robertlofthouse: Well there are two problems with opening with Backstab. The first is that you have to position yourself behind the target, which at times will take a while. So that is a waste of time. The second is that you will have to use a dagger weapon, which is usually too fast with a low max damage.
Once you get into the higher levels and get the Cheap Shot opener, it'll help a lot. Sure, this opener isn't doing any initial damage which doesn't help you kill faster, but it does allow you to take less damage. Less damage = less downtime = more efficient leveling.
At your level I would say open up with Garrote or Sinister Strike until you get Cheap Shot. You are still missing many of the neat tricks that you would get later in the levels. That is why you hear many people say the rogue class gets better as you level more.
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Quote:
Lol, this is incredible, the rogue community is supposed to be the nastiest, trickiest, backstabbing, "look after number 1" bunch of misfits around ... I mean, that's what a rogue is, isn't he, except...
Our ire is mostly reserved for idiots who ask questions that are clearly covered in the stickies ("where can i train lockpicking??"), or idiots who make wild and ludicrous statements concerning mechanics ("i raid as 0/0/61 and my dps is awsum!!")
True newbies are always given a little slack. Once you've been around a while, we'll just assume that you've developed thicker skin, and lay in to you accordingly for idiotic posts.
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.
Hey, maybe its just not for you, not everyone likes every class. I've come to the realization I'll probably never play a tank even though my paladin is in outlands now. Despite my desire to get the most sought after role, I just can't do it :P Maybe rogue aint for you.
If you do, the advice about a slow MH weapon is great advice. Unlike a warrior where you charge in and adapt to what happens, plan it all out beforehand. Use sap a lot, sometimes pull with ranged, etc. Don't enter fights you won't win. Rogues best skill is the ability to pick your battles.
You have to enjoy that assassin mentality to level up a rogue. Its not quite as much like that in groups.
Edited, Mar 17th 2008 12:35pm by digitalcraft
If you do, the advice about a slow MH weapon is great advice. Unlike a warrior where you charge in and adapt to what happens, plan it all out beforehand. Use sap a lot, sometimes pull with ranged, etc. Don't enter fights you won't win. Rogues best skill is the ability to pick your battles.
You have to enjoy that assassin mentality to level up a rogue. Its not quite as much like that in groups.
Edited, Mar 17th 2008 12:35pm by digitalcraft
I still love digi's avatar..
Why hasn't anyone mentioned distract? I can't remember what level you get it(30?) but I love it for just sneaking straight through mobs I don't want to mess with. Sure, you can hope they won't turn around as you're walking by, but why take the chance? Throw distract, make them turn, sneak on by. Like everyone has said, as a rogue, YOU pick your fights.
I'm actually re leveling a fresh rogue now... because I've started playing again (currently level 14). My advice for fast/efficient leveling as a rogue:
1. Sword/Mace MH... nice and slow for a high damage range. Keep it that way as you level (obviously this was already mentioned and you have taken the advice).
2. Keep to quests/grinding that involve killing mobs that are your level or a bit lower (IE: yellow or green cons). They will be absolutely trivial to kill with a rogue... and yield the best xp/hour in general. You can generally kill a mob that's at or just below your level by simply dumping your initial energy bar. Most of the "downtime" associated with rogue leveing/grinding should be associated with waiting for your energy bar to re-fill... traveling... or walking from mob to mob... I purchased 2 stacks of food for my rogue when he was level 5... I have used 2 mushrooms... that's it...
3. At low levels (before you get cheap shot) it's actually more efficient to just bow pull or just run into a single mob and start mashing SS than it is to stealth up to them and try to backstab (assuming you are using a dagger... which you shouldn't be if you are concerned about efficiency). Stealth if you have to sap... or you need to bypass content to make a quest easier... When you get cheap shot... using stealth + an actual opener decreases downtime. At low levels, when you don't actually have a worthwhile opener... stealth just slows you down.
4. Single pulls... always... unless you can't help it. This will be the truth from now until you stop playing your rogue. Blade flurry/AR will be great when you get them... they are awesome "oh ****" buttons when you get them... they are awesome for quests... and they are awesome to kill a bunch of mobs at once every few minutes. However, practice the art of single pulls/kills... That is how your rogue is pretty much going to work...
5. Train first aid and keep it up at max level. Rogues will always be one with the bandage... bandages generally = less down time than food. Gouge>bandage can save you from a corpse run if you royally ***** up.
Rogue grinding/leveling (if done correctly) can rival or beat any class in the game. By the mid 30s, a reasonably geared rogue with a combat sword/mace (I'd say fist if they existed at this level) has so many powerful "oh ****" buttons and can front load so much damage that they can grind pretty much straight without eating (and obviously drinking). The key is to use common sense and play up your strengths. Don't grind in places with large packs of mobs... grind in places with a medium mob density that you can single pull at a fast rate without risking multi pulls that often. You get evasion and sprint early... really early... both great "oh ****" buttons...
Note: these tips are really just about being efficient... you can stealth and backstab and gouge and then backstab again to your hearts content if you want to and find it fun (the game is, after all, about fun). However, you will kill 3x faster by just mashing SS and running around. Realize that you could EASILY level a rogue to 70 with just a mouse (with a button bound for SS) and no talent points (well imp SS would be greatly useful) and still get there faster than a few other classes if you were smart about it. I'm not saying that you should try it... but rogues really are that easy to level.
1. Sword/Mace MH... nice and slow for a high damage range. Keep it that way as you level (obviously this was already mentioned and you have taken the advice).
2. Keep to quests/grinding that involve killing mobs that are your level or a bit lower (IE: yellow or green cons). They will be absolutely trivial to kill with a rogue... and yield the best xp/hour in general. You can generally kill a mob that's at or just below your level by simply dumping your initial energy bar. Most of the "downtime" associated with rogue leveing/grinding should be associated with waiting for your energy bar to re-fill... traveling... or walking from mob to mob... I purchased 2 stacks of food for my rogue when he was level 5... I have used 2 mushrooms... that's it...
3. At low levels (before you get cheap shot) it's actually more efficient to just bow pull or just run into a single mob and start mashing SS than it is to stealth up to them and try to backstab (assuming you are using a dagger... which you shouldn't be if you are concerned about efficiency). Stealth if you have to sap... or you need to bypass content to make a quest easier... When you get cheap shot... using stealth + an actual opener decreases downtime. At low levels, when you don't actually have a worthwhile opener... stealth just slows you down.
4. Single pulls... always... unless you can't help it. This will be the truth from now until you stop playing your rogue. Blade flurry/AR will be great when you get them... they are awesome "oh ****" buttons when you get them... they are awesome for quests... and they are awesome to kill a bunch of mobs at once every few minutes. However, practice the art of single pulls/kills... That is how your rogue is pretty much going to work...
5. Train first aid and keep it up at max level. Rogues will always be one with the bandage... bandages generally = less down time than food. Gouge>bandage can save you from a corpse run if you royally ***** up.
Rogue grinding/leveling (if done correctly) can rival or beat any class in the game. By the mid 30s, a reasonably geared rogue with a combat sword/mace (I'd say fist if they existed at this level) has so many powerful "oh ****" buttons and can front load so much damage that they can grind pretty much straight without eating (and obviously drinking). The key is to use common sense and play up your strengths. Don't grind in places with large packs of mobs... grind in places with a medium mob density that you can single pull at a fast rate without risking multi pulls that often. You get evasion and sprint early... really early... both great "oh ****" buttons...
Note: these tips are really just about being efficient... you can stealth and backstab and gouge and then backstab again to your hearts content if you want to and find it fun (the game is, after all, about fun). However, you will kill 3x faster by just mashing SS and running around. Realize that you could EASILY level a rogue to 70 with just a mouse (with a button bound for SS) and no talent points (well imp SS would be greatly useful) and still get there faster than a few other classes if you were smart about it. I'm not saying that you should try it... but rogues really are that easy to level.
I had the hardest time getting used to the mechanics of the class, but trust me if you stick to it the pay off is well worth it. My rogue is only 38 but i'm already in love with the class, just need to get my *** off my druid to work on the rogue more >.<
I just wanted to touch on a few things that I used as little in game goals to help level up.
The first one for me was Sap at 10 just because I love to run around stealthed and Sap humainoids and pick their pockets. Sometimes you even get wallets but of course those poor bastards have nothing in them.
Kick at level 12 for interrupting those PITA casters.
I really wanted to start making Poisons at 20. Just a side note about poisons.. Be careful when using them because if you use one of the ones that is a DOT it seems to act like any other DOT and can wake a mob you have sapped.
22 has Distract which can be nice when stealthing along but for me the one that brings tears of joy to my eyes is Vanish. That ability has allowed to me to kill mobs that would have been a huge pain because of links. Start off stealthed and start kicking the bosses butt and as soon as he is dead or looted (depending on the quest) pop Vanish and get the hell out of dodge. It isn't perfect and there have been times when it didn't stay up as long as I wanted but it usually allows me to get away.
Cheap Shot at 26 is pretty sweet. A nice way to start off a fight if you are stealthed.
Kidney Shot at 30 is really sweet because you don't need to be stealthed to use it.
Blind at 34 is fun.
It's one of those deals where I REALLY wish I could be a fly on the wall at the home of the person you decide to jump.
Something like:
Sap -> Cheap Shot -> SS -> SS -> Kidney Shot -> SS -> SS -> Blind (if need a second) -> Vanish and repeat as needed. This is an example not that it's the correct order of things or that it has the proper number of SS's or whatever.
I can only imagine the profanities floating through the house of the poor person having that done to them. Well actually, I can more than imagine it because lord knows I have had that sort of stuff happen to me. For me and my less than stellar PVP abilities.. Getting jumped by a rogue pretty much meant that I could take a quick bathroom break because I wasn't going anywhere other than to the ground for a dirt nap.
My rogue is 35 atm I think so I guess the next one I will aim for is Mutilate at 40. Not sure how good it really is but it's something to aim for.
The first one for me was Sap at 10 just because I love to run around stealthed and Sap humainoids and pick their pockets. Sometimes you even get wallets but of course those poor bastards have nothing in them.
Kick at level 12 for interrupting those PITA casters.
I really wanted to start making Poisons at 20. Just a side note about poisons.. Be careful when using them because if you use one of the ones that is a DOT it seems to act like any other DOT and can wake a mob you have sapped.
22 has Distract which can be nice when stealthing along but for me the one that brings tears of joy to my eyes is Vanish. That ability has allowed to me to kill mobs that would have been a huge pain because of links. Start off stealthed and start kicking the bosses butt and as soon as he is dead or looted (depending on the quest) pop Vanish and get the hell out of dodge. It isn't perfect and there have been times when it didn't stay up as long as I wanted but it usually allows me to get away.
Cheap Shot at 26 is pretty sweet. A nice way to start off a fight if you are stealthed.
Kidney Shot at 30 is really sweet because you don't need to be stealthed to use it.
Blind at 34 is fun.
It's one of those deals where I REALLY wish I could be a fly on the wall at the home of the person you decide to jump.
Something like:
Sap -> Cheap Shot -> SS -> SS -> Kidney Shot -> SS -> SS -> Blind (if need a second) -> Vanish and repeat as needed. This is an example not that it's the correct order of things or that it has the proper number of SS's or whatever.
I can only imagine the profanities floating through the house of the poor person having that done to them. Well actually, I can more than imagine it because lord knows I have had that sort of stuff happen to me. For me and my less than stellar PVP abilities.. Getting jumped by a rogue pretty much meant that I could take a quick bathroom break because I wasn't going anywhere other than to the ground for a dirt nap.
My rogue is 35 atm I think so I guess the next one I will aim for is Mutilate at 40. Not sure how good it really is but it's something to aim for.
15 posts
Hi everyone,
This is my first post on the board although I've been following the Warrior forum for months, and since I've started a Rogue of course I've been following this forum for all the useful info that the "seniors" dispense regularly.
I leveled my Warrior to 70 about 90 days ago. I'd never played an MMORPG before and had no idea that I would enjoy it. The warrior was painful to level at times both because I was an MMO/WoW complete newbie and because it didn't suit my personality, and I had no idea about the classes. I just started because a friend played and I thought it would be fun to play together (which we didn't much, but I digress).
Long story short, after levelling a warrior to 70 in ~5 months (~20days played I beleive) - I started my Rogue exactly 4 weeks ago, and hit 50 last night (5 days played). I can't express how much more fun and entertaining it is being a Rogue in my opinion. Much like everyone else is alluding to and saying, there is SO much more control with this class. I'm the kind of person that likes to know what I'm getting into (control freak?) and being a rogue has:
1) Saved me from being ganked dozens of times (PvP server and greatly outnumbered)
2) Allowed me to complete quests I could not solo with a warrior because of things like sap, vanish, and the like.
3) Given me the gleeful satisfaction of totally obliterating members of the opposite faction that are around my level (much maniacal laughter on my part)
It's simple things like the fact that if I want to eat, I can do it out of sight. Even to higher level members of the opposing faction, being translucent and having no text above your head screaming "LOOK! GANK ME!" means that most gankers really don't notice you unless they know you're there to begin with, or happen to hit tab.
Purely for the fun factor (I know I could've been more efficient), I specced daggers and went MoD / Imp Ambush as early as I could. At level 30, a lock tried to kill me while I was questing in Dun Modor (big surprize). I simply vanished, and waited to see what his plan was. He just stood facing the compound looking for me, so I snuck up behind him, prepared a **** eating grin, chuckled, and let an ambush rip. It critted of course (man that spec was fun) and before the poor ******* could even realize what the hell happened, that single ambush brought him down to ~ 25%, and we were both level 30. If only I could have seen the look on his face. Needless to say, his teeth were full of dirt in only a handful of seconds, and I almost peed my pants laughing - as that was my first real experience in PvP with the rogue. So, in contrast with my warrior where I would get kited and DoTd to death by a lock, I was almost able to one hit one without him having a clue, and that AFTER he caught me at 50% health questing and figured he had an easy kill.
I love sneaking around and being a dirty SOB. Stealthing to the main target, not fighting through 40 mobs to get the "boss guy" and letting all hell break loose on his ***, looting, and vanishing from sight... MAN that's fun. I know it is slow, but STV was no problem when you're in stealth most of the time - I don't think I ever actually got ganked in STV, maybe once tops. With the warrior I used to actually fear going to STV (remember, the opposite faction outnumbers us big time on our server).
In short, I think being a rogue is truly awesome and it suits my personality to a tee. I'll actually be sad when I hit 70 because levelling is so much fun :P
This is my first post on the board although I've been following the Warrior forum for months, and since I've started a Rogue of course I've been following this forum for all the useful info that the "seniors" dispense regularly.
I leveled my Warrior to 70 about 90 days ago. I'd never played an MMORPG before and had no idea that I would enjoy it. The warrior was painful to level at times both because I was an MMO/WoW complete newbie and because it didn't suit my personality, and I had no idea about the classes. I just started because a friend played and I thought it would be fun to play together (which we didn't much, but I digress).
Long story short, after levelling a warrior to 70 in ~5 months (~20days played I beleive) - I started my Rogue exactly 4 weeks ago, and hit 50 last night (5 days played). I can't express how much more fun and entertaining it is being a Rogue in my opinion. Much like everyone else is alluding to and saying, there is SO much more control with this class. I'm the kind of person that likes to know what I'm getting into (control freak?) and being a rogue has:
1) Saved me from being ganked dozens of times (PvP server and greatly outnumbered)
2) Allowed me to complete quests I could not solo with a warrior because of things like sap, vanish, and the like.
3) Given me the gleeful satisfaction of totally obliterating members of the opposite faction that are around my level (much maniacal laughter on my part)
It's simple things like the fact that if I want to eat, I can do it out of sight. Even to higher level members of the opposing faction, being translucent and having no text above your head screaming "LOOK! GANK ME!" means that most gankers really don't notice you unless they know you're there to begin with, or happen to hit tab.
Purely for the fun factor (I know I could've been more efficient), I specced daggers and went MoD / Imp Ambush as early as I could. At level 30, a lock tried to kill me while I was questing in Dun Modor (big surprize). I simply vanished, and waited to see what his plan was. He just stood facing the compound looking for me, so I snuck up behind him, prepared a **** eating grin, chuckled, and let an ambush rip. It critted of course (man that spec was fun) and before the poor ******* could even realize what the hell happened, that single ambush brought him down to ~ 25%, and we were both level 30. If only I could have seen the look on his face. Needless to say, his teeth were full of dirt in only a handful of seconds, and I almost peed my pants laughing - as that was my first real experience in PvP with the rogue. So, in contrast with my warrior where I would get kited and DoTd to death by a lock, I was almost able to one hit one without him having a clue, and that AFTER he caught me at 50% health questing and figured he had an easy kill.
I love sneaking around and being a dirty SOB. Stealthing to the main target, not fighting through 40 mobs to get the "boss guy" and letting all hell break loose on his ***, looting, and vanishing from sight... MAN that's fun. I know it is slow, but STV was no problem when you're in stealth most of the time - I don't think I ever actually got ganked in STV, maybe once tops. With the warrior I used to actually fear going to STV (remember, the opposite faction outnumbers us big time on our server).
In short, I think being a rogue is truly awesome and it suits my personality to a tee. I'll actually be sad when I hit 70 because levelling is so much fun :P
tabstopper wrote:
Also, just to nitpick, Eviscerate damage doesn't depend on your weapon.
It's not nitpicking, it's incredibly important within the context of rogue dps. Rate up for good info AND being nice. ...though you may be on the wrong boards for such things. ;)
MrTalos wrote:
My rogue is 35 atm I think so I guess the next one I will aim for is Mutilate at 40. Not sure how good it really is but it's something to aim for.
I hate to burst your bubble, but Muti will be at 50. I'm guessing 40 was just a typo/brain flatulism however.
LordMeridus wrote:
I'm actually re leveling a fresh rogue now... because I've started playing again (currently level 14).
Name? That's about where my warrior and mage are.
Yeah, rogues are squishy. Just spec combat and go 1 mob at a time. After 26 and you get cheap shot, its all downhill.
7 posts
If it helps for motivation, I recently got my warlock restored (<3 Blizzard!) and I went to SMV to farm the sunfury people there and saw a Rogue there. I won't say any names, but he was grinding like a freak! He took those mobs down in like....I'd say about 7 seconds, give or take a few seconds while losing only 1% of his hp. I was watching him grind for like 15minutes and his hp never dropped below 93%...wtf?!?!?!?! OP'd!! So I went and e-mailed Blizz to get my Rogue restored and he's currently level 40 :D and I am loving him. + when I started grinding near him and he saw me....well, he wasn't too friendly.
AynLoD wrote:
I hate to burst your bubble, but Muti will be at 50. I'm guessing 40 was just a typo/brain flatulism however.
Well thanks for squashing that goal. Want to disillusion me anymore? Going to tell me there is no Santa or Easter Bunny? lol
I typed that at work and end up looking at the Rogue list of abilities here and it has mutilate as level 40. Now that you mention it, I remember looking at the list and looking at the description in the game at trying to figure out how I was supposed to have 40 points in Assassination at level 40.
1 post
I've played SWG and EQ2 before and after a few weeks I was just bored to tears with the seemingly endless repetition of combat grinding. SWG was the worst for this: encounter enemy, tap buttons 1,2,3 in sequence, repeat. That was how it seemed to me at least.
In principle I found the idea of MMORPGs great because of the permanent and dynamic nature of them, but in practice I found them brutally dull and pointless. But about a month ago I decided to give WoW a go and picked up a rogue. To begin with the gameplay seemed very similar: repetitive grinding (this was probably up to lv18 or so), but I found that buying and selling on the AH (with a little disenchanting thrown in) was actually pretty good fun especially with the Auctioneer plug-in, and something to do in the morning over my breakfast. Because of this I persevered with the leveling of my character.
Then I had a kind of mini-epiphany. I realised that rogue soloing is all about stealth and cunning. With a warrior who can wear heavy armour you can just run at the enemy and take more punishment than them, so you win (that was what I always found dull before). But with a rogue, you can take decent damage, but the only way to wipe out an enemy settlement single handed is to think and be strategic.
So anyway now I logon pick a tower or something that I am going to conquer, buff up, and ambush, sap, garotte (etc) my way to the top of it, then I Roar and Yell "I own this tower" or something stupid. Then I go back to SW and log off. If I die I log off. I need to do the whole thing in one go. That way I am usually on double XP while I fight, so leveling takes half the time, and because I am motivated, concentrating and having fun I level without noticing. Also because I make loads of cash on the AH I always have much better kit than I should have for a noob at my level so I level faster than normal because I can get through the enemy quicker than average. This approach is pretty much grind free for me and I usually level once every 30-45 mins or so of actual fight time which I am happy with.
Anyway I thought I would make this post just to recommend a Rogue character to anyone who had tried other MMORPGs and felt like they were more like shift work than fun, because I have genuinely started enjoying playing this game.
In principle I found the idea of MMORPGs great because of the permanent and dynamic nature of them, but in practice I found them brutally dull and pointless. But about a month ago I decided to give WoW a go and picked up a rogue. To begin with the gameplay seemed very similar: repetitive grinding (this was probably up to lv18 or so), but I found that buying and selling on the AH (with a little disenchanting thrown in) was actually pretty good fun especially with the Auctioneer plug-in, and something to do in the morning over my breakfast. Because of this I persevered with the leveling of my character.
Then I had a kind of mini-epiphany. I realised that rogue soloing is all about stealth and cunning. With a warrior who can wear heavy armour you can just run at the enemy and take more punishment than them, so you win (that was what I always found dull before). But with a rogue, you can take decent damage, but the only way to wipe out an enemy settlement single handed is to think and be strategic.
So anyway now I logon pick a tower or something that I am going to conquer, buff up, and ambush, sap, garotte (etc) my way to the top of it, then I Roar and Yell "I own this tower" or something stupid. Then I go back to SW and log off. If I die I log off. I need to do the whole thing in one go. That way I am usually on double XP while I fight, so leveling takes half the time, and because I am motivated, concentrating and having fun I level without noticing. Also because I make loads of cash on the AH I always have much better kit than I should have for a noob at my level so I level faster than normal because I can get through the enemy quicker than average. This approach is pretty much grind free for me and I usually level once every 30-45 mins or so of actual fight time which I am happy with.
Anyway I thought I would make this post just to recommend a Rogue character to anyone who had tried other MMORPGs and felt like they were more like shift work than fun, because I have genuinely started enjoying playing this game.
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