Does an unresisted Charge still produce a fair amount of hate at level 70? I ended respecing at 70 to 42/19/0.. I do a noticeable amount more damage now but it has sort of knocked hate with my pets out of whack. Ravager and Kitty just take to long to build up hate so I end up starting with a Scorpid Sting and then turning and facing the other way until they can build up some decent hate. I wouldn't mind it to much if my pet wasn't sometimes taking a whole lot of damage and me then having to cast mend pet early in the fight.
I know that it used to be that an unresisted Charge would generate more hate in the first move than other pets do over the course of 10-15 seconds. I do FD sometimes but I can't help but notice that more mobs are beginning to not fall for that. Even seeing more resisted traps. IDK if I am fighting things that just have a natural resistance to traps now that I didn't fight as much leveling up or if it's just what to expect at 70.
Guess I am just trying to adjust to some of the changes that have arrived with 70.
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I still love my boar on my 70 dwarf hunter. There is about 3.1K of aggro built up on the charge according to Omen and it takes me almost the entire kill running the auto/steady interleave I use for farming to get above my pet on the list. Aggro is not an issue after the initial charge unless I do the max DPS interleave. It makes me complacent. Just the dance of balanced aggro and lowered DPS when I don't get the charge (e.g. use Intimidate to build up quick aggro) means I wouldn't go to any other pet unless needed for a raid or instance. I have pulled and gotten in several shots + steady and the charge still stops the mob in their tracks and has the boar with aggro. Soooo nice.
I have done a cat and it just didn't keep aggro with even a slower DPS rate.
Added: I did a duo with a 69 hunter with a cat doing some elites. My pet after the charge was first on the list until it died. Then I was the target until I FDed. Then the other hunter became the target. The cat was usually last on the list.
Edited, Mar 11th 2008 1:21pm by dethgin
I have done a cat and it just didn't keep aggro with even a slower DPS rate.
Added: I did a duo with a 69 hunter with a cat doing some elites. My pet after the charge was first on the list until it died. Then I was the target until I FDed. Then the other hunter became the target. The cat was usually last on the list.
Edited, Mar 11th 2008 1:21pm by dethgin
Boar's charge creates a tremendous amount of aggro on the first mob engaged. You will be hard pressed to take aggro from a boar that successfully charges. If you are taking on mobs one at a time, a boar will serve you well, as long as you wait for the charge cooldown.
Where boars begin to fall behind cats and ravagers is the subsequent mobs engaged. I commonly pull 2 to 4 mobs at a time, have the pet gather and tank them, and shoot from afar. I noted that the boar developed significantly slower threat than a cat or ravager on any mob that had not been charged. I had to wait for an appropriate level of threat to develop before engaging. The boar is tougher, and can handle the wait. It is mainly a matter of playstyle.
One complaint about using a boar at 70 is the time it took to level one from 60 to 70. The level 60 boar is not pretty by any measure. If you want a more attractive boar, you will be in for a long grind.
Another thing about boars is their tendancy to charge trapped mobs. This is beyond annoying in an instance. Use a DPS pet for instances.
Shelor007
Where boars begin to fall behind cats and ravagers is the subsequent mobs engaged. I commonly pull 2 to 4 mobs at a time, have the pet gather and tank them, and shoot from afar. I noted that the boar developed significantly slower threat than a cat or ravager on any mob that had not been charged. I had to wait for an appropriate level of threat to develop before engaging. The boar is tougher, and can handle the wait. It is mainly a matter of playstyle.
One complaint about using a boar at 70 is the time it took to level one from 60 to 70. The level 60 boar is not pretty by any measure. If you want a more attractive boar, you will be in for a long grind.
Another thing about boars is their tendancy to charge trapped mobs. This is beyond annoying in an instance. Use a DPS pet for instances.
Shelor007
I believe that a resisted charge doesn't generate aggro, immobilize or buffs your pet's next hit. I'm not positive though.
Charge is really just one ability... so you shouldn't be having such a huge difference with other pets if they're using growl.
I also haven't heard of such frequent FD resists... check if your imagining things, if not; contact a GM.
Charge is really just one ability... so you shouldn't be having such a huge difference with other pets if they're using growl.
I also haven't heard of such frequent FD resists... check if your imagining things, if not; contact a GM.
6 fd resists in a row on tidewalker yesterday, other hunter had 4. I dont know what the hell is up with fd lately, but i would say its maybe 60/40 for me.
>> Charge is really just one ability
But it is an amazingly good ability. The 3K of aggro means that I can do several hundred more DPS than my pet for quite a while before even worrying about aggro or growl. Growl just keeps the pet up with you periodically. With just growl and pet DPS have to keep my DPS pretty much close to the rate that the pet generates. Growl just doesn't cut it same as taunt doesn't work if it and DPS was the only aggro tool for warriors.
I went through a lot of levels as an NE hunter with a cat and there is a big difference in PvE aggro between normal pets (wolf/bear/cat/turtle) and the charge from the boar. Enough I hope that blizzard doesn't nerf it.
But it is an amazingly good ability. The 3K of aggro means that I can do several hundred more DPS than my pet for quite a while before even worrying about aggro or growl. Growl just keeps the pet up with you periodically. With just growl and pet DPS have to keep my DPS pretty much close to the rate that the pet generates. Growl just doesn't cut it same as taunt doesn't work if it and DPS was the only aggro tool for warriors.
I went through a lot of levels as an NE hunter with a cat and there is a big difference in PvE aggro between normal pets (wolf/bear/cat/turtle) and the charge from the boar. Enough I hope that blizzard doesn't nerf it.
Scholar
32 posts
An unresisted Charge does not generate the hate.
Although it may be annoying at times, I still see the boar as the top hate generator. Most of the time, it goes unresisted. The times it doesn't, gore and growl will still keep it at the top of the hate list. It takes some practice to see which combination of skills you can use without overcoming the boar.
I've always used a boar. It just has too many positives to be ignored just because Charge is resisted at times.
Although it may be annoying at times, I still see the boar as the top hate generator. Most of the time, it goes unresisted. The times it doesn't, gore and growl will still keep it at the top of the hate list. It takes some practice to see which combination of skills you can use without overcoming the boar.
I've always used a boar. It just has too many positives to be ignored just because Charge is resisted at times.
Swisherer wrote:
An unresisted Charge does not generate the hate.
...
What?
Swisherer wrote:
I've always used a boar. It just has too many positives to be ignored just because Charge is resisted at times.
I've used Boars, Cats, Owls and Ravagers for leveling. I found Owls most to my liking.
Eh? I can consistently pull aggro off my boar about half way through a fight if I unload everything on the target from the start. My current formula is to let autoshot hit twice before adding anything else. That allows me to only rarely pull aggro and then usually only at the end of the fight.
I like my carrion bird best, 'cept for the flapping wings.
Edited, Mar 12th 2008 12:33pm by ItsaGaAs
I like my carrion bird best, 'cept for the flapping wings.
Edited, Mar 12th 2008 12:33pm by ItsaGaAs
Scholar
32 posts
Pardon me. I meant to say a resisted charge does not generate the hate.
shelordoubleoseven wrote:
One complaint about using a boar at 70 is the time it took to level one from 60 to 70. The level 60 boar is not pretty by any measure. If you want a more attractive boar, you will be in for a long grind.
I just couldn't get one of the level 60 ones.. Just don't like the look of it so I ended up with a level 49 ashmane boar. It's up to 56 now. It's pretty slow leveling it up and I mostly end up having to fight casters to have relatively quick kills. Man I wish they would alter the way pets level up but I guess that's a complaint for a different thread.
Utarius wrote:
Charge is really just one ability... so you shouldn't be having such a huge difference with other pets if they're using growl.
I originally couldn't imagine that one type of pet would have an ability that would just completely wipe the floor with all others as far as initial hate generation goes but I'll be damned if a boar and it's charge doesn't when it's unresisted. I definitely don't want them to nerf it. It's the way it should be. Other pets should be buffed to be able to at least come close to it.
Utarius wrote:
I also haven't heard of such frequent FD resists... check if your imagining things, if not; contact a GM.
montaghar wrote:
6 fd resists in a row on tidewalker yesterday, other hunter had 4. I dont know what the hell is up with fd lately, but i would say its maybe 60/40 for me.
I died over the weekend trying to do a strat to solo some elite in nagrand where you put your pet one place and you stand at the bottom and make the elite run back and forth and you FD whenever he gets to you. 1st FD worked 2nd FD failed and I died. Thought maybe it was because he was an elite. I died twice yesterday farming random level 70 mobs due to them continuing to beat on me after I FDed. The day before yesterday, I was fighting some of those types of mobs the consortium are to get drops to turn in for rep and they kept attacking me after I FDed. That's only deaths, that's not counting the times recently when I would FD early in a fight and it still didn't clear my hate and I got back up and kept fighting or ran away. It just seems at 70 that FD is a joke. It's getting to the point where I am better off just making a run for it and hoping it doesn't get a killing blow as I run.
On both subjects. I went into the Nethermine in Shadowmoon to pick up the level 70 ravager. FD worked about 40% of the time (3 of 8 times) against the lvl 70 entry mobs you have to rush by. So, I will just assume the 40% success is about normal at 70. Still, I did get the ravager tamed (5 deaths, 1 due to my stupidity).
I tried the ravager on the same 68/69 mobs that I have been farming with my boar. I had to massively scale back my DPS to pretty much auto shot plus a very occasional steady shot. It got a little better when frenzy kicked in but not much. So, the ravager goes into the stable for raids/instances which are DPS only situations.
ItsaGaAs said:
>> I can consistently pull aggro off my boar about half way through a fight if I unload everything
So can I if I unload. But with a auto/steady interleave you can manage to consistently kill quickly with very efficient mana usage without ever pulling aggro. You can not do that interleave with the ravager at all. I was doing around 2 hundred DPS less when using the ravager and had to watch aggro warnings constantly. If i "unload" with the ravager I am the tank from the first instant.
Interesting on the owl/carrion issue. I will have to go to nagrand to pick up one of the carrion birds (67 i think) with screech and see what the aggro generation is via Omen.
I tried the ravager on the same 68/69 mobs that I have been farming with my boar. I had to massively scale back my DPS to pretty much auto shot plus a very occasional steady shot. It got a little better when frenzy kicked in but not much. So, the ravager goes into the stable for raids/instances which are DPS only situations.
ItsaGaAs said:
>> I can consistently pull aggro off my boar about half way through a fight if I unload everything
So can I if I unload. But with a auto/steady interleave you can manage to consistently kill quickly with very efficient mana usage without ever pulling aggro. You can not do that interleave with the ravager at all. I was doing around 2 hundred DPS less when using the ravager and had to watch aggro warnings constantly. If i "unload" with the ravager I am the tank from the first instant.
Interesting on the owl/carrion issue. I will have to go to nagrand to pick up one of the carrion birds (67 i think) with screech and see what the aggro generation is via Omen.
My apologies. I meant I can consistently pull aggro off my boar with a typical BM autoshot / steady shot / kill command macro if I start with that right after he finishes charging. If I let autoshot hit twice immediately after charge then the macro only rarely pulls aggro at the end of the fight.
I'm not arguing that a ravager starts with less threat. I was merely pointing out that a boar's charge is not the 'end all' solution to managing one's threat level. I can still pull aggro off my boar if I'm not careful, though it is less of a problem than with other pets.
Edited, Mar 13th 2008 3:41pm by ItsaGaAs
I'm not arguing that a ravager starts with less threat. I was merely pointing out that a boar's charge is not the 'end all' solution to managing one's threat level. I can still pull aggro off my boar if I'm not careful, though it is less of a problem than with other pets.
Edited, Mar 13th 2008 3:41pm by ItsaGaAs
I'm leveling my old RFC boar from 49-70 now (painful still). I missed him. Glad I kept him in the bank.
I suggest leveling that boar on the ogre casters on Warmaul Hill in northwestern Nagrand. They stay at range. You won't have to do any hunter-tanking if you avoid the ogre warriors wandering there. You'll also get Kurenai rep, beads for Kurenai or Consortium rep plus dust for Halaa tokens.
Edited, Mar 13th 2008 3:22pm by ItsaGaAs
Edited, Mar 13th 2008 3:22pm by ItsaGaAs
My Trusty Belly Grub dinged 70 the day i dinged.... :P
ItsaGaAs wrote:
I suggest leveling that boar on the ogre casters on Warmaul Hill in northwestern Nagrand. They stay at range. You won't have to do any hunter-tanking if you avoid the ogre warriors wandering there. You'll also get Kurenai rep, beads for Kurenai or Consortium rep plus dust for Halaa tokens.
Nice idea! I'll have to give it a try. I went 49-54 at firewing point on the mostly warlock casters there. I am exalted with Mag but not even revered with consortium on my hunter so that will be good. I actually dont mind fighting some warroirs petless ocasionally because its great practice for PvP. I recently switched from BM to MM and I am finding I can kite the crap out of just about anything with Concussive + Scatter + Clever traps. :D
I tamed Broken Tooth tonight. Damn he was awesome back in the day.
Edited, Mar 14th 2008 3:53am by Ieatrocks
Edited, Mar 14th 2008 3:53am by Ieatrocks
I walked all the way to Mulgore from Dun Morogh to get 'The Rake' back when. I was doing fine until passing through Dustwallow Marsh. The crocks and stealthed spiders killed me five times.
I also picked up 'Broken Tooth' as soon as I could. It took about two weeks of periodic checking before I found him. That's when I retired 'The Rake'. If I'd known they were going to normalize all the pets, I might have kept 'The Rake'. I liked his mane.
I also picked up 'Broken Tooth' as soon as I could. It took about two weeks of periodic checking before I found him. That's when I retired 'The Rake'. If I'd known they were going to normalize all the pets, I might have kept 'The Rake'. I liked his mane.
ItsaGaAs wrote:
I suggest leveling that boar on the ogre casters on Warmaul Hill in northwestern Nagrand. They stay at range. You won't have to do any hunter-tanking if you avoid the ogre warriors wandering there. You'll also get Kurenai rep, beads for Kurenai or Consortium rep plus dust for Halaa tokens.
Thanks. I want to get some Consortium rep so I will give this a try as well. I will just add to watch out because there is some... well idk what kind of mob he is but it's some 64ish elite. Not that bad to fight if you have a leveled pet with you but I would worry about it agroing your pet from a great distance. He's almost a pushover and you may even be able to melee him down without breaking a sweat but when I am grinding mobs for my pet's exp I sort of zone out from the boredom so he might be able to get in some good hits on my pet before I would realize what was going on.
Just figured I would remind those who haven't been over there in a while.
You're thinking of the Mountain Gronn. Yeah, watch out for those. ;)
ItsaGaAs wrote:
You're thinking of the Mountain Gronn. Yeah, watch out for those. ;)
Yeah that was it.. mountain gronn. It is kind of funny to watch them fight the ogres in the area. I used to let the ogres take a chunk of it's health and then attack. I think I first ran into it at like 64 and it hit my pet really hard and he still does hit relatively hard but it's just so much easier to blow him away.
I'll turn off my pet's growl and send him in right after the ogre gets aggro and start the DPS at a restrained level. I'll also hit the gronn with a wyvern sting to nerf his swings a bit. Anything to keep that ogre-tank up a bit longer before my pet has to take over. ;)
Give the ogre a love-tap once before he dies so your pet get's the XP benefit of that kill too.
Edited, Mar 14th 2008 12:04pm by ItsaGaAs
Give the ogre a love-tap once before he dies so your pet get's the XP benefit of that kill too.
Edited, Mar 14th 2008 12:04pm by ItsaGaAs
ItsaGaAs wrote:
I'll also hit the gronn with a wyvern sting to nerf his swings a bit.
You see, I know you mean Scorpid Sting.
Oh, and unless you've got a pet with Cower I don't see the ogre holding aggro for very long. They're weaksauce.
Cower is awesome, although highly situational. It's very nice when you're kiting stuff to death, and need the pet to DPS as well. I used to pull that one off on King Muckla (before they nerfed him). Afterwards I could brag about taking down a level 55 elite at level 48.
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