How am i so far off uncrashabillity rating? Advice?Follow

Here is a link to my armory http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Frostwolf&n=Myrmidantwon

anyway, i've been looking at a lot of websites like maintankadin, read all the stickies here, been everywhere.

I've been trying to prep my gear for KAra and heroics but, I obviously am falling way short in terms of uncrushability and I dont understand why. Granted, i dont have libram or repentance but even if i did, i wouldn't make the requirements...

as far as gear replacement BEFORE Kara, what do i need to do to get the necessary stam and avoidance i'm looking for?

(i hope to get continuum blade with spellpower today so yeah disregard weapon)

Base Miss = 5%
Def Miss = 6.16%
Dodge = 17.2%
Parry = 13.89%
Block = 13.06%
HS = 30%

85.31% Combined Block/Avoid.

You're short 17.09%

Rather than the Contiunuum Blade, consider a Crystalforged Sword. Get a Shield of the Wayward Footman. Pick up a Devilshark Cape, CE Rep Necklace, ANYTHING but those Warchief's Pauldrons (which are worse than the Mana Tombs Pauldrons of Brute Force Even) preferably either the Warrior or Paladin Dungeon set from Tempest Keep (Bold or Righteous). Work towards a Libram of Repentance and Figurine of the Colossus.

Your gear looks like where most Paladins are at when they first hit uncrittable. Then the long struggle to uncrushable begins. You WILL NOT be able to reach uncrushable in Raid-Entry level blues if you try to stack Dodge. At that item level, you need to rely on Block Rating to put you over the top.

2.4 Defense Rating = 1 Defense = .04 Miss/Doge/Parry/Block
20 Defense Rating = 1% Dodge/Parry/Miss (combined)
15 Defense Rating = 1% Dodge/Parry/Miss/Block (combined)
18.9 Dodge Rating = 1% Dodge
23.7 Parry Rating = 1% Parry
7.9 Block Rating = 1% Block

(NOT COUNTING AGILITY)

Wayward Footman = 2.72%
Crystalforged = 1.4%
Devilshark = 1.51%
CE Rep Neck = 1.49%
Righteous Shoulders = 0.56%
Libram of Repentance = ~5.0%
Shatari Vindicator's Belt = 3.70%
Figurine of the Colossus = 4.06%

Total of 20.44% but to be FAIR I'm replacing items with some defense that you have already, so it's probably more like 18.5%

That puts you over the top without having to enchant (which you should) or regem (which wow.. you probably should seeing all those hybrids)

Your legs suck too btw.. There's alot of argument for the Resolute Defenders but honestly, you can get MORE stamina, MORE armor, and MORE avoidance using Felsteel Legs properly gemmed. Resolutes give .84% with their Parry stat. Felsteels with 1 Solid Star and 2 Subtle Rubies give .85% Dodge, AND have more defense and stamina. If you subbed a 3rd ruby in, even more avoidance though I'd want all the Stamina I could muster at that level.

Since we've found a way to do it mostly with gear, I'd suggest swapping most of your gems for stamina, especially that spell damage junk since you'll be picking up a new sword. Once you've enchanted it should more than cover any loss to defense and avoidance you take.

Sorry for any bluntness, I'm not suggesting anything by it -- just wanted to cut straight to what would benefit you.

Edited, Mar 17th 2008 11:08pm by Losie

You are at the bare minimum to start putting your foot in the easier heroics with a good group. I'd suggest at least running Mechanar and Botanica on regular once to complete "Breaking into the Arcatraz" and getting the Sha'tari Vindicator's Belt first, because that is a HUGE piece as you can see from the %s I gave in my last post. If you can, run Shattered Halls to get the Figurine of the Colossus. Steam Vaults is easy, and in the runs it'll take to get to Exalted for the CE rep necklace, you should be able to get the Devilshark Cape to drop which is HUGE too. I'd suggest grabbing all of these before trying heroics, or at the very least going with a group you know well.

Paladin shields are tricky. Wayward Footman is the best shield for us UNTIL you start getting raid gear. Remember when I said you cant get uncrush by stacking Dodge with pre-raid gear? All of a sudden the upgrades you get with skyrocket your avoidance stats up and you can drop some block, when this happens you can look at a Crest of the Shat'ar or Kara shield drop. Until then, Pallies get the most out of the Wayward Footman, despite any other stats. Warriors love those high block value ones though.

Also note that I've excluded Agility as a measure in all of my gear ratings I listed there, which means the numbers won't be totally right, but they'll get you there for sure.

hmn thats good, yeah i'm gonna start farming SV for the back piece and the rep as well as run shattered halls cuz I really dig the figurine.

I also got to find the quest that starts the run for the belt but agreed, the belt is awesome.

yeah i dont mind cap jack or what not, that guide and the defense mitigation one is what help me outline my gear progression (although i greatly undersetimated the task it would be to get avoidance.)

but i do mind people criticizing my effort to research. elitism from a guy tanking in blues and kara gear does not impress me - regardless of theorycraft.

All other posts, very helpful.

thank you very much for all the informative replies.

Since my opening post I have since changed some gear choices as well as added new gems to some slots (which I will be sure to replace with +12 stam as I progress).

after calculating, looks as if I'm roughly around 90% avoidance.

As discussed, I'll be looking to get the arc chain belt(3.7%), the back from SV(1.5%), hopefuly the trinket from Shattered Halls (4.06%), and the libram(5%) after a kara run.

Thank u all who have posted in this thread because while it may be difficult task to achieve the necessary avoidance to be uncrushable, its quite simple once u know where to look. U have all helped me quite a bit and I appreciate this information. Thanks.

Currently:

 
Base Miss = 5.00% 
Miss      = 6.56% 
Dodge     = 17.85% 
Parry     = 16.69% 
Block     = 13.46% 
HS        = 30% 
------------------- 
          ( 102.4% - ) 
Total     = 89.65% 
=================== 
          = 12.75% 

You're 4.34% closer from reworking a little bit. It looks like you've got all of the smaller contributers covered, now it's just those nasty annoying big important pieces that take a good investment of time to get :D Grats!

*PS (In perfect Third Person)* Losie's a dude, dude.

Edited, Mar 18th 2008 12:21pm by Losie

Sry if this seems redundant to this thread, I didn't read everything posted. Just wanted to put my 2 cents in...

Our guild cleared many of the bosses in Kara, including Prince, before any tank reached 102.4% avoidance. I'd say the MT (which is a pally) was around 98% when he was downed the first time.

First time I ran Kara was upto & thru Curator. I was at roughly 89% avoidance (500 def.) 14,500 buffed HPs and maybe 13k armor +/- 500. I OTd just fine.

That run I picked up an additional 6% avoidance just from 2 up-grades (boots/helm). Not to mention HPs & armor increases.

So in short, if your guild allows it... you "really" do not "need" 102.4% avoidance. Just make sure everyone in the group knows & understands. If your healers know what to expect they can help keep you up. In the mean-time, PUG the 5-mans you need (KoT rep is big for pally tanks... legs + head enchant).

Good Luck!

Kz

Edited, Mar 18th 2008 2:18pm by Killzon

I was uncrushable without heroic gear nor kara gear. I got it from instance blues, quests, and crafted items. I highly recommend this gear for ya:

Sha'tari Vindicator's Waistguard Losing 3 def rating but gaining over 3.5% block rating.

Strength of the Untamed 2 more defense, and .95 more avoidance.

Jade-Skull Breastplate You would lose about 10 actual Defense (About .4 to each block dodge and parry) but gain nearly 3% Block rating. You would also lose about 1% dodge. Honestly once you do get uncrushable go back to the Hauberk. Its for reducing your damage. This is if that 1% is really worth it to you.

Devilshark Cape 3 less defense rating, but .95% Dodge. Also get these enchanted the same.

Figurine of the Colossus 4.6% block and a loss of 26 defense rating. Still a major upgrade.


So with a loss of 34 Defense rating (14.32 skill, or 2.3 total avoidance from miss, dodge, parry, block) you would gain 10% avoidance. With your libram you would be uncrushable right?

Oh btw, the figures just above do not include the chest adjustment.


**Edit...

So wow I gotta read whole posts. The OP already saw to get all 4 peices I recommended. Im going away again >.<

Edited, Mar 18th 2008 4:26pm by ramera

My apologies to CapJAck on this, I didn't mean to come off as a u know...

anyway, i researched one of the threads that I made a vested effort in following and it was this one : http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?t=4844

Its labeled as a "FAilsafe Uncrushability Guide" and it was one that I used to check what gear I had with.

I guess I was being a little impatient with the fact that I was missing osmething like 15% avoidance or whatnot and didn't realize that the belt and the trinkets and whatnot would really help boost me over the necessary amount so my bad :p

But, like i mentioned earlier, I am VERY skeptical about tanking ANY heroics. My main is a healer and IMO, if a healer doesn't have +1500 or so heals and decent regen and if a tank does'nt have at least 12k life and uncrittable and uncrushable status, I wouldn't want to run the instance with them.

Of course this is highly debatable but with damage per blow output reaching a 3rd of a tank's life, it does seem like its worth taking a look at.

Now perhaps this is kind of a paradox of sorts, but even with things like the libram or those gear pieces from heroics, those things are helping u attain that uncrushability status. Is it ok to say that an uncrittable tank with lets say, 13k life SHOULD run those easier heroics to attain the gear? I am just wondering cuz personally, I want to stay out of all the heroic mumbo jumbo with my pally till I get the gear in the previous posts. Opinions?

Edited, Mar 18th 2008 6:43pm by kensanity

What would be your recommended stats then to tank heroics then? lets say the low level (UB/SP/MECH) and high level (SH/SH/SL/ARC)?

Like benchmark wise, what requirements in terms of:
Defense (490 obvious but more is better too right?)
Avoidance (uncrushable unnecessary but what is necessary then?)
Spell Damage (150 or so?)
Mana Pool and regen (I have really low mana pool and even with heals coming in I can't help to think that I should have a mana pool of at least 5.5k or so)
Stam (unbuffed? 12k?)
Mitigation (armor?)
Anything else if I missed it?

I have seen some values for some of these stats listed in various threads, but there hasn't been one that sets like an average universal value (or at least not one that I've seen). Your opinons?

I'll ask here to save from creating a new thread...

I'm looking for some adjustment/tweaking advice. I seem to be reaching the end of the "pre-raid/kara" phase, starting to look toward kara/heroic time, and i'm looking for some constructive criticism as i go.

Armory is in the sig, and here's a few notes:

I've had bad luck finding Mech groups, or getting the drop, for the Jade-Skull. Should i keep trying, or stick with Vindicator's?

I've only had the chance to run Shattered Halls once, and the trinket was a no-show, so that's still something i have my eye on.

I intend to get the rep for KoT pants/glyph.

Wayward Footman or keep the Platinum with the BR enchant?

I still have my CFS even though i got the S1 Mace.

I also have saved some of my other pieces that could be interchanged, but i won't throw out a whole list right now, that seems excessive.

I agree, the HPs are a primary concern to me.
I've also managed to scrape together ~7 badges toward the libram by squeezing by in a couple full/partial heroic groups.

You may have noticed that my guild is just a small group of friends. I'm currently talking to my guild members, and a laid back casual guild that has 3-4 kara groups, and dabbles in some 25man content, about a little merger. I think that will go a long way toward gearing/progressing our characters at this stage.

Thanks for the affirmation that i'm on the right track and thinking correctly, and have fun ;)

This is a nice shield, not knocking it, but you might consider grinding Sha'tar rep instead and saving your Badges for the bigger upgrades like the chest, or even for the 2.4 stuff (if you get a lot of Badges frequently).

Comparing Crest of the Sha'tar (exalted with Sha'tar) to Azure Shield of Coldarra (Badge reward) with 2 Enduring Talasites in the Crest, the Badge shield has:

+203 armor
+16 Block
+1 Defense
-3 Dodge

Not a huge difference whereas the Chestguard of the Stoic Guardian will be the best chest you can get for a while.