by all means go right ahead.
Kz
Edited, Mar 19th 2008 10:28pm by Killzon
1) Good start, I like the easy to follow format:
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=4844
2) progression & defining 5-man from raid goals. Yes, you will want to gear differently for each case. I know, I know... it's tough swapping out epics you worked hard for to equip the pieces you replaced with them >< but sometimes if you feel the need to down-grade crawls you'll probably need to down-grade gear.
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=163
BUILD:
depends how far you plan on taking your tanking too. Will you be ok tanking the easy 5-mans over & over? What I mean is... that build will "work" with good gear, but probably not for any Lv70 5-mans you either need a flying mount or a key to get into. That's a conservative guess. If your over leveled & over geared you "should" be ok, but I've never tanked with a build like that. So I can't speak from experience.
If you want to tank the tough 5-mans you'll need at least this cookie cutter template: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0xIx0zGgqtV0x
Now, few notes on that build... the 3 points in Reckoning are optional. I just needed to stick them somewhere to get further down the tree. I highly recommend Blessing of Kings, only reason it's not in that build is because you can get by without it. 99% of the time you'll be using BoSav on everyone and BoSan on yourself. BUT, BoK is extremely handy and I would never pass it up unless I only raided with my pally & only with a group that provided BoKs already.
The 3 points in Reckoning & the 5 left over put wherever. They really don't matter... you'll tank fine with a good strategy and good gear. Although, there are some points that do squat for tanking. But if they assist your day-to-day play then by all means go right ahead.
Kz
Edited, Mar 19th 2008 10:28pm by Killzon
Thanks for the Constuctive Criticism, I might alter my Talents, but i won't be revamping them, this gives me a decent tank/solo, other wise I am mroe or less screwed (I end up soloing alot).
Thanks all, I am going to start working on the easier stuff, and gradually move up.
Thanks all, I am going to start working on the easier stuff, and gradually move up.
First SoComm.
Seal of Command is designed to work with nice big slow 2h weapons.
If you are a prot pally trying to solo with a nice big slow 2h weapon then you are playing your class wrong. Sword board, HS, Sanc, grab 10 mobs and let them beat themselves to death on you.
As prot you have neither that crit, the ap or talents in ret to make 2hers work, let alone SoComm. The points in Divine Intellect are equally wasted. Take out the improved stun (which is not worth having for tanking or soloing) and you have 1h weapon specialization which increases both melee and magic damage by 5% which increases solo viability and more importantly your ability to generate threat since 5% to magic damage when you magic is what generates threat is a huge fricking thing to have.
I could break it down further but that is the first thing I would fix.
Seal of Command is designed to work with nice big slow 2h weapons.
If you are a prot pally trying to solo with a nice big slow 2h weapon then you are playing your class wrong. Sword board, HS, Sanc, grab 10 mobs and let them beat themselves to death on you.
As prot you have neither that crit, the ap or talents in ret to make 2hers work, let alone SoComm. The points in Divine Intellect are equally wasted. Take out the improved stun (which is not worth having for tanking or soloing) and you have 1h weapon specialization which increases both melee and magic damage by 5% which increases solo viability and more importantly your ability to generate threat since 5% to magic damage when you magic is what generates threat is a huge fricking thing to have.
I could break it down further but that is the first thing I would fix.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Lord Justdistaint wrote:
Thanks for the Constuctive Criticism, I might alter my Talents, but i won't be revamping them, this gives me a decent tank/solo, other wise I am mroe or less screwed (I end up soloing alot).
Feel free to give a try at any build. Just be ready to explain yourself when you group. As in "trying a unique build for this guys... doing a study, please be patient..." so you don't give other better spec'd paladins a bad rap. Especially the easier 5-mans because you will have more players unfamiliar to the paladin tank specs than endgame. But those player will understand and more than likely be willing to let you go nuts. Heck... I would if it's not a tough run, I'd be interested to try unique specs myself. That's the time to do it =)
If you get any solid data on something not touched in these threads post on it!
But also understand the prot spec/tree has been bashed to death many-a-times over again.
Kz
Edited, Mar 20th 2008 10:47am by Killzon
bodhisattva wrote:
First SoComm.
Seal of Command is designed to work with nice big slow 2h weapons.
If you are a prot pally trying to solo with a nice big slow 2h weapon then you are playing your class wrong. Sword board, HS, Sanc, grab 10 mobs and let them beat themselves to death on you.
As prot you have neither that crit, the ap or talents in ret to make 2hers work, let alone SoComm. The points in Divine Intellect are equally wasted. Take out the improved stun (which is not worth having for tanking or soloing) and you have 1h weapon specialization which increases both melee and magic damage by 5% which increases solo viability and more importantly your ability to generate threat since 5% to magic damage when you magic is what generates threat is a huge fricking thing to have.
I could break it down further but that is the first thing I would fix.
Seal of Command is designed to work with nice big slow 2h weapons.
If you are a prot pally trying to solo with a nice big slow 2h weapon then you are playing your class wrong. Sword board, HS, Sanc, grab 10 mobs and let them beat themselves to death on you.
As prot you have neither that crit, the ap or talents in ret to make 2hers work, let alone SoComm. The points in Divine Intellect are equally wasted. Take out the improved stun (which is not worth having for tanking or soloing) and you have 1h weapon specialization which increases both melee and magic damage by 5% which increases solo viability and more importantly your ability to generate threat since 5% to magic damage when you magic is what generates threat is a huge fricking thing to have.
I could break it down further but that is the first thing I would fix.
Well break it down further, one respec costs less than 3.
And I can not grab 10guys and make it work, I know its exaggeration, I need fast but weak hitters (etherium guys for example).
If I had better gear (point of the post) I would switch.
Oh, I group/raid mostly with guildies. So, it's pretty lax.
My respec cost is sitting at 45g, and I still respec every so often. It doesn't take long to grind the gold for a respec if you want to or feel you need to.
Now your talent build. You want to tank, but you are missing out on 4 key talents, and investing in a lot of unnecessary ones.
Key talents you NEED are
1) One Handed Weapon Specialization
-5% more damage to EVERYthing. Some people think it just refers to weapon damage, but it increases your HS damage, your Ret Aura damage, your BoSanc damage your shield spike damge, etc.. etc.. which is more threat, which helps save your squishies and helps kill mobs/boses faster.
2) Combat Expertise
-The expertise isn't as necessary for you right now, though it will help in the future. The 10% extra stamina can and will help you. For you right now
that's another 500 hp, in the future it could be another 1000 as you get better gear. It's like having BoK up all the time... and then you can put up BoK again!
3) Deflection
-5% extra chance to parry. As you start to get better gear and you are trying to hit that uncrushable number, you are going to want to get every percentage point you can find. Parry is one of the best means of avoidance, because you take no damage when you parry. Something that as a tank you should be striving for.
4) Spell Warding
-4% less spell damage. Spells tend to hurt... a lot, and as a Paladin you have no way to mitigate that spell damage. Sure you can switch your auras around, but that's no guarantee, and it's definitely annoying. That 4% helps and it's only 2 talent points, so no reason not to grab it.
Talents you have but are unnecessary for tanking:
1) Divine Intellect
-As a tank, you will not be stacking intellect. As you replace your gear, you are going to see your +int go further and further down, and increasing your pitiful intellect by another 6% is not going to be doing you any favors. As a tank you get your mana by receiving heals, using blessing of wisdom, and/or seal or judgement of wisdom if you need it. In that order, and you should be fine unless you incredibly outgear an instance, which you won't have to worry about any time soon.
2) Seal of Command
-Bodh already covered this but let me reiterate. You need retribution stats like AP, Crit, Str, etc.. to make SoC work well. You don't have those, and Seal of Rightousness will outperform Seal of Command with your current setup.
3) Improved Hammer of Justice
-This one is a toughy. It looks nice, more stuns. And you use your stuns a good amount, so why isn't this good? I had a hard time with this as well, but as you start doing the harder instances and eventually start raiding, you will see that more and more mobs are immune to stunning. As I tanked more instances, I noticed that I disliked stunning mobs more and more, as you are not generating threat when they are stunned, because they are not hitting you. Save your stun for when a DPS grabs aggro and they are going to die and you <hopefully> shouldn't need to stun more than once a minute.
4) Precision
-You don't need it yet. You will want it in the future when you are raiding, but right now, at the content you are doing, Precision is not helping as much the other talents could.
5) Guardian's Favor
-Same thing... it's nice in Kara for fighting Moroes, and you might want to pick it up later, but if you are doing your job well, you shouldn't need to BoP someone every 3 minutes, 5 minutes is a good enough cooldown.
All that being said, here is a build that I recommend from experience and from seeing countless other Paladin tanks on these forums. Here.
Edited, Mar 20th 2008 2:28pm by CapJack
Now your talent build. You want to tank, but you are missing out on 4 key talents, and investing in a lot of unnecessary ones.
Key talents you NEED are
1) One Handed Weapon Specialization
-5% more damage to EVERYthing. Some people think it just refers to weapon damage, but it increases your HS damage, your Ret Aura damage, your BoSanc damage your shield spike damge, etc.. etc.. which is more threat, which helps save your squishies and helps kill mobs/boses faster.
2) Combat Expertise
-The expertise isn't as necessary for you right now, though it will help in the future. The 10% extra stamina can and will help you. For you right now
that's another 500 hp, in the future it could be another 1000 as you get better gear. It's like having BoK up all the time... and then you can put up BoK again!
3) Deflection
-5% extra chance to parry. As you start to get better gear and you are trying to hit that uncrushable number, you are going to want to get every percentage point you can find. Parry is one of the best means of avoidance, because you take no damage when you parry. Something that as a tank you should be striving for.
4) Spell Warding
-4% less spell damage. Spells tend to hurt... a lot, and as a Paladin you have no way to mitigate that spell damage. Sure you can switch your auras around, but that's no guarantee, and it's definitely annoying. That 4% helps and it's only 2 talent points, so no reason not to grab it.
Talents you have but are unnecessary for tanking:
1) Divine Intellect
-As a tank, you will not be stacking intellect. As you replace your gear, you are going to see your +int go further and further down, and increasing your pitiful intellect by another 6% is not going to be doing you any favors. As a tank you get your mana by receiving heals, using blessing of wisdom, and/or seal or judgement of wisdom if you need it. In that order, and you should be fine unless you incredibly outgear an instance, which you won't have to worry about any time soon.
2) Seal of Command
-Bodh already covered this but let me reiterate. You need retribution stats like AP, Crit, Str, etc.. to make SoC work well. You don't have those, and Seal of Rightousness will outperform Seal of Command with your current setup.
3) Improved Hammer of Justice
-This one is a toughy. It looks nice, more stuns. And you use your stuns a good amount, so why isn't this good? I had a hard time with this as well, but as you start doing the harder instances and eventually start raiding, you will see that more and more mobs are immune to stunning. As I tanked more instances, I noticed that I disliked stunning mobs more and more, as you are not generating threat when they are stunned, because they are not hitting you. Save your stun for when a DPS grabs aggro and they are going to die and you <hopefully> shouldn't need to stun more than once a minute.
4) Precision
-You don't need it yet. You will want it in the future when you are raiding, but right now, at the content you are doing, Precision is not helping as much the other talents could.
5) Guardian's Favor
-Same thing... it's nice in Kara for fighting Moroes, and you might want to pick it up later, but if you are doing your job well, you shouldn't need to BoP someone every 3 minutes, 5 minutes is a good enough cooldown.
All that being said, here is a build that I recommend from experience and from seeing countless other Paladin tanks on these forums. Here.
Edited, Mar 20th 2008 2:28pm by CapJack
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