hey guys, been 70 for a bit know and got some pretty nice tanking gear. i go above the 12k health/armor for kara, and my block, parry and dodge are all over 17.5% which block being the highest (forget exactly wat). anyway, the first time i attempted to tank prince with my guild my defense was at 503 i believe, but during phase 2 he beet the **** outta me(excuse my language :P)
im pretty sure 490 defense is uncrittable, but prince was crushing me for like 4k and it ended up with a wipe. last night we finally downed him and my defense was at 513. so basically i wanna know if 510 is uncrushable or wat becuz ive heard a lot of different says and dont really know wat defense rating i want to meet.
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uncrittable and uncrushableFollow
Uncrushable is 102.4% combined dodge/parry/block with shield block up.
The problem with prince in phase 2 is he swings so fast he burns your shield block charges before you can cast it again.
When he starts parrying your attacks it gets even worse.
You really shouldn't have any raid members taking damage during phase 2 so all 3 healers should be able to focus on spamming heals on you and keeping you up.
Keeping the tank alive in the prince fight isn't the biggest problem, it's unlucky infernal placement and running out of places for your ranged DPS and healers to stand.
The problem with prince in phase 2 is he swings so fast he burns your shield block charges before you can cast it again.
When he starts parrying your attacks it gets even worse.
You really shouldn't have any raid members taking damage during phase 2 so all 3 healers should be able to focus on spamming heals on you and keeping you up.
Keeping the tank alive in the prince fight isn't the biggest problem, it's unlucky infernal placement and running out of places for your ranged DPS and healers to stand.
Yes, 490 Defense Skill is uncrittability. Make sure you haven't confused Rating with Skill though.
No, 510 Defense Skill is not uncrushability.
As for uncrushability, it isn't really determined by defense alone, since you'd need over 700 defense skill to be uncrushable from only defense. Crushing Blows are pushed off the combat table by misses, dodges, parries and blocks. You have a 5% base of each of those, but in raid gear it tends to be a lot higher.
Anyway, you need 100% avoidance and block to be uncrushable off the bat. However, since Shield Block gives you 75% extra chance to block while it's up, you only need 25% (pretty easy to get, since you've got 20% from your base stats, and 5% from Deflection) if you can manage to keep that up all the time.
It's rather hard to tell you how to achieve passive uncrushability due to lack of armoury link...
No, 510 Defense Skill is not uncrushability.
As for uncrushability, it isn't really determined by defense alone, since you'd need over 700 defense skill to be uncrushable from only defense. Crushing Blows are pushed off the combat table by misses, dodges, parries and blocks. You have a 5% base of each of those, but in raid gear it tends to be a lot higher.
Anyway, you need 100% avoidance and block to be uncrushable off the bat. However, since Shield Block gives you 75% extra chance to block while it's up, you only need 25% (pretty easy to get, since you've got 20% from your base stats, and 5% from Deflection) if you can manage to keep that up all the time.
It's rather hard to tell you how to achieve passive uncrushability due to lack of armoury link...
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Laughing+Skull&n=Kungen
thats my armory, and we did try nightbane and he hit me hard once or twice too, so any advice to help wood be great
thats my armory, and we did try nightbane and he hit me hard once or twice too, so any advice to help wood be great
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Laughing+Skull&n=Kungen
woops double post
Edited, Mar 14th 2008 11:02pm by jschach
woops double post
Edited, Mar 14th 2008 11:02pm by jschach
Aah, named after the great tank on Magtheridon. You're not Swedish though... nevermind.
First off, your build could use some tweaking. You don't need Iron Will or Anger Management. Points much better spent in Cruelty or even Imp. HS. Prot tree looks fine. You don't need 5/5 in Anticipation though, since you only ever need 490 defense skill (more after that is just a bonus, stam is regularly better). Consider pulling points out of that and Imp. Shield Wall and put into Imp. Defensive Stance, or even Tactical Mastery for those pulls you're allowed to charge at.
Basically, something like this. Though, as I said, TM is optional.
You've got 19.25% dodge, 17.83% parry and 18.5% block. You've also got 11.6% chance to be missed. Together, that's 67.18% and is more than enough for uncrushability when Shield Block is up. However, you've got a long way to passive uncrushability (so do all people, which is why they rarely go for just that).
Let's look at the 'real' Kungen's stats.
Dodge: 25.27%
Parry: 21.75%
Block: 32.74%
Miss: 12.52%
All together: 92.28%. So, he only needs 7.72% more Avoidance to hit passive uncrushability.
Now you're thinking 'Oh, but if the best geared tank in the world isn't uncrushable, how can I be?'. Well, just take a look at his gemming. Almost exclusively +stam. You can pretty easily get uncrushable, question is; is it really worth it?
Basically all it does for you is let you eliminate Shield Block from your tanking rotation. In addition to somewhat lower your damage taken in those rare occasions when SB isn't enough to hold off the crushings.
Only advise I can give you on avoiding crushings is learn to keep SB up as much as possible. In some cases the charges just aren't enough, but in all other cases, just keep it up.
First off, your build could use some tweaking. You don't need Iron Will or Anger Management. Points much better spent in Cruelty or even Imp. HS. Prot tree looks fine. You don't need 5/5 in Anticipation though, since you only ever need 490 defense skill (more after that is just a bonus, stam is regularly better). Consider pulling points out of that and Imp. Shield Wall and put into Imp. Defensive Stance, or even Tactical Mastery for those pulls you're allowed to charge at.
Basically, something like this. Though, as I said, TM is optional.
You've got 19.25% dodge, 17.83% parry and 18.5% block. You've also got 11.6% chance to be missed. Together, that's 67.18% and is more than enough for uncrushability when Shield Block is up. However, you've got a long way to passive uncrushability (so do all people, which is why they rarely go for just that).
Let's look at the 'real' Kungen's stats.
Dodge: 25.27%
Parry: 21.75%
Block: 32.74%
Miss: 12.52%
All together: 92.28%. So, he only needs 7.72% more Avoidance to hit passive uncrushability.
Now you're thinking 'Oh, but if the best geared tank in the world isn't uncrushable, how can I be?'. Well, just take a look at his gemming. Almost exclusively +stam. You can pretty easily get uncrushable, question is; is it really worth it?
Basically all it does for you is let you eliminate Shield Block from your tanking rotation. In addition to somewhat lower your damage taken in those rare occasions when SB isn't enough to hold off the crushings.
Only advise I can give you on avoiding crushings is learn to keep SB up as much as possible. In some cases the charges just aren't enough, but in all other cases, just keep it up.
he'll probably get uncrushable from raid buffs, GoA, crit heals, flask, etc...
(the real kungen)
::EDIT::
somethings maybe useful to the post;
You will only get crushing attacks from level 73 mobs.
Prince phase 2, SB up 100%, when he burns through your ticks, you have to rely on mitigation. Stack more stamina. You don't need the SBV for MT from timewardens leggings. Do stack 3x 12 stamina gems in their, and do get the epic leg enchant, that's 37 more sta. You don't need the 4 defense rating in your gun, that's 3 more sta. shoulders... same, 6 more, helm 3 more...
so you could have 49 more sta. all at the loss of 6 agi, 14 def ratin, 3 dod rating, and 6 block value ~~ your not getting much at all from agi, and 14 def rating is ~6 defense skill, 3 dod rating is negligible, your not gonna see an agro drop from having 6 less block value either.
I know ~515 HP (540 your tauren) doesn't sound like much, but it pushes more of those 4-5k possible crushes a little farther away from a KB.
I'm of the school of theory for early raid tanking, building the mitigation pool first, then getting avoidance later. You need that HP pool to be large, your healers need to be able to reactive heal, you don't have 10 healers focused on you at all times, spam healing you. So having the biggest pool and armor possible, without losing a significant portion of your avoidance (say 30% parry + dodge, and 490 defense for early kara; 35% parry + dodge, 490 defense for later kara), will make the reflexive healing easier, and you wont be dieing as often.
I'll leave you with the best advice though;
KEEP 3/3 IMP TCLAP ON PRINCE
KEEP 2+/5 IMP DEMO SHOUT ON PRINCE
Edited, Mar 15th 2008 10:13am by devioususer
(the real kungen)
::EDIT::
somethings maybe useful to the post;
You will only get crushing attacks from level 73 mobs.
Prince phase 2, SB up 100%, when he burns through your ticks, you have to rely on mitigation. Stack more stamina. You don't need the SBV for MT from timewardens leggings. Do stack 3x 12 stamina gems in their, and do get the epic leg enchant, that's 37 more sta. You don't need the 4 defense rating in your gun, that's 3 more sta. shoulders... same, 6 more, helm 3 more...
so you could have 49 more sta. all at the loss of 6 agi, 14 def ratin, 3 dod rating, and 6 block value ~~ your not getting much at all from agi, and 14 def rating is ~6 defense skill, 3 dod rating is negligible, your not gonna see an agro drop from having 6 less block value either.
I know ~515 HP (540 your tauren) doesn't sound like much, but it pushes more of those 4-5k possible crushes a little farther away from a KB.
I'm of the school of theory for early raid tanking, building the mitigation pool first, then getting avoidance later. You need that HP pool to be large, your healers need to be able to reactive heal, you don't have 10 healers focused on you at all times, spam healing you. So having the biggest pool and armor possible, without losing a significant portion of your avoidance (say 30% parry + dodge, and 490 defense for early kara; 35% parry + dodge, 490 defense for later kara), will make the reflexive healing easier, and you wont be dieing as often.
I'll leave you with the best advice though;
KEEP 3/3 IMP TCLAP ON PRINCE
KEEP 2+/5 IMP DEMO SHOUT ON PRINCE
Edited, Mar 15th 2008 10:13am by devioususer
thanks a lot for the those posts, they were extremely helpful. im deff gonna fix up my build a bit and try and fix up my gems too. we were able to down prince but coodnt handle nightbane or netherspite, so were gonna wait forr eset and hopefully get some good gear from first few bosses to give us a better chance.
thanks again
thanks again
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