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35%? What, if they're naked an untalented? Look, I'm no number cruncher, but I don't need to go look anything up on any website to know that I've seen Druids shift more than twice in any given PvP match, and they're always casting a ton of spells in humanoid form to boot. If you'd like I can send some of the videos I've got saved.
base mana refers to the mana a character has before any other additional +mana effects such as int or raw +mana are factored in. as your int goes up, the relative % cost of the spell goes down, but its still a hefty amount of mana, especially if its being used more than once within the 5s rule. for bear form, thats 829 mana before talents, and 580 after. travel form sits at 308 mana before talents and 215 after. so if a druid is at a high % of life and thinks s/he can get away, said druid is spending 215 mana per snare break. if the druid is low and needs to break snares, s/he is spending 580 mana per snare break.
but this is assuming all druids have natural shapeshifter (which, if theyre resto or feral and pvping, they had better). so if we make the assumption that all druids have nat. SS, then we can make the assumption that all shaman will have imp. GW. for 8 talent points a druid is paying just slightly twice the mana a shaman would for the same speed boost the shaman would be getting, the same snare/root break effect, but with less armor and a polymorph immunity.
thats not gonna happen. not unless the cost of ghost wolf is upped to compensate.
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The difference being, of course, with the snare/root break, the Druid can actually get away in Travel Form so it's unlikely that he's actually going to be standing there taking a beating. Our armor isn't saving us outside of GW at the moment; it's certainly not going to do it in GW.
the fact remains that shaman would have a very low cost way of breaking snares while also maintaining a high amount of armor. if youre under focus fire, youve got a shield on you, plain and simple. any benefit the druid derives from this the shaman derives as well, only better because the shaman is higher armored. the only drawback as stated thusly is that the shaman is not immune to polymorph, but if youre being focused then thats a non-issue anyway.
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What I am asking for is either a snare/root break or a root/CC of our own to allow us to actually accomplish what we need to in PvP. I don't care where it comes from. If they have to up the mana cost on GW, great, fine, grand. I'm already sold.
Those 7 talent points, BTW, are not just lying around waiting to be used. All Shaman PvP builds are stretched extremely thin at he moment. That seven points means Elemental builds can't go far enough into Resto for Focused Mind, Nature's Swiftness, and Tidal Mastery. Resto can manage it, but just barely.
Those 7 talent points, BTW, are not just lying around waiting to be used. All Shaman PvP builds are stretched extremely thin at he moment. That seven points means Elemental builds can't go far enough into Resto for Focused Mind, Nature's Swiftness, and Tidal Mastery. Resto can manage it, but just barely.
i dont know a single class who isnt "stretched thin" when it comes to talents. i also dont know a single class that would pass down a spammable instant root/snare break for only 120 mana, even if it took 7 points into a possibly unrelated tree. even elemental could just take 7 points out of elem and stick them into enh for this change if need be, altho i dont know exactly how valuable LO is in a pvp setting, so i cant say what the cost of that would be.
but it *is* possible. and if mobility is such an issue, then 7 talents to completely negate almost every kind of anti-mobility move for 120 mana is a steal. plus you get the side benefit of a spammable counter to shatter combos.
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Just as soon as you do. If all I had to do was force Druids to shift four times before I could chalk up a W, I would be on easy street.
see above explanation about base mana.
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For a start, Druids regen mana more efficiently through gear, and spend it more slowly through spells. There is no direct comparison to be made here between one of the most mana-efficient classes and what is absolutely the least. Switching into a new form grants Druids new abilities, with the exception of travel form, which as youve stated costs very little mana for this very reason.
mana efficient? druids are horridly efficient in arena combat; really, all non-paladin healers are, and pallies only win if they can spam FoL on a BLighted target. the only benefit druids have is an ease of drinking compared to other classes, which is another benefit that shaman would derive from this change.
but again, the difference is in cost; the current incarnation of ghost wolf as a 120 mana spell would not work. thats WAY too cheap for what it allows to happen.
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2.5-3 times more armour is also a spurious comment, top-end mail has (typically) 2x the armour of leather, and to be quite frank until you get to >7k armour that isnt going to save anyone anyway.
and this is part of why, because with a shield a shaman easily tops 10k armor. even without a shield the shaman is looking at more physical mitigation then any other class but plate (-dmg buffs such as focused will and natural perfection notwithstanding because a shaman can deal with those pretty easily). druids using travel form are doing so at the cost of defensive power; theyre banking on the maneuverability to help them get away, as well as support from their team.
as it stands, the suggested change to ghost wolf is a hybrid of what bear and travel form do. thus, it should have a cost to reflect that, something between bear and travel form. there is no poly immunity, so that decreases the cost. there is higher armor than travel form, as well as identical speed to travel form, so that increases the cost over travel form. you dont get extra stamina or armor from ghost wolf, so that decreases it under bear form. hence, 25% base mana sounds about fair.
now, for a resto or an elemental that isnt too bad. both of those specs usually sit over the 9k mana range in pvp, and youre talking a cost of 700ish. not cheap, but for what it does its nice. enh would kinda be screwed because enh doesnt really stack int to any degree. 700 mana is what, a 7th of an enhancement shammies mana pool? a little less maybe?
in short, up the mana cost significantly and ill say that a specced snare/root break from a talent isnt a bad idea. but theres no way a spammable root/snare break should happen for 120 mana at level 70.
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And to be honest, YES, increase the damn mana cost if you must. Being CC'd down EVERY SINGLE TIME and having essentially no way to defend AT ALL besides significant out-gearing is getting extremely tiresome.
stop by the warrior boards; we've been like this since retail. we have a support group for it actually. we call it "LOL warriors get a healer nubz!" altho i guess in this case its more like "LOL shaman get a dispeller nubz!"
Edited, Mar 24th 2008 11:22am by Quor
