this thing is friggin impossible!!
anyways I'm resto. and I'm beginning to think my skills are lacking. We just can't keep the tanks up. I don't understand how guilds with 1600 healers got thru this thing. I can't do it with 1735 healing. Should I be healing the main tanks or healing rest of party? I have the highest healing, so I'm usually stuck as a main tank healer. Mana consumption is really bad on this fight too. I'm talking about the first boss btw. bear/troll guy.
Kara is like a cake walk for our guild. But I think our guild lacks the skill and/or gear for much more progression. It's frustrating because Kara has become so easy it's just not fun mindlessly farming badges. Wish there was something else we can do.
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thrashering wrote:
We just can't keep the tanks up.
If your tanks aren't at least fully Kara-geared then they are not ready to take hits in ZA. And I don't mean they've just cleared Kara. I mean they are decked out head-to-toe in Kara and badge epics at the bare minimum.
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Should I be healing the main tanks or healing rest of party?
If you're not clear on this then you're running with a terrible group. You should have three healers, one designated to each tank and then a cross-raid healer. And you should all be very, very clear on your assigned rolls before the first pull of the instance.
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I have the highest healing, so I'm usually stuck as a main tank healer. Mana consumption is really bad on this fight too. I'm talking about the first boss btw. bear/troll guy.
Shaman are extremely strong cross-raid healers, typically the worst choice for tank healers. You want fast, efficient, constant heals, which Paladins and Druids can provide the best. HW is too slow and LHW is extremely mana-inefficient, so if you're spamming that, that's why you're running out of mana.
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Kara is like a cake walk for our guild. But I think our guild lacks the skill and/or gear for much more progression. It's frustrating because Kara has become so easy it's just not fun mindlessly farming badges. Wish there was something else we can do.
ZA is honestly not that much harder than Kara. It's just a gear-check. You have to have the required gear levels for both of your tanks and all of your healers, especially.
Edited, Mar 16th 2008 1:44am by Gaudion
With that much +healing, you should have great mana efficiency with downranked chainheals. And you should be the raid healer, not a MT healer, but keep Earth Shield on the main tank. Farther than that, you seem like you know completely what you're doing.
Bear boss is more of a test of your tanks than the healers IMO.
In both phases, both tanks MUST be stacked so that they both take the cleave. If they're not, the current phase tank will take about 15,000 damage and die--very little you can do as a healer.
The transition between phases is also vital for the tanks. If the second tank doesn't taunt in time, the first tank will eat a bleed effect while under the mangle debuff--VERY hard to recover from as a healer. Same in reverse for the p2->p1 transition. Taunt rotations are key to this fight: the p1 (troll) tank MUST NOT get a bleed effect, and the p2 (bear) tank MUST NOT get the mangle debuff. If they do, healers will not be able to keep them up.
As for problems for the healers, the silence is a minor nusience, but a poorly-timed one can cause a wipe: druids/priests keep HoT's up just in case. AoE damage is relitively light. The bigger problem sounds like mana, in which case there's not much you can do for this fight but pot early and often; a shadow priest could also help.
All damage is physical, so tell your mage to go nuts with amp magic.
In both phases, both tanks MUST be stacked so that they both take the cleave. If they're not, the current phase tank will take about 15,000 damage and die--very little you can do as a healer.
The transition between phases is also vital for the tanks. If the second tank doesn't taunt in time, the first tank will eat a bleed effect while under the mangle debuff--VERY hard to recover from as a healer. Same in reverse for the p2->p1 transition. Taunt rotations are key to this fight: the p1 (troll) tank MUST NOT get a bleed effect, and the p2 (bear) tank MUST NOT get the mangle debuff. If they do, healers will not be able to keep them up.
As for problems for the healers, the silence is a minor nusience, but a poorly-timed one can cause a wipe: druids/priests keep HoT's up just in case. AoE damage is relitively light. The bigger problem sounds like mana, in which case there's not much you can do for this fight but pot early and often; a shadow priest could also help.
All damage is physical, so tell your mage to go nuts with amp magic.
Scholar
48 posts
LOL....Our guild tried this last night just to ***** around. I am a resto shaman with healing at 1170. I was assigned to main heal a tank. Needless to say, we could not take him down either. One time at the start of the fight, I hit HW rank 12, and the time it took me to cast it the tank went from full health to dead with those cleaves. Another time, when I was silenced, he went from full health to dead. He was a pretty well geared tank...lots of Kara stuff. I was trying to mix in CH along when I could to help out raid heals, since CH is the signature Shaman heal, but always eventually we would wipe.Anyways, we were there just to see what was going on, but we were expecting to at least get by the first boss, but it wasn't to be.
1170 healing! I hope that was a typo, or you were wasting 9 other people's time.
Scholar
48 posts
Yeah, actually it was a typo, my actual healing was 1159. As for wasting 9 other peoples time, you might be correct, but....well, but nothing, I guess you are right. Fortunately though, WOW is just a game to most of us.
Seriously though, our guild was just ******** around and some people wanted to just check out ZA. I told them what my healing was before we went in. We all had fun, at an expense of gold for repairs.
Seriously though, our guild was just ******** around and some people wanted to just check out ZA. I told them what my healing was before we went in. We all had fun, at an expense of gold for repairs.
No offense to the ZA hopeful's but if you are gettin through kara and maybe gruul's, ZA is definitely not the place for you. Ok I lied, maybe the first boss or two is, but after that you're pretty much SOL. ZA is often looked at as the next place to go after kara, which imo is a common mistake.
Getting through Kara is easy. ZA should not be the next place to go. Go to Gruul, progress on to MAG/TK/SSC, unless you just want to farm the first boss in ZA forever and lack in guild progression.
Getting through Kara is easy. ZA should not be the next place to go. Go to Gruul, progress on to MAG/TK/SSC, unless you just want to farm the first boss in ZA forever and lack in guild progression.
1 post
On the Bear boss in ZA, all healers should be focusing on the main tanks. As a shaman healer with 2100 healing who regularly runs with groups that clear ZA, I will offer what I do.
I spam rank 8-10 HW on whichever tank has agro. During the switch, I will cast a chain heal or two to heal up both tanks. Occasionally I may throw a max rank HW on one of the tanks if they begin to get too low, or after a silence. It is important to continuously spam heals to ensure the tanks hp stays high enough for them to survive a couple seconds during the silences. I let the other healers heal any ranged who take damage (usually a druid who can keep hots on the MT while tossing some hots on the ranged). Alternatively, you could keep healing stream totem down to clean up damage taken by ranged, but I prefer the large mana boost from mana spring instead. Chain heal can clean up any damage mele takes. Chain heal isn't too useful in this fight though because A.) It is mostly the tanks taking damage and B.) All ranged should be spread out to minimize the number of people who take damage during the charge; thus chain heal would be inefficient to heal these people who are spread out.
The other posters were correct in that this is a gear check for the tanks. I've been in ZA with slightly undergeared tanks and could not keep them up on the bear boss over several attempts. 1700 healing should be enough, but it will be very tough if your tanks are not in full epics or very close to it. Dps needs to be able to get him down before you run out of mana as well, as you should be continuously casting the whole fight; the only time you should not be casting a heal is when you are silenced or perhaps to recast a totem/watershield.
Edited, Mar 25th 2008 7:22am by Aronisith
I spam rank 8-10 HW on whichever tank has agro. During the switch, I will cast a chain heal or two to heal up both tanks. Occasionally I may throw a max rank HW on one of the tanks if they begin to get too low, or after a silence. It is important to continuously spam heals to ensure the tanks hp stays high enough for them to survive a couple seconds during the silences. I let the other healers heal any ranged who take damage (usually a druid who can keep hots on the MT while tossing some hots on the ranged). Alternatively, you could keep healing stream totem down to clean up damage taken by ranged, but I prefer the large mana boost from mana spring instead. Chain heal can clean up any damage mele takes. Chain heal isn't too useful in this fight though because A.) It is mostly the tanks taking damage and B.) All ranged should be spread out to minimize the number of people who take damage during the charge; thus chain heal would be inefficient to heal these people who are spread out.
The other posters were correct in that this is a gear check for the tanks. I've been in ZA with slightly undergeared tanks and could not keep them up on the bear boss over several attempts. 1700 healing should be enough, but it will be very tough if your tanks are not in full epics or very close to it. Dps needs to be able to get him down before you run out of mana as well, as you should be continuously casting the whole fight; the only time you should not be casting a heal is when you are silenced or perhaps to recast a totem/watershield.
Edited, Mar 25th 2008 7:22am by Aronisith
yeah our main tank still needs his T4 helm. it just isn't dropping. Not to mention he has to roll on it. Our guild is still in the everyone roll type looting. Though I feel the main tank should get preference. Or in my case people who've been trying to get the mace/shield from kara for 3 months now :). Hopefully 2.4 badge rewards can make up for lack of drops. Our second tank is really holding us up. As we keep losing tanks. A lot of people don't like being #2. If they aren't #1 they are out. And we also were struggling with a #3 healer for a time. but I think we got that now, we have alot of healers.
Gruul's has been a problem. We just don't have the people. We do have 2 kara groups going, but it has been hell scheduling them. Far too often people are just not on during the scheduled times. I can't imagine trying to schedule a 25 man.
I'll try to be patient and hope my guild can get some progression. We aren't a serious raiding server, and getting into the serious raiding guilds is next to impossible. They run with the same 25 people over and over and don't accept anyone else in their guilds.
Gruul's has been a problem. We just don't have the people. We do have 2 kara groups going, but it has been hell scheduling them. Far too often people are just not on during the scheduled times. I can't imagine trying to schedule a 25 man.
I'll try to be patient and hope my guild can get some progression. We aren't a serious raiding server, and getting into the serious raiding guilds is next to impossible. They run with the same 25 people over and over and don't accept anyone else in their guilds.
we got eagle boss :). yay. he seems easier than bear boss. We're on bear boss now, so maybe our party is geared enough for him too.
got bear boss too. I'm happy. I was actually seriously considering giving up serious end game raiding because of lack of progress. I didn't know if it was me who was failing or what.
Can't say exactly what has improved. Better second tank (bear tank this time) helped alot. And better dps, though we have one bad dps lock in our party and we still rocked.
Edited, Apr 5th 2008 10:02pm by thrashering
got bear boss too. I'm happy. I was actually seriously considering giving up serious end game raiding because of lack of progress. I didn't know if it was me who was failing or what.
Can't say exactly what has improved. Better second tank (bear tank this time) helped alot. And better dps, though we have one bad dps lock in our party and we still rocked.
Edited, Apr 5th 2008 10:02pm by thrashering
I have not done ZA yet, but I know my strengths as a healer.
Generally I too am stuck main healing the tank, and Im not the best at it.
Its mostly because of the long cast times.
I try and tell the group that the pally/priest/druid should be the one healing the tank and I should be healing the raid, but they want me to do to it because my +heal is the highest.
Quite frankly that stat means very little to a shaman in the sense that it doesnt mean you can heal better than another person. It just helps the heal that you manage to land.
Every single time I heal, i constantly have the tank screaming, "tank needs heals". I want to scream, YES I KNOW, im in the middle of casting one.
Any raid that expects a shaman to keep a tank topped off is asking for a wipe because it will drain your mana too quickly.
You should be suggesting raid healing to your guild, because it is the biggest strength to shammie heals, plus as mentioned above, i feel we are limited to main tank healing.
Generally I too am stuck main healing the tank, and Im not the best at it.
Its mostly because of the long cast times.
I try and tell the group that the pally/priest/druid should be the one healing the tank and I should be healing the raid, but they want me to do to it because my +heal is the highest.
Quite frankly that stat means very little to a shaman in the sense that it doesnt mean you can heal better than another person. It just helps the heal that you manage to land.
Every single time I heal, i constantly have the tank screaming, "tank needs heals". I want to scream, YES I KNOW, im in the middle of casting one.
Any raid that expects a shaman to keep a tank topped off is asking for a wipe because it will drain your mana too quickly.
You should be suggesting raid healing to your guild, because it is the biggest strength to shammie heals, plus as mentioned above, i feel we are limited to main tank healing.
Quote:
I have not done ZA yet, but I know my strengths as a healer.
Generally I too am stuck main healing the tank, and Im not the best at it.
Its mostly because of the long cast times.
I try and tell the group that the pally/priest/druid should be the one healing the tank and I should be healing the raid, but they want me to do to it because my +heal is the highest.
Quite frankly that stat means very little to a shaman in the sense that it doesnt mean you can heal better than another person. It just helps the heal that you manage to land.
Every single time I heal, i constantly have the tank screaming, "tank needs heals". I want to scream, YES I KNOW, im in the middle of casting one.
Any raid that expects a shaman to keep a tank topped off is asking for a wipe because it will drain your mana too quickly.
You should be suggesting raid healing to your guild, because it is the biggest strength to shammie heals, plus as mentioned above, i feel we are limited to main tank healing.
Generally I too am stuck main healing the tank, and Im not the best at it.
Its mostly because of the long cast times.
I try and tell the group that the pally/priest/druid should be the one healing the tank and I should be healing the raid, but they want me to do to it because my +heal is the highest.
Quite frankly that stat means very little to a shaman in the sense that it doesnt mean you can heal better than another person. It just helps the heal that you manage to land.
Every single time I heal, i constantly have the tank screaming, "tank needs heals". I want to scream, YES I KNOW, im in the middle of casting one.
Any raid that expects a shaman to keep a tank topped off is asking for a wipe because it will drain your mana too quickly.
You should be suggesting raid healing to your guild, because it is the biggest strength to shammie heals, plus as mentioned above, i feel we are limited to main tank healing.
Adding to my previous post:
I ran ZA for the first time this weekend, we attempted the Bear boss only.
We had three healers:
Druid: 1500+healing
Shaman (Me): 1500+healing
Paladin: 1700+healing
I thought we did pretty well, we didnt down the boss, our tactics are being improved through learning of course.
Basically on that fight every healer has too be on the tank and heal full time, and you should not be healing anyone else in the raid, they should bandage.
Wow is that tough when he switches to bear, he hits hard, and with the bleed affect and silence right in the middle I swear its enough to make anyone scream. :) We would have had em, if our dps was just a little stronger, we didnt have our normal dps and had to take some alternates which really hindered us on the fight. This weekend maybe some loot. :)
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