What would you guys consider the minimum stats to acquire for A RET pally before attempting to join raids for Gruul's lair?
How bout Kara?
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Whats the min RET stats for Gruul's Lair? Kara?
Whats the min RET stats for Gruul's Lair? Kara?Follow
Scholar
38 posts
I haven't ran it yet but I was reading up on it and strategies for the bosses suggested for many classes to use allot of ranged DPS (except for the tank of course). I imagine that makes it even tougher for Ret pallies since we have practically no ranged attacks. Guess I'll need allot of new gear. =\
Kara
Average melee dps min for Kara tends to be in the 1300-1400 attack power range. Some people ask for 1500ap they wouldn't be asking for too much.
6% to hit, absolute bare fricking minimum from what I recall.
Crit you want as high as you can manage, anything below 15% = epic fail.
Basically to start Kara you want every single piece of gear that is a) green b)blue and below lvl 67 gone.
Exceptions can be made if you know people and they let you in and are overgeared but really if you are friendless and trying to break into a kara guild that is what you want.
Gruul
You want Gorehowl. You have 80% or more of your gear to be kara epics or badge loot. You want zero greens and only 1-2 pieces blue and hopefully 1 of those pieces is the Hourglass.
If you have equal blues and equal purples you better hope you find a guild that wants to carry your dead weight.
Average melee dps min for Kara tends to be in the 1300-1400 attack power range. Some people ask for 1500ap they wouldn't be asking for too much.
6% to hit, absolute bare fricking minimum from what I recall.
Crit you want as high as you can manage, anything below 15% = epic fail.
Basically to start Kara you want every single piece of gear that is a) green b)blue and below lvl 67 gone.
Exceptions can be made if you know people and they let you in and are overgeared but really if you are friendless and trying to break into a kara guild that is what you want.
Gruul
You want Gorehowl. You have 80% or more of your gear to be kara epics or badge loot. You want zero greens and only 1-2 pieces blue and hopefully 1 of those pieces is the Hourglass.
If you have equal blues and equal purples you better hope you find a guild that wants to carry your dead weight.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
baseline for a dps role is so much more subjective than is with a healer or tank. healer undergeared = lose, tank undergeared = lose, dps undergeared = we'll get there eventually.
Bodh's advice is pretty solid. i'll sum it up though: if you cant pull 1st or 2nd consistently in a 5man, you are undergeared. if you are taking a coveted melee spot in a raid, you need to up the ante.
also consider: it is just as important to NOT be a liability as it is to be beneficial. adding +3% dmg to the raid is nice, taking 40% of the heals is not nice. know every fight BEFORE you get there(websites, videos) and know what you need to do...the is especially true for a positioning fight like Gruul. dont be the "stupid pally that wiped the raid".
Bodh's advice is pretty solid. i'll sum it up though: if you cant pull 1st or 2nd consistently in a 5man, you are undergeared. if you are taking a coveted melee spot in a raid, you need to up the ante.
also consider: it is just as important to NOT be a liability as it is to be beneficial. adding +3% dmg to the raid is nice, taking 40% of the heals is not nice. know every fight BEFORE you get there(websites, videos) and know what you need to do...the is especially true for a positioning fight like Gruul. dont be the "stupid pally that wiped the raid".
tommyguns wrote:
baseline for a dps role is so much more subjective than is with a healer or tank. healer undergeared = lose, tank undergeared = lose, dps undergeared = we'll get there eventually.
That's not entirely accurate. The worse your DPS players' gear, the more gear the tank and healers need to make it up(at least on Gruul). However, the flipside is that the gear portion is less of a hard minimum for DPS as skill can make up for a bit, but if a tank doesn't have the gear, then all the skill in the world won't save them.
tommy, how in God's name do you top your raid's damage meter? Are they all as clueless as you are? That's the only conclusion I can come to.
That's not entirely accurate. The worse your DPS players' gear, the more gear the tank and healers need to make it up(at least on Gruul). However, the flipside is that the gear portion is less of a hard minimum for DPS as skill can make up for a bit, but if a tank doesn't have the gear, then all the skill in the world won't save them.
Actually, I'd say that's not only not entirely accurate, it's bull!@#$. The less DPS you bring, the longer the tank has to take hits, the more chances people have to die (keeping 10-25 people healed is a difficult and imperfect science), and the harder the healers' mana is taxed (it's not infinate and they will run out eventually). Plus, even if they are flawless, a lack of DPS can still wipe you on burn-down fights like Gruul and with enrage timers. It's that half-assed attitude towards DPS that has kept several of the guilds I've been in (that I've subsequently left) from progressing. I guess that mindset would make it easier for a Ret Pally to justify himself into a raid though...
That's... a pretty retarded measuring stick.
Look, let me break it down for you: Destruction Warlocks (most Warlocks, actually, but Destruction especially) and Rogues are pretty much going to own the top DPS spots in any raid if they are geared and played right. Rogues sport the single highest melee DPS period, and Warlocks not only do ridiculous damage, they get to go balls-to-the-wall with threat as their only limiter due to Life Tap. A good Hunter is pretty mean too. And all of these classes have threat dumps whereas Pallies do not.
That's not anti-Ret propaganda; that's just the way it is. What you should be looking at is how much of the total damage you are doing compared to the other classes. It's fine not to slot in at #1 or #2 as long as your percentage isn't too far behind the others. Not topping the meter is not a sure sign of failure. Realistically, you should expect to place somewhere in the middle or bottom half of the pack, but again, as long as your DPS isn't that far behind everyone else, you can still be a raging success.
While true, the other classes that (should) beat you out in DPS can do that too, so it's still not justification for bringing your Ret-tarded *** along. If you want to prove to your guild/raid/whoever that you are worth bringing along for your DPS, then you don't need to be cutting any corners, especially as a Retribution Paladin when 99% of the in-game population is still biased against you. Be skilled, yes; I'm obviously not saying you should be an idiot, but work for the gear.
Edited, Mar 20th 2008 8:03am by Gaudion
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
tommyguns wrote:
baseline for a dps role is so much more subjective than is with a healer or tank. healer undergeared = lose, tank undergeared = lose, dps undergeared = we'll get there eventually.
That's not entirely accurate. The worse your DPS players' gear, the more gear the tank and healers need to make it up(at least on Gruul). However, the flipside is that the gear portion is less of a hard minimum for DPS as skill can make up for a bit, but if a tank doesn't have the gear, then all the skill in the world won't save them.
Actually, I'd say that's not only not entirely accurate, it's bull!@#$. The less DPS you bring, the longer the tank has to take hits, the more chances people have to die (keeping 10-25 people healed is a difficult and imperfect science), and the harder the healers' mana is taxed (it's not infinate and they will run out eventually). Plus, even if they are flawless, a lack of DPS can still wipe you on burn-down fights like Gruul and with enrage timers. It's that half-assed attitude towards DPS that has kept several of the guilds I've been in (that I've subsequently left) from progressing. I guess that mindset would make it easier for a Ret Pally to justify himself into a raid though...
Quote:
Bodh's advice is pretty solid. i'll sum it up though: if you cant pull 1st or 2nd consistently in a 5man, you are undergeared. if you are taking a coveted melee spot in a raid, you need to up the ante.
That's... a pretty retarded measuring stick.
Look, let me break it down for you: Destruction Warlocks (most Warlocks, actually, but Destruction especially) and Rogues are pretty much going to own the top DPS spots in any raid if they are geared and played right. Rogues sport the single highest melee DPS period, and Warlocks not only do ridiculous damage, they get to go balls-to-the-wall with threat as their only limiter due to Life Tap. A good Hunter is pretty mean too. And all of these classes have threat dumps whereas Pallies do not.
That's not anti-Ret propaganda; that's just the way it is. What you should be looking at is how much of the total damage you are doing compared to the other classes. It's fine not to slot in at #1 or #2 as long as your percentage isn't too far behind the others. Not topping the meter is not a sure sign of failure. Realistically, you should expect to place somewhere in the middle or bottom half of the pack, but again, as long as your DPS isn't that far behind everyone else, you can still be a raging success.
Quote:
also consider: it is just as important to NOT be a liability as it is to be beneficial. adding +3% dmg to the raid is nice, taking 40% of the heals is not nice. know every fight BEFORE you get there(websites, videos) and know what you need to do...the is especially true for a positioning fight like Gruul. dont be the "stupid pally that wiped the raid".
While true, the other classes that (should) beat you out in DPS can do that too, so it's still not justification for bringing your Ret-tarded *** along. If you want to prove to your guild/raid/whoever that you are worth bringing along for your DPS, then you don't need to be cutting any corners, especially as a Retribution Paladin when 99% of the in-game population is still biased against you. Be skilled, yes; I'm obviously not saying you should be an idiot, but work for the gear.
Edited, Mar 20th 2008 8:03am by Gaudion
Scholar
38 posts
Hmmm...
Currently I've got like 5 purples 4 blues and 5 greens (not including trinkets). So I'm probably half way there. In doing weaker instances (ex: non-heroic mana tombs, steamvault) I'm almost always in the #2 spot for damage in a 5 man. and usually not far behind the rouge or warlock whos #1.
I'll look thru the drop lists and focus on replacing my greens with purples first.
Just trying to stay on the path to success. Thanks guys!
Currently I've got like 5 purples 4 blues and 5 greens (not including trinkets). So I'm probably half way there. In doing weaker instances (ex: non-heroic mana tombs, steamvault) I'm almost always in the #2 spot for damage in a 5 man. and usually not far behind the rouge or warlock whos #1.
I'll look thru the drop lists and focus on replacing my greens with purples first.
Just trying to stay on the path to success. Thanks guys!
from Kara to Gruuls, tanks and healers are hardly put to peak performance. 9 times out of 10 a raid will fail due to bad positioning, timing, or coordination. usually its NOT due to mana control or lack of dps. i've been to plenty of fights where only the tank and healer are left and still down the boss. or fights where half the dps die in the first few minutes(gruul/shade) and the raid is still successful.
i will agree it is necessary to have a dps crew with max potential, especially in such fights as Prince phase 2. otherwise, for the said instances, knowhow and coordination will win fights just as equally as raw dmg output.
also consider: it is just as important to NOT be a liability as it is to be beneficial. adding +3% dmg to the raid is nice, taking 40% of the heals is not nice. know every fight BEFORE you get there(websites, videos) and know what you need to do...the is especially true for a positioning fight like Gruul. dont be the "stupid pally that wiped the raid".
While true, the other classes that (should) beat you out in DPS can do that too, so it's still not justification for bringing your Ret-tarded *** along.
what i said is actually a reason NOT to take a Ret pally. a Ret pally will usually be #3 or #4 on the 'dmg taken'/'heal taken' list by nature. a fight like Prince is horrible for a Ret pally: potential 1-shot, half dps, out of range aura, no judgement refresh. however, a fight like Shade or Curator is a pally playground, where instant attacks are king. as a Ret pally you must weigh liability vs benefit very carefully.
i will agree it is necessary to have a dps crew with max potential, especially in such fights as Prince phase 2. otherwise, for the said instances, knowhow and coordination will win fights just as equally as raw dmg output.
Quote:
Quote:
also consider: it is just as important to NOT be a liability as it is to be beneficial. adding +3% dmg to the raid is nice, taking 40% of the heals is not nice. know every fight BEFORE you get there(websites, videos) and know what you need to do...the is especially true for a positioning fight like Gruul. dont be the "stupid pally that wiped the raid".
While true, the other classes that (should) beat you out in DPS can do that too, so it's still not justification for bringing your Ret-tarded *** along.
what i said is actually a reason NOT to take a Ret pally. a Ret pally will usually be #3 or #4 on the 'dmg taken'/'heal taken' list by nature. a fight like Prince is horrible for a Ret pally: potential 1-shot, half dps, out of range aura, no judgement refresh. however, a fight like Shade or Curator is a pally playground, where instant attacks are king. as a Ret pally you must weigh liability vs benefit very carefully.
I've played as a holy pally going through kara for the first time, played it as a Prot warrior in blues, played it as a dps as well.
The thing about WoW:Burning Crusade vs Vanilla WoW is that all three aspects of the Holy Trinity (Tanks, Heals and DPS) have to be solid. There is only so much leeway. A great tank in great gear can only carry poor healers for so long, healers in T6 gear can't keep dps alive if he isn't smart enough to avoid the splash damage, and DPS needs to DPS or no matter how good there tank/healers are the content is just designed to kill you if you don't kill it fast enough, doubly true when you start hitting bosses with Enrage timers.
Kara is a ramp up. Encounters that are dynamic but only testing 1-2 aspects of the raid at a time, the basic building blocks of what you will see later and it gives the gear you need to move on.
Once you are kara geared you hit Gruul who in effect is a gear check. Is the raid as a whole, tanks, healers and dps. Dps is the focus though since the guy has a soft enrage timer that even tanks/healers can't deal with no matter how much gear they acquire.
The thing about WoW:Burning Crusade vs Vanilla WoW is that all three aspects of the Holy Trinity (Tanks, Heals and DPS) have to be solid. There is only so much leeway. A great tank in great gear can only carry poor healers for so long, healers in T6 gear can't keep dps alive if he isn't smart enough to avoid the splash damage, and DPS needs to DPS or no matter how good there tank/healers are the content is just designed to kill you if you don't kill it fast enough, doubly true when you start hitting bosses with Enrage timers.
Kara is a ramp up. Encounters that are dynamic but only testing 1-2 aspects of the raid at a time, the basic building blocks of what you will see later and it gives the gear you need to move on.
Once you are kara geared you hit Gruul who in effect is a gear check. Is the raid as a whole, tanks, healers and dps. Dps is the focus though since the guy has a soft enrage timer that even tanks/healers can't deal with no matter how much gear they acquire.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
in my ret guide i mention minimum stats for kara. they are as follows:
Starting Kara and Heroics, you should be looking at (unbuffed):
1400 AP
25% crit
9% +hit (95 hit rating with precision; 143 without precision; 80 with precision and draenei racial)
8000 HP
4500 Mana
if you only just barely have these stats a moderately decent raid will be able to drag you through. i highly recommend having closer to 1500AP or even better. it's not hard. with only the epic pants from the last boss in heroic mech and quest/regulars/AH blues i was just over 1600 AP w/ decent gems/enchants. put the effort in to get at least that and you will be able to be a major asset to your raid.
from what i've heard, for gruuls i'd say you'd want at least 1700AP - 1800AP min and i'd have to agree w/ bodh that i really recommend gorehowl or possibly an S1-S3 sword/mace and closer to 28%-30% crit.
also for kara (and assumably gruuls) a large part of being ready is knowing how to play your toon. i really recommend carying off tanking and off healing gear sets for extra flexibility.
Starting Kara and Heroics, you should be looking at (unbuffed):
1400 AP
25% crit
9% +hit (95 hit rating with precision; 143 without precision; 80 with precision and draenei racial)
8000 HP
4500 Mana
if you only just barely have these stats a moderately decent raid will be able to drag you through. i highly recommend having closer to 1500AP or even better. it's not hard. with only the epic pants from the last boss in heroic mech and quest/regulars/AH blues i was just over 1600 AP w/ decent gems/enchants. put the effort in to get at least that and you will be able to be a major asset to your raid.
from what i've heard, for gruuls i'd say you'd want at least 1700AP - 1800AP min and i'd have to agree w/ bodh that i really recommend gorehowl or possibly an S1-S3 sword/mace and closer to 28%-30% crit.
also for kara (and assumably gruuls) a large part of being ready is knowing how to play your toon. i really recommend carying off tanking and off healing gear sets for extra flexibility.
Recent Visitors: 244
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (244)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Whats the min RET stats for Gruul's Lair? Kara?
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC