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Sometimes I think that if I told you the sky was blue you would argue with me. Comparing Frost Shock to Cone of Cold is beyond retarded. Every single one of the Mages' Frost spells snares, and lest we forget, they have a root in Frost Nova. Oh, yeah, and Polymorph. What the hell kind of argument is this? You pick one of their snares, arguably the worst one even though it's still not any worse than Frost Shock (shorter range, but AoE), and then pitch an argument with it? Honestly, man... just... What the hell?


Earthbind is meant to serve as a preventative measure, however poor it may be due to the fact that it can be destroyed by a level one opponent. Frost Shock is meant to be our all-purpose snare, and, unfortunately, it's our only real distance-controlling tool at the moment. Giving Frost Shock more range would be situationally helpfull, but unless they want to increase the slow speed to like 80% or something, it's not going to solve anything.

Look at some other classes:

Hunters: Ranged and melee snare, AoE snare (potential root with SV talents), incapacitate (MM), sleep (SV), CC immunity (BM), stun (BM), CC, fear (beasts), etc.

Mage: Multiple ranged and AoE snares (all of which can potentially root), AoE root, complete immunity and debuff wipe, CC, silence, damage absorb, teleport, etc.

Warrior: long-distance-closer with stun, AoE fear, undispellable snare (potential root with talents), interrupt, fear immunity, stuns galore, regenerates rage and health when impaired, etc.

Rogue: dispellable but rapidly applicable snare, teleport (ShS), high speed increase (breaks movement impairing effects with talents), stuns galore, incapacitate, CC, interrupt, ranged interrupt with arena gear, etc.

Druids: CC, long-distance-closer with stun, stun, incapacitate, root, sleep (beasts), speed increase, movement-impairing-effect-breaker, etc.

And then... there's Shaman. What do Shaman get? Our short-range AoE snare dispellable by a level 1, one spell absorb every 15 seconds (potentially 1/5 more often with gear and talents), and one mid-ranged snare that shares a cooldown with our mid-ranged interrupt. Oh, and Ghost Wolf, which, though instant with talents, still doesn't break any movement-impairing effects, is dispellable, and leaves us completely harmless and defenseless. And notice how I left "etc." on those classes up there? Yeah, there is no "etc." for Shaman. That is it. All of it.

I could go on, but I hope you've got the point by now. It's not just that our snares suck. Compared to all the other classes, we are just seriously lacking in control tools in general, and the ones we do have are so lackluster that for us, 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 0.


Remind me to take you even less seriously in the future if by some mistake I happen to pay attention to anything you say.

Edited, Mar 21st 2008 5:41pm by Gaudion

Conversely, as someone who plays a woefully underpowered class, arguable the worst at nearly all aspects of PvP, I get pissed off when people take one of our abilities, compare it to one ability in another class, and act like all is well, balanced, and peachy.

Don't show me your weasel quotes trying to prove that it's not what you're saying. If it wasn't, you wouldn't bother making these retarded arguments in the first place. Oh, right, I forgot... argu-oholic... No one even cares that your get-out clause is tacked onto the end when the argument is so completely stupid and non-applicable that there's no point in making it in the first place.

Frost Shock was "overpowered" back in the day when, again, health totals were 1/3 of what they are now and Shock damage was just another piece of the pie that allowed Shaman to decimate people in a couple of seconds. Not that difficult to wrap your head around. Well, for most people, anyways... As for why it sucks now, just go look back at RPZip's list and mine; it's covered. In fine detail.

Edited, Mar 21st 2008 11:29pm by Gaudion

Warriors are my enemy as elemental, and my prey as resto. With the near 100% spell knocback reduction (70% from talent 30% from ES) they only thing they can do is spam MS on me.

Posting in a legendary thread.

Threads like this remind me why I hang out on Allakhazam instead of the O-boards... there are trolls and idiots on both, but at least here there are relatively well-aimed intellectual guns firing back, and occasionally a 'winner' is declared.

Since Aurelius is almost certainly reading this thread even though he claims to have withdrawn (something that is probably burning corrosively within him even now), I may as well give it a crack.

This thread is a classic example of how an argument in spirit is rapidly corrupted into an argument in fact. The spirit of the argument is that Shamans need some form of PvP buffing, but this degenerated into silly penny-pinching "I said no u said but he said" playground nonsense. The facts speak loudly for themselves; if Shamans were good (or even competetive) in Arena there'd be more of them; ergo, something has to change. The reverse is also true for Druids; look at how many of them are in the 2v2 high brackets; it's almost comical.

This thread reminds me of a thread years ago when I said totems should have a great enough range to affect a raidgroup... I recall some crazy Alliance Hunter telling me that was a terrible idea, and the argument eventually degenerated into him saying he thought I meant an ALLIANCE raid group; ie, he eventually claimed (absurdly) that I was proposing EARTHBIND be buffed to affect AN ENTIRE BG RAIDGROUP. The spirit of the debate is lost, and all that remains are entrails to be fought over.

In response to the "Why would Shamans get focus-fired in Arena", the answer is pretty simple; totems. Totems are actually pretty powerful situational buffs if the Shaman can use them competently, and as a result they cannot be tolerated. The effort involved in killing the Shaman is FAR less than the effort involved overcoming totem buffs (grounding and Windfury come to mind), so its simpler just to spank the Shaman down. Any raidhealer will tell you that a class with more health is easier to heal than a class with little, so when Shamans (naturally low-HP) get spanked it is that much harder to save them. Frankly at the moment (I dont actually arena on my Shaman; lets get that out of the way) Id reckon Shamans should just stack all stamina and resilience and stay out of the fucking way, but then youre not helping the group much.

Anyway, best let this one die so as not to prolong Aurelius' fifteen minutes of infamy.

~sins