I have an undead warrior who's spent the last three months or so running between the mailbox and the auction house... I wanted to play with some lower lever friends, though, and since she was the closest in level I decided to just level her up a bit.
Anyway, what I really want to do with her is tank--I'm patient enough that even though leveling Protection is supposed to take longer, I won't mind that. And since with my friends we already have the potential for healing and dps (though the druid can always go bearform to tank, I suppose), it made sense; it's always easier to get things done with a more balanced group...
I figured that since I've been healing a lot with my shaman, and thus -watching- tanks at work, I could figure it out pretty easily. I've been having a lot of trouble, though, and could use some advice.
Today I went through Ragefire Chasm about 6-7 times because I figured it would be safer to practice there than in Wailing Caverns (which I'm just barely at the right level for) and it was interesting to say the least. I found that I had no trouble taking care of one or two mobs, but any more than that was really tricky, and I could not handle more than four at once. Although I really don't think we should have been taking on 5-7 at once anyway...I'm thinking I should get a bow so I can pull myself instead of relying on other party members. I think I did all right--one group wanted to go back through, but they'd only all do it if I came too--but that might just be a shortage of people willing to tank...
Anyway, some more specific questions:
1. Am I generally going to be expected to do the marking? I feel really uncomfortable doing it when I don't know the instance well, but it seems like that's considered one of "my" responsibilities in the tank role.
2. If I have multiple mobs on me and see another heading back towards the main group, do I follow it and try to get it on me, or do I trust the dps to handle it? I don't know that running towards everyone with several mobs following is a good thing, but maybe they'd stay on me anyway?
3. What stances should I use, and when? I only have battle and defensive so far, and found that I was having a lot of trouble keeping enough rage up so that I could use abilities. I mostly ended up staying in Battle Stance so I could charge, and just switching to Defensive for the bosses or if the fight was a bit longer and I was having trouble.
4. At a low level (17 right now) which abilities are best for generating threat, and which abilities should I be using most? What I've been doing so far is using Bloodrage, charging the skull, using Thunder Clap for the group around it, and then Sundering first the skull and then anything I can get to. I tend to use Mocking Blow and Taunt a fair bit too, when I see mobs getting away from me.
5. Should I be doing a lot of damage if I'm tanking? Most of the groups I was in had someone with a damage meter, and it kind of worries me that I've been doing a lot... usually second highest, around 20-25% of the damage dealt. I was under the impression that the tank isn't usually going to be dealing out a lot of damage...correct me on this if I'm wrong?
6. I've been approaching the idea of tanking as kind of similar to healing, in the sense that it's mainly to keep the rest of the group alive long enough to kill whatever it is we're fighting. If anyone is going to die, it had better be me... I do the best I can to keep the mobs off everyone else, and trust the healer to keep me alive as long as possible, with no hard feelings if I don't make it. Is this right, or would I be better off just rolling another healer if I want to do something that would be useful to a group?
Sorry that it's kind of long, but I really want to be the best at this that I can be. Any help is appreciated!
Here's a link to my armory page if you want to see the gear I'm working with...I think it's pretty decent for right now? http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dragonmaw&n=Isyris
Edited, Mar 18th 2008 7:05am by isyris
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- new to warrior -- questions about tanking
new to warrior -- questions about tankingFollow
Here are a few answers
1. Anyone can mark, As a tank I find it better that i mark since i know the mobs i want killed first and the order after that, but anyone can mark.
2. Depends here, If its almost dead and the DPS will have it down before too much dmg is taken, ill leave it to them. If its still going to be up and beating the tar out of the dps ill go after it. If its going after a healer i go after 100% of the time. If the DPS dies its thier own fault, if the healer dies its my fault and everyone dies.
3. Defensive stance 99.9% of the time. You take less dmg (10% i believe) in defensive stance and you should be working at getting the talent that gives you 15% more threat in defensive stance.
4. Sunder is your big threat attack at that level till you can get shield slam. I would recommend one thing, wether pulling to you or charging in, hit the 2nd target (for my groups X) then move to skull. Your DPS should know enough to give you a second to pick up some threat and hitting the alternate target and TC helps you keep him on you alot easier. I highly HIGHLY (cant stress this enough) get the mouse over sunder macro set and use it. This lets you keep Skull as your main target and keep doing white dmg to it while you sunder other mobs around you. This makes tanking multiple mobs alot easier and if you use it now it will be easier when you get to the really hard to tank spots later on.
5. Nope, you shouldnt be lots of damamge. At 70 the only ones I out DPS are the healers. In a 5man run, if im beating any DPS spec class in DPS they should be told to reroll becouse they fail. My job isnt to do dmg, my job is to take dmg. So dont worry about DPS, your going to be low. (now at lower levels youll do more dmg percentage wise than you will at 70 but as a general rule you will not be near the top of the meters)
6 Your thought process here is 100% correct. If the mobs are hitting you and the healer is keeping you alive the DPS can do thier job and kill the mobs. You are just as important to the group as the healer. A good tank can make an instance or fight seem like a cakewalk.
Hope this helps.
1. Anyone can mark, As a tank I find it better that i mark since i know the mobs i want killed first and the order after that, but anyone can mark.
2. Depends here, If its almost dead and the DPS will have it down before too much dmg is taken, ill leave it to them. If its still going to be up and beating the tar out of the dps ill go after it. If its going after a healer i go after 100% of the time. If the DPS dies its thier own fault, if the healer dies its my fault and everyone dies.
3. Defensive stance 99.9% of the time. You take less dmg (10% i believe) in defensive stance and you should be working at getting the talent that gives you 15% more threat in defensive stance.
4. Sunder is your big threat attack at that level till you can get shield slam. I would recommend one thing, wether pulling to you or charging in, hit the 2nd target (for my groups X) then move to skull. Your DPS should know enough to give you a second to pick up some threat and hitting the alternate target and TC helps you keep him on you alot easier. I highly HIGHLY (cant stress this enough) get the mouse over sunder macro set and use it. This lets you keep Skull as your main target and keep doing white dmg to it while you sunder other mobs around you. This makes tanking multiple mobs alot easier and if you use it now it will be easier when you get to the really hard to tank spots later on.
5. Nope, you shouldnt be lots of damamge. At 70 the only ones I out DPS are the healers. In a 5man run, if im beating any DPS spec class in DPS they should be told to reroll becouse they fail. My job isnt to do dmg, my job is to take dmg. So dont worry about DPS, your going to be low. (now at lower levels youll do more dmg percentage wise than you will at 70 but as a general rule you will not be near the top of the meters)
6 Your thought process here is 100% correct. If the mobs are hitting you and the healer is keeping you alive the DPS can do thier job and kill the mobs. You are just as important to the group as the healer. A good tank can make an instance or fight seem like a cakewalk.
Hope this helps.
Kudos to Sbvlad for a great job answering the questions. I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in on #2 though.
If the mob is headed for a healer you should step in and regain aggro. Having said that....I do my best to NOT run around much while tanking. If I'm chasing a random mob around trying to get aggro back I am probably not maintaining a good threat level on the other mobs.
I've also found that when you lead a string of mobs into the heart of your group, people sometimes panic and fire off every AoE at their disposal in an attempt to "help". This in turn causes even more of a problem as you may not have a huge amount of threat built up on those other mobs. I've wiped a few times because I was trying to make sure EVERYTHING was attacking me. I learned a little bit since those days. Some tips that helped me as a low-level tank
-Learn to mark properly...it's a pain but it helps a lot.
-Do your own pulling when necessary.
-Charge is not always a bad thing if used properly. Charge those isolated groups and throw a TC...works wonders for your rage and threat.
-You can hold threat on 3 mobs without too much hassle. Pick your three and build up threat on them. Trying to hold 5-6 mobs probably won't work at your level. CC them or assign an off-tank.
Every group presents it's own challenges. But it sounds like you are on the right path. Good luck.
If the mob is headed for a healer you should step in and regain aggro. Having said that....I do my best to NOT run around much while tanking. If I'm chasing a random mob around trying to get aggro back I am probably not maintaining a good threat level on the other mobs.
I've also found that when you lead a string of mobs into the heart of your group, people sometimes panic and fire off every AoE at their disposal in an attempt to "help". This in turn causes even more of a problem as you may not have a huge amount of threat built up on those other mobs. I've wiped a few times because I was trying to make sure EVERYTHING was attacking me. I learned a little bit since those days. Some tips that helped me as a low-level tank
-Learn to mark properly...it's a pain but it helps a lot.
-Do your own pulling when necessary.
-Charge is not always a bad thing if used properly. Charge those isolated groups and throw a TC...works wonders for your rage and threat.
-You can hold threat on 3 mobs without too much hassle. Pick your three and build up threat on them. Trying to hold 5-6 mobs probably won't work at your level. CC them or assign an off-tank.
Every group presents it's own challenges. But it sounds like you are on the right path. Good luck.
Having tanked a lot through my years of playing, I'll throw my thoughts in here.
1. You will be expected to mark unless there's some attention craving wise-*** in the group. I know most instances by heart at this point. When I tank on my warrior, I mark. When I DPS on my hunter, I expect the tank to mark. It's no big deal if you don't want to do it! If you feel you can't do it well you shouldn't be forced to, even if no one else in the group can do it better either.
However, to get you a jump start help with marking, here are some general rules you can have in mind:
- Targets of CC (Moon, Star, Cross, Square... depends what you're used to) should often be healers or other casters, since they mess with killing mobs or do more DPS than melee mobs (in general).
- Targets of Skull should in first hand be casters or healers if they're pullable. Getting these down will let you relax since they can't DPS/heal anymore, and having melee mobs are secondary targets is easier pulling-wise and (imo) tanking-wise.
- Targets of Trapping should be melee targets unless LOS-pulling is able, or no other choice.
- Targets of Sapping should be on the edge of groups, since your rogue doesn't want to cuddle up next to the mobbies before whacking them in the head.
- The X mark is often used as a 'kill after skull' mark (in addition to being the sap mark in a lot of cases... though sap can also be star, and so can sheep). Using this mark will let the DPS (if skilled) know what to kill earlier in the fight.
That's what I can think about for marking atm.
2. If I'm tanking someone and I lost one non-focus target, I'm about as low on the other targets I'm tanking as well. Though this doesn't happen very often, I either taunt the single mob and save Challenging Shout (you'll get that eventually.. AoE Taunt) for the case where the others might run off too, or I let it go to die (that's assuming it has low health though). I don't know how you tank though, so I can't exactly tell you what to do... Just remember your job; to keep mobs off the healer, and try to make your own decision around that.
3. I use Battle Stance for charging (if safe) and Mocking Blow. Can't really think of another use for it atm, but I might be missing something obvious... I use Berserker Stance to Intercept (you'll get both of those too, level 30-ish) runners, either for healers or other directions. I use Defensive Stance to do the tanking, since it yields increased threat and decreased damage taken. You should be in this stance most of the time while tanking, but you shouldn't neglect the very useful (and situational) abilities only available in other stances (as I can see you not, since you already know of the usefulness of Mocking Blow).
4. The level 17 tanking is pretty straight forward. You're on a very good way, though I find your exact procedure while tanking very dim. So, please excuse if I point out anything you're already doing.
- Thunder Clap is you single most effective AoE tanking tool (I would advise against sundering everything around you). Speccing Imp. TC will greatly simplify your tanking. You should use this every time you're tanking two mobs or more, both for threat and for reduced damage (though be wary of any CC close to you).
- Revenge is your single most rage efficient tanking ability. I believe it does more threat than Sunder, and if not it's at least more Threat Per Rage (and thus should be prioritized).
- Sunder has no CD or requirements (other than melee weapon...) and for that it is a very nice ability to use when you need threat on one target fast. It decreases the targets armour, giving you more Threat Per Second and melee:ers and Hunters more DPS.
Once you get Devastate you'll pretty much have to forget you ever had sunder, but you're not quite there yet.
5. Tanking at your level if very different for higher levels. I'm usually way on top of DPS meters (around 40% damage done...) when I tank on lowbie chars. You shouldn't ever be focusing on not doing a lot of damage, since damage gives you threat. What's important is that you care more about keeping mobs on you and protect the group than topping the DPS meter. If you focus on the latter you can pretty much do 80% of the DPS in the group and you won't have to give it a second thought. Only ever care about doing your job.
6. Well, yes, if someone's going to die it's either you or stoopid dee pee ezz (and that will be by you and the healer letting them die). However, as I'm sure you know, you always strive towards having no casualties after a pull.
Imo, the longer the better (don't misinterpret...). If you'd just came in here and said: "HAI PLEASE TELL ME WAHT TO DO ASS A TNAK KKTHXBYE!!!", you'd have gotten a down rate and a lot of ignores. You're very specific about what you want to know, and that's exactly what I want in posts like this.
Profile: Don't care about gear much... Until level 30 or 40+, you'll exchange it much too quickly to put thought to it. However, mind your spec. My advise: Get Imp. TC asap and devote your life to spamming it. Getting Devastate and Shield Slam 8 levels later won't change your tanking much, but Imp. TC WILL change your tanking dramatically.
Best of luck.
1. You will be expected to mark unless there's some attention craving wise-*** in the group. I know most instances by heart at this point. When I tank on my warrior, I mark. When I DPS on my hunter, I expect the tank to mark. It's no big deal if you don't want to do it! If you feel you can't do it well you shouldn't be forced to, even if no one else in the group can do it better either.
However, to get you a jump start help with marking, here are some general rules you can have in mind:
- Targets of CC (Moon, Star, Cross, Square... depends what you're used to) should often be healers or other casters, since they mess with killing mobs or do more DPS than melee mobs (in general).
- Targets of Skull should in first hand be casters or healers if they're pullable. Getting these down will let you relax since they can't DPS/heal anymore, and having melee mobs are secondary targets is easier pulling-wise and (imo) tanking-wise.
- Targets of Trapping should be melee targets unless LOS-pulling is able, or no other choice.
- Targets of Sapping should be on the edge of groups, since your rogue doesn't want to cuddle up next to the mobbies before whacking them in the head.
- The X mark is often used as a 'kill after skull' mark (in addition to being the sap mark in a lot of cases... though sap can also be star, and so can sheep). Using this mark will let the DPS (if skilled) know what to kill earlier in the fight.
That's what I can think about for marking atm.
2. If I'm tanking someone and I lost one non-focus target, I'm about as low on the other targets I'm tanking as well. Though this doesn't happen very often, I either taunt the single mob and save Challenging Shout (you'll get that eventually.. AoE Taunt) for the case where the others might run off too, or I let it go to die (that's assuming it has low health though). I don't know how you tank though, so I can't exactly tell you what to do... Just remember your job; to keep mobs off the healer, and try to make your own decision around that.
3. I use Battle Stance for charging (if safe) and Mocking Blow. Can't really think of another use for it atm, but I might be missing something obvious... I use Berserker Stance to Intercept (you'll get both of those too, level 30-ish) runners, either for healers or other directions. I use Defensive Stance to do the tanking, since it yields increased threat and decreased damage taken. You should be in this stance most of the time while tanking, but you shouldn't neglect the very useful (and situational) abilities only available in other stances (as I can see you not, since you already know of the usefulness of Mocking Blow).
4. The level 17 tanking is pretty straight forward. You're on a very good way, though I find your exact procedure while tanking very dim. So, please excuse if I point out anything you're already doing.
- Thunder Clap is you single most effective AoE tanking tool (I would advise against sundering everything around you). Speccing Imp. TC will greatly simplify your tanking. You should use this every time you're tanking two mobs or more, both for threat and for reduced damage (though be wary of any CC close to you).
- Revenge is your single most rage efficient tanking ability. I believe it does more threat than Sunder, and if not it's at least more Threat Per Rage (and thus should be prioritized).
- Sunder has no CD or requirements (other than melee weapon...) and for that it is a very nice ability to use when you need threat on one target fast. It decreases the targets armour, giving you more Threat Per Second and melee:ers and Hunters more DPS.
Once you get Devastate you'll pretty much have to forget you ever had sunder, but you're not quite there yet.
5. Tanking at your level if very different for higher levels. I'm usually way on top of DPS meters (around 40% damage done...) when I tank on lowbie chars. You shouldn't ever be focusing on not doing a lot of damage, since damage gives you threat. What's important is that you care more about keeping mobs on you and protect the group than topping the DPS meter. If you focus on the latter you can pretty much do 80% of the DPS in the group and you won't have to give it a second thought. Only ever care about doing your job.
6. Well, yes, if someone's going to die it's either you or stoopid dee pee ezz (and that will be by you and the healer letting them die). However, as I'm sure you know, you always strive towards having no casualties after a pull.
isyris wrote:
Sorry that it's kind of long, but I really want to be the best at this that I can be. Any help is appreciated!
Imo, the longer the better (don't misinterpret...). If you'd just came in here and said: "HAI PLEASE TELL ME WAHT TO DO ASS A TNAK KKTHXBYE!!!", you'd have gotten a down rate and a lot of ignores. You're very specific about what you want to know, and that's exactly what I want in posts like this.
Profile: Don't care about gear much... Until level 30 or 40+, you'll exchange it much too quickly to put thought to it. However, mind your spec. My advise: Get Imp. TC asap and devote your life to spamming it. Getting Devastate and Shield Slam 8 levels later won't change your tanking much, but Imp. TC WILL change your tanking dramatically.
Best of luck.
the fact that you're asking these questions is a good sign in itself. and you got some really good answers, so take them to heart. i would add only a couple of points.
1) i often will ask someone else to mark if it's my first time through an instance - otherwise i do it.
2) teach party members to run to you if they get agro. if the healer gets agro, regain agro ASAP (taunt usually). if it's dps, and they pulled a secondary target, then consider the situtation - if it puts the group at risk to get the mob back, then /wave and hope you don't have a druid healer on cooldown :P
3) if you are dancing to battle stance too much, that could explain your rage issues. just stay in defensive stance while you're learning - it's very rare that you need to swap. you should not have to use taunt more often that it's cooldown unless something is going very wrong.
4) what utarius said
5) no - in a good group you should be 4th on the list. you are holding a shield in one hand, so how can you do as much damage as someone with two weapons? typically, this means you have dps classes that are a little weak - not uncommon at low levels. ask the person to also post the "damage taken" report to see where you shine.
6) having rolled every class at least once, i am of the opinion that tanking is the most difficult role in the game - especially if you want to be good at it. and yeah, you're pretty useful :)
stam and strength is what you want to look for now. strength becomes less important later in the game, but helps a lot pre-BC. you will change armor quickly but you are one of the most gear-dependent classes in the game, especially as a tank, so try not to fall too far behind.
and this one point i do disagree with utarius on - i also leveled as protection and devastate changes your life! i kept improved TC until level 40, then respec'd to get shield slam and stayed there until i got devastate - then i went back and picked up improved TC.
1) i often will ask someone else to mark if it's my first time through an instance - otherwise i do it.
2) teach party members to run to you if they get agro. if the healer gets agro, regain agro ASAP (taunt usually). if it's dps, and they pulled a secondary target, then consider the situtation - if it puts the group at risk to get the mob back, then /wave and hope you don't have a druid healer on cooldown :P
3) if you are dancing to battle stance too much, that could explain your rage issues. just stay in defensive stance while you're learning - it's very rare that you need to swap. you should not have to use taunt more often that it's cooldown unless something is going very wrong.
4) what utarius said
5) no - in a good group you should be 4th on the list. you are holding a shield in one hand, so how can you do as much damage as someone with two weapons? typically, this means you have dps classes that are a little weak - not uncommon at low levels. ask the person to also post the "damage taken" report to see where you shine.
6) having rolled every class at least once, i am of the opinion that tanking is the most difficult role in the game - especially if you want to be good at it. and yeah, you're pretty useful :)
stam and strength is what you want to look for now. strength becomes less important later in the game, but helps a lot pre-BC. you will change armor quickly but you are one of the most gear-dependent classes in the game, especially as a tank, so try not to fall too far behind.
and this one point i do disagree with utarius on - i also leveled as protection and devastate changes your life! i kept improved TC until level 40, then respec'd to get shield slam and stayed there until i got devastate - then i went back and picked up improved TC.
sbvlad wrote:
I highly HIGHLY (cant stress this enough) get the mouse over sunder macro set and use it.
Can you provide some more info on this macro? It sounds pretty damn handy to me.
1 post
Aniclator wrote:
Can you provide some more info on this macro? It sounds pretty damn handy to me.
It is pretty handy! I heard about these mouseover macros before while trolling, so I did a quick google and came across this forum: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=54980555
That mostly talks about using it for curing diseases and dispelling magic, but it should be the same code for any skill (/cast [target=mouseover] insert skill here).
You just hover your mouse over a mob, hit whatever key is bound to that macro and you'll use that skill on 'em without deselecting your current target.
Not very knowledgeable with warriors, so bear with me.
If a mage sheep-pulls, what's the best way to gather the mobs (2-3 are running toward the mage)?
If a mage sheep-pulls, what's the best way to gather the mobs (2-3 are running toward the mage)?
Pinkbullet wrote:
Not very knowledgeable with warriors, so bear with me.
If a mage sheep-pulls, what's the best way to gather the mobs (2-3 are running toward the mage)?
If a mage sheep-pulls, what's the best way to gather the mobs (2-3 are running toward the mage)?
Thunderclap.
EDIT: More precisely, Bloodrage and Thunderclap. Bloodrage should get all the mobs heading for you because when in-combat Rage gains cause some threat, and Thunderclap will make sure everything sticks to you.
Edited, Mar 20th 2008 9:46pm by RPZip
Aniclator wrote:
sbvlad wrote:
I highly HIGHLY (cant stress this enough) get the mouse over sunder macro set and use it.
Can you provide some more info on this macro? It sounds pretty damn handy to me.
/cast [target=mouseover,harm,nodead] ______________
Replace the __________ with the skill you want to use, sunder, devastate or others. I have this assigned to one of my 5 mouse buttons and go to town.
If you have sunder and Devastate have both, you can sunder CC'd mobs and use Devastate on non CC'd mobs while never changing main target.
Just to add a little side note to what Utarius said with marks. There's also the Circle. In my experience as a rogue, the circle (or as some people call it the center of the female's chest girly part =P) is usually for sap.
Moon is sheep
Square is freeze
Diamond is Seduce
Of course, as stated above, it all really depends on the group. People usually have different meanings for each so it's good to state at the beginning of the run what each mark is before starting.
Just a bit more info and 2cents
Moon is sheep
Square is freeze
Diamond is Seduce
Of course, as stated above, it all really depends on the group. People usually have different meanings for each so it's good to state at the beginning of the run what each mark is before starting.
Just a bit more info and 2cents
Thanks for all of the advice, everyone; I've now moved on from Ragefire Chasm to Wailing Caverns, which I know well enough to feel secure about marking (had to go through 20-some times on my shaman for the Embrace of the Viper set). Unfortunately on my first run through, the party's shaman decided to run forward and attack everything before I could make a move, so I spent most of the time pulling aggro off of him. I was careful of the healer, though, and if someone hadn't pulled Pythas early we wouldn't have wiped at all. I stayed in Defensive Stance pretty much the whole time, and my mouse turning has improved my a -lot-. I'm planning my second run through now, which should go easier since I've hit 19 now...I'll probably try for sometime after I get done with classes tomorrow, and look for a group myself so that I don't have to ask to have leadership passed to me.
That mouseover macro sounds really useful, so I'll be setting it up, and I also installed a damage meter. I really wish I could find a threat meter to see how I'm doing as a tank, but it seems like they all require the other party members to have the same one? (Which seems unlikely for PUGs.)
That mouseover macro sounds really useful, so I'll be setting it up, and I also installed a damage meter. I really wish I could find a threat meter to see how I'm doing as a tank, but it seems like they all require the other party members to have the same one? (Which seems unlikely for PUGs.)
Some non-specific advice:
At low levels, tanking is a lot different and more frustrating than it is as you level up. Stuff will either hit hard, or barely scratch you, and theres not much in-between. The biggest thing that affects tanking is your level. You will find that lvling up once makes an instance incredibly easier. So I guess that point is, don't take your experiences and expect it to remain the same through lvl 70. It gets (mechanically) easier.
Get a bow and stay in defensive stance. Yes, the extra threat in defense stance is very very noticeable. While charge is useful, you shouldn't have the talents to change stances and keep your rage, not yet.
Low level dps tend to be dumb. Half the time they see themselves as bad-*** soloers, and think it translates to elite instance mobs. The worst part is that it won't kill them if they think this way. It will, however, drain the healer's mana. So if you get a dps that likes to pull before you're ready, or focuses on a separate target, just grit your teeth and decide what is best for the group. Sometimes that will mean sending a tell to the healer to let him die, and sometimes it will mean just letting him tank that mob.
Yes threat meters require others in the group to have one, but they are common enough that more often than not someone else has one. As the tank, you want to get either KTM or Omen, since any dps that also has one of those will be able to see how hard they can push it. Both KTM and Omen work with each other, so its up to you which one you choose. I will tell you that Omen is more popular.
Anyway, keep plugging away. Tanking only gets better with levels.
Edited, Mar 23rd 2008 5:04pm by Zeynothix
At low levels, tanking is a lot different and more frustrating than it is as you level up. Stuff will either hit hard, or barely scratch you, and theres not much in-between. The biggest thing that affects tanking is your level. You will find that lvling up once makes an instance incredibly easier. So I guess that point is, don't take your experiences and expect it to remain the same through lvl 70. It gets (mechanically) easier.
Get a bow and stay in defensive stance. Yes, the extra threat in defense stance is very very noticeable. While charge is useful, you shouldn't have the talents to change stances and keep your rage, not yet.
Low level dps tend to be dumb. Half the time they see themselves as bad-*** soloers, and think it translates to elite instance mobs. The worst part is that it won't kill them if they think this way. It will, however, drain the healer's mana. So if you get a dps that likes to pull before you're ready, or focuses on a separate target, just grit your teeth and decide what is best for the group. Sometimes that will mean sending a tell to the healer to let him die, and sometimes it will mean just letting him tank that mob.
Yes threat meters require others in the group to have one, but they are common enough that more often than not someone else has one. As the tank, you want to get either KTM or Omen, since any dps that also has one of those will be able to see how hard they can push it. Both KTM and Omen work with each other, so its up to you which one you choose. I will tell you that Omen is more popular.
Anyway, keep plugging away. Tanking only gets better with levels.
Edited, Mar 23rd 2008 5:04pm by Zeynothix
I'm a new Warrior as well (and first time WoW player), and I figured I would post some quick questions I had in here since the advice given to Isyris has helped me a lot and I do not think they warrant another topic.
I play in a static with two other friends, and we've pretty much done everything together up until this point (level 38). We enjoy doing the instances, just the three of us, at the minimum requirement level, and they always went fine up until now. Yesterday we tried Razorken Downs, and it didn't go so well. The static is me - www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Whisperwind&n=Berdysh , a Beast Mastery Hunter and a Feral Druid. I've been using that hybrid Arms build with a two-hander, switching to sword and board for bosses or larger pulls, but in RD I was a total mana sink (especially on pulls with a Warlock-type mob). Every single pull was a struggle, and what I'm mainly wondering is...
1. Should I go with a more pointed spec for this style of play? We're in no rush to hit 70, and I want to continue doing instances whenever we can, so would spec'ing out in full Protection make much of a difference? I rather keep the hybrid build, if at all possible, but if changing to Protect spec early would make things easier I'd do so. I was using a shield the whole way, by the way.
2. Another thought was, the instances are simply starting to scale with level more now and if we're going to continue going with three people we probably need to get 2-3 levels above the recommended level. Most of the pulls were of the 3 grunt, 1 mage variety, and while we handled the majority of them, there were a few times where the Druid was tapping on mana keeping me alive while I held everything before we were able to get them down, and I'd die.
3. Would the Druid going full Restoration have a substantial impact?
4. More of a misc. question, but... I notice both Shield Slam and Mortal Strike would be accessible soon if I went for a more directed build. Would it be more advantageous to try to obtain one of those, ASAP?
Edited, Mar 23rd 2008 10:09pm by Berdysh
I play in a static with two other friends, and we've pretty much done everything together up until this point (level 38). We enjoy doing the instances, just the three of us, at the minimum requirement level, and they always went fine up until now. Yesterday we tried Razorken Downs, and it didn't go so well. The static is me - www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Whisperwind&n=Berdysh , a Beast Mastery Hunter and a Feral Druid. I've been using that hybrid Arms build with a two-hander, switching to sword and board for bosses or larger pulls, but in RD I was a total mana sink (especially on pulls with a Warlock-type mob). Every single pull was a struggle, and what I'm mainly wondering is...
1. Should I go with a more pointed spec for this style of play? We're in no rush to hit 70, and I want to continue doing instances whenever we can, so would spec'ing out in full Protection make much of a difference? I rather keep the hybrid build, if at all possible, but if changing to Protect spec early would make things easier I'd do so. I was using a shield the whole way, by the way.
2. Another thought was, the instances are simply starting to scale with level more now and if we're going to continue going with three people we probably need to get 2-3 levels above the recommended level. Most of the pulls were of the 3 grunt, 1 mage variety, and while we handled the majority of them, there were a few times where the Druid was tapping on mana keeping me alive while I held everything before we were able to get them down, and I'd die.
3. Would the Druid going full Restoration have a substantial impact?
4. More of a misc. question, but... I notice both Shield Slam and Mortal Strike would be accessible soon if I went for a more directed build. Would it be more advantageous to try to obtain one of those, ASAP?
Edited, Mar 23rd 2008 10:09pm by Berdysh
First off: Are you three-manning instances, or are you always instancing together but with random 4th and 5th members?
If you're three-manning, Feral Druid, Hybrid Warr and BM hunter might be the worst of combos... You've got three tanks and one DPS:er. We'll get back to that.
1. Yes, you should focus on one spec, especially for leveling. You speccing prot is pretty much useless if the druid's feral, so arms or 2h fury would both be good options.
2. I don't know how you do this, but having the pet off-tank one mob will greatly increase your survivability. It only needs Mend Pet constantly ticking, and maybe the odd HoT attention from the druid. That's enough for you (or who ever's tanking) to only having to tank 3 mobs.
3. Yes, this would have a huge impact since you'd be able to spec prot. This would make you two perfect for your roles in the instance, since I believe feral healing can be a bitch. A skilled BM hunter is very capable of dealing the DPS all by himself (I should know).
4. Spot on. ALL your 7th tier talents are very worth getting asap. While I'd suggest you get Imp. TC instead of Shield Slam if you go for a tanking build, both ways are just fine. And if you go full arms, MS is the only option. Stop after that though, as Endless Rage is worthless and Imp. MS too many TP's for too little improvement. However, if you should go with a DPS build: Consider going 2h fury. It's very good, even better personal DPS than 2h arms (especially at lower levels). All you need to do in know how to rotate slam nicely.
To specify what specs I'm recommending here, so you don't get lost:
Prot build. Or, vareity, but I suggest the first. Depends on your playstyle too of course... In any case, you'll want to end up with this. You might need another respec for endgame tough.
Arms build. Eventually landing at this. Or PvP variety, other variety... Well, that's about it for arms.
2h Fury build. Or PvP variety.
Any more questions, just fire away.
If you're three-manning, Feral Druid, Hybrid Warr and BM hunter might be the worst of combos... You've got three tanks and one DPS:er. We'll get back to that.
1. Yes, you should focus on one spec, especially for leveling. You speccing prot is pretty much useless if the druid's feral, so arms or 2h fury would both be good options.
2. I don't know how you do this, but having the pet off-tank one mob will greatly increase your survivability. It only needs Mend Pet constantly ticking, and maybe the odd HoT attention from the druid. That's enough for you (or who ever's tanking) to only having to tank 3 mobs.
3. Yes, this would have a huge impact since you'd be able to spec prot. This would make you two perfect for your roles in the instance, since I believe feral healing can be a bitch. A skilled BM hunter is very capable of dealing the DPS all by himself (I should know).
4. Spot on. ALL your 7th tier talents are very worth getting asap. While I'd suggest you get Imp. TC instead of Shield Slam if you go for a tanking build, both ways are just fine. And if you go full arms, MS is the only option. Stop after that though, as Endless Rage is worthless and Imp. MS too many TP's for too little improvement. However, if you should go with a DPS build: Consider going 2h fury. It's very good, even better personal DPS than 2h arms (especially at lower levels). All you need to do in know how to rotate slam nicely.
To specify what specs I'm recommending here, so you don't get lost:
Prot build. Or, vareity, but I suggest the first. Depends on your playstyle too of course... In any case, you'll want to end up with this. You might need another respec for endgame tough.
Arms build. Eventually landing at this. Or PvP variety, other variety... Well, that's about it for arms.
2h Fury build. Or PvP variety.
Any more questions, just fire away.
Thanks a lot for the answers. We came over from being highly involved in another MMO's end-game scene, so we'd like to keep the self-reliant small group deal going as long as we can. Obviously, when it starts becoming too much of a headache we'll give in and start assembling 5-person teams, but for now we're trying to 3-man instances.
I wanted to let the Druid keep Feral spec as long as possible, because she came over from being a full-time healer on the other game and is really enjoying being able to farm and solo on her own. I suppose having her change to Restoration really wouldn't impede that too much, though?
You pretty much answered all questions and concerns I had, for now. The only part I'm still unclear on is, I've read a lot about Arms Warrior's tanking instances just fine up until Outlands. I'm wondering how this relates to my situation - I do enjoy having the ability to dish out damage and smack my Hunter friend around in duels, but I did plan on playing a tank at end-game. My plan was to stick it out with Arms as long as I could, while still tanking instances, until it became clear I could be doing a far superior job by changing to a Protection build. Would going Protection this early make all the difference in tanking, or could I train myself better at tanking and make an Arms build work fine in my little group?
Edited, Mar 24th 2008 3:30pm by Berdysh
I wanted to let the Druid keep Feral spec as long as possible, because she came over from being a full-time healer on the other game and is really enjoying being able to farm and solo on her own. I suppose having her change to Restoration really wouldn't impede that too much, though?
You pretty much answered all questions and concerns I had, for now. The only part I'm still unclear on is, I've read a lot about Arms Warrior's tanking instances just fine up until Outlands. I'm wondering how this relates to my situation - I do enjoy having the ability to dish out damage and smack my Hunter friend around in duels, but I did plan on playing a tank at end-game. My plan was to stick it out with Arms as long as I could, while still tanking instances, until it became clear I could be doing a far superior job by changing to a Protection build. Would going Protection this early make all the difference in tanking, or could I train myself better at tanking and make an Arms build work fine in my little group?
Edited, Mar 24th 2008 3:30pm by Berdysh
Berdysh wrote:
she came over from being a full-time healer on the other game and is really enjoying being able to farm and solo on her own. I suppose having her change to Restoration really wouldn't impede that too much, though?
Well... actually resto druid is the single most painful solo spec in the game.
Berdysh wrote:
I've read a lot about Arms Warrior's tanking instances just fine up until Outlands. I'm wondering how this relates to my situation - I do enjoy having the ability to dish out damage and smack my Hunter friend around in duels, but I did plan on playing a tank at end-game. My plan was to stick it out with Arms as long as I could, while still tanking instances, until it became clear I could be doing a far superior job by changing to a Protection build. Would going Protection this early make all the difference in tanking, or could I train myself better at tanking and make an Arms build work fine in my little group?
I'm sorry, I was jumping conclusions. How much does this group instance and how much do you solo?
You can tank everything, even past outlands, as Arms/Fury. However, Prot will make instancing a hell of a lot easier. You have to weigh in how much time you spend doing what in the game, and spec accordingly.
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