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Mages will get new abilities in the expansion too, believe it or not. In fact, we intend to tone down how strong of a counter warlocks are to mages through the wotlk spells/talents.
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Thank God, I hate fight locks...
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Thank God, I hate fight locks...
Quote:
I hate fight locks...
Now that i'm done with that, i would much rather a buff against hunters (like their freakin deadzone back!!) because me personally dont have much of a problem with locks if they are only slightly better geared than me preferably not like 500 resilience, more around 350-400, if they have over 450 im screwed, and that is that.
The trick with locks is to rush em and hope they death coil you. If you do get death coiled immediately don't IB just take the damage, it will pay off, save it for later when your all dotted up/they get a fear off, that way it will do more than a death coil when you both have close to full health. After that they cant do too much and remember to keep them out of their shadow school as much as possible, and remember that fear has DR and after 2 it will only last a few seconds and soon you'll be immune.
Looking up and that it seems i went overboard but hell i've got nothing better to do.
what a crock of ****.
warlocks aren't the problem in pvp anymore. hunter mechanics and rogue iwin buttons are.
warlocks aren't the problem in pvp anymore. hunter mechanics and rogue iwin buttons are.
I dont really find equally geared warlocks that hard to beat, but the problems i have mostly is with rogues. I just dont know what to do after i have crippling poison on me and them pounding on my back.
you curl up and die.
shadow step + stun locks = blink is @#%^ing useless. not to mention their snare poison is better than any frost mage's chill effect excepting a full talented blizzard being 5% more (how very useful it would be to channel blizzard with a rogue breathing down your neck). kick and cloak of shadows alone are just outrageously powerful against spellcasters, though more so against mages than any other but moonkin (and who really cares about them?).
they could double the range on blink and it would still be useless: spells have a relatively tiny range compared characters' movement rates, snare poison, deadly throw, shadow step and sprint mean it's impossible to outrun a rogue even if you did start with a 40yard lead. so far, every class that has an identifiable weakness has been given enough tools to make them quite overpowered in spite of it. except mages. warriors and rogues complained about being kited, they were given kite immunity. warlocks complained they were "squishy", and now can achieve positively staggering health pools. hunters complained their pets were useless, and now they can become gods with sprinkles of ranged mortal strike in between. it's really a great time for game designers to watch and understand what "balance" means, and how best to not do it.
spell pushback mechanics have yet to be addressed in terms of pvp, and in fact i don't believe there would be a way to fix it without breaking pve as well. possibly allow mages to damage sheeped targets... in the manner of fear. as warlocks and priests and warriors have been doing since forever. but it's unlikely (absolutely not gonna happen) that wotlk is gonna change how pathetic mages are in pvp. rogue pvp utility needs a dramatic nerf (the subtraction of one or possibly two key abilities completely might be enough), and BM hunters need a major reigning in as well.
Edited, Mar 14th 2008 12:56am by LaFey
shadow step + stun locks = blink is @#%^ing useless. not to mention their snare poison is better than any frost mage's chill effect excepting a full talented blizzard being 5% more (how very useful it would be to channel blizzard with a rogue breathing down your neck). kick and cloak of shadows alone are just outrageously powerful against spellcasters, though more so against mages than any other but moonkin (and who really cares about them?).
they could double the range on blink and it would still be useless: spells have a relatively tiny range compared characters' movement rates, snare poison, deadly throw, shadow step and sprint mean it's impossible to outrun a rogue even if you did start with a 40yard lead. so far, every class that has an identifiable weakness has been given enough tools to make them quite overpowered in spite of it. except mages. warriors and rogues complained about being kited, they were given kite immunity. warlocks complained they were "squishy", and now can achieve positively staggering health pools. hunters complained their pets were useless, and now they can become gods with sprinkles of ranged mortal strike in between. it's really a great time for game designers to watch and understand what "balance" means, and how best to not do it.
spell pushback mechanics have yet to be addressed in terms of pvp, and in fact i don't believe there would be a way to fix it without breaking pve as well. possibly allow mages to damage sheeped targets... in the manner of fear. as warlocks and priests and warriors have been doing since forever. but it's unlikely (absolutely not gonna happen) that wotlk is gonna change how pathetic mages are in pvp. rogue pvp utility needs a dramatic nerf (the subtraction of one or possibly two key abilities completely might be enough), and BM hunters need a major reigning in as well.
Edited, Mar 14th 2008 12:56am by LaFey
Quote:
(like their freakin deadzone back!!)
I completely disagree.
Before that was Fixed just about every mage I ran into would exploit the dead zone. I'm sorry but rendering a class completely un-useable because of a huge 10 foot gimped no attack radius is cheap.
Monsieur Ebonspine wrote:
Quote:
(like their freakin deadzone back!!)
I completely disagree.
Before that was Fixed just about every mage I ran into would exploit the dead zone. I'm sorry but rendering a class completely un-useable because of a huge 10 foot gimped no attack radius is cheap.
It took some serious effort to keep in a hunter's deadzone. Which was rendered useless the second they went red mage-killer of doom. You wanna talk cheap, let's talk about a Demo lock with a felhunter out that could lock out a magic school, put up enough resistances to make my attacks nigh futile against the pet so it was able to just bash on me non-stop, while the warlock puts up DoTs that assure my untimely death even should I manage to kill him through his fears. Not to mention that this demo lock has a 20% damage mitigation against my spells ignoring resistances.
But in the end, even that isn't all that cheap. Annoying as hell, but not cheap. Hunters had to worry about how many classes deadzoning them? It was an effective countermeasure in PvP. It didn't need to be removed any more than Demo locks need nerfing.
Both are fine. Well, one WAS fine.
3 posts
I disagree. The only hunters I have trouble with is bm hunters but i can still beat them, when they use beastial wrath, i cast combustion, i run around for 8 seconds using scorch(fire vulnerability), then I ice block for teh remainder 10 seconds. when i come out i immediately sheep the hunter freeze the pet, trinket, pyroblast( should crit really high bc of triknet and fire vulnerability), throw in fire blast, blast wave, and dragons breath and then a fireball while tehyre walking around for 3 secs and they should be dead. Although that is very hard to do i have managed to beat some hunters.
Now i do not see what ur problem is with rogues. If they stealth stunlock you( whatever do the usual rogue thing) u can ice block then freeze then blink cast frostblot rank1(1.5 sec cast) and u can kite them. I have no problems with rogues.
The only class I fail to beat is locks. Have not found a strategy to beat them.
Now i do not see what ur problem is with rogues. If they stealth stunlock you( whatever do the usual rogue thing) u can ice block then freeze then blink cast frostblot rank1(1.5 sec cast) and u can kite them. I have no problems with rogues.
The only class I fail to beat is locks. Have not found a strategy to beat them.
Quote:
I completely disagree.
Before that was Fixed just about every mage I ran into would exploit the dead zone. I'm sorry but rendering a class completely un-useable because of a huge 10 foot gimped no attack radius is cheap.
Before that was Fixed just about every mage I ran into would exploit the dead zone. I'm sorry but rendering a class completely un-useable because of a huge 10 foot gimped no attack radius is cheap.
10 yards? Slight exaggeration there XD
And no, it was fine. You can shut down melee by running away from them - only you can't doo it for a length of time without them reaching you. You can shut down Hunters, ranged physical, by staying in a small zone consisting of 2 yards which you most certainly cannot stay in all the time. Physical DPS is too good for cloth for there to be no way to avoid it. You may have noticed that a resilience capped mage will die in under 8 seconds to a MM Hunter on their own if the mage is in their range the whole time. Your burst melee damage is pretty good as well, though admitedly it sucks over a long period. Anyway, the point is that you need a way to shut down Hunter damage, and currently there is no way besides hugging them, which essentially stops you casting anything at all. Furthermore, the entire team has to hug them or they can just attack someone else.
Melee range is 0-5 yards.
The old 'ranged' range was 8-40 yards.
2 yards of 'exploit' goodness.
The old 'ranged' range was 8-40 yards.
2 yards of 'exploit' goodness.
11 posts
Sorry im not understanding why everyones having so much trouble with locks? i mean it seems like everyones just taking the fears and gettin dotted up. Did we all forget we have CS? i mean this is insane. a CS'd lock is breakfast. all you need is 8sec to burn him down or less. PoM/Pyroblast/Blast Wave/Arcane Explosion he's dead.
iamastharath wrote:
Sorry im not understanding why everyones having so much trouble with locks? i mean it seems like everyones just taking the fears and gettin dotted up. Did we all forget we have CS? i mean this is insane. a CS'd lock is breakfast. all you need is 8sec to burn him down or less. PoM/Pyroblast/Blast Wave/Arcane Explosion he's dead.
Are you forgetting about their little minion the fel hunter? The one that let's them spell lock any caster for (5 seconds?) and during that time they can use their instant dots, deathcoil/fear you and the damage that you do to their 13k hp will be mostly resisted because of their soul link?
Anobix wrote:
will be mostly resisted because of their soul link?
Actually Soul Link is mitigation, the high resistances come from Master Demonologist, which at 5/5 points grants 1 resist per level to the felhunter, so at level 70, you get an additional 70 from that alone.
Having a 70 mage, 70 hunter and a 70 warlock, I'll say this.
Old deadzone was fine, was no need to change it, good hunters could work around it, good mages used it to win. Warlock vs mage is the easiest fight I have when playing my lock. No fear is not an IWIN button. Know how hard warlocks ******* you in PvP? That's what rogues do to warlocks, Even MORE actually because a rogue can stunlock a lock from 100% to 0% without even thinking about it. Mage is the weakest of the three when it comes to PvP hands down.
There is more but that seems to be the most common points of contention I see brought up.
Warlord Filterspawn wrote:
Anobix wrote:
will be mostly resisted because of their soul link?
Actually Soul Link is mitigation, the high resistances come from Master Demonologist, which at 5/5 points grants 1 resist per level to the felhunter, so at level 70, you get an additional 70 from that alone.
Don't forget that felhunters also get an additional spell resist inherently. I want to say it's 2 points per level, but I could be wrong.
Warlord Filterspawn wrote:
Anobix wrote:
will be mostly resisted because of their soul link?
Actually Soul Link is mitigation, the high resistances come from Master Demonologist, which at 5/5 points grants 1 resist per level to the felhunter, so at level 70, you get an additional 70 from that alone.
Having a 70 mage, 70 hunter and a 70 warlock, I'll say this.
Old deadzone was fine, was no need to change it, good hunters could work around it, good mages used it to win. Warlock vs mage is the easiest fight I have when playing my lock. No fear is not an IWIN button. Know how hard warlocks ***@#%^ you in PvP? That's what rogues do to warlocks, Even MORE actually because a rogue can stunlock a lock from 100% to 0% without even thinking about it. Mage is the weakest of the three when it comes to PvP hands down.
There is more but that seems to be the most common points of contention I see brought up.
ahh, thanks for the correction, I knew it was some spec talent.
I'm not sure why this was newsworthy.
"Mages to get new spells in TBC, with new effects! They may even get some more levels if they're lucky!" I mean... it's a Blue post, but still.
As aggravating as this is, it's somewhat mollified by the part where you don't run into BM Hunters in serious PvP. It's like complaining that Rogues and Warriors will always lose to a Protadin - it's true, and it's also pretty much completely irrelevant.
"Mages to get new spells in TBC, with new effects! They may even get some more levels if they're lucky!" I mean... it's a Blue post, but still.
Quote:
It took some serious effort to keep in a hunter's deadzone. Which was rendered useless the second they went red mage-killer of doom.
As aggravating as this is, it's somewhat mollified by the part where you don't run into BM Hunters in serious PvP. It's like complaining that Rogues and Warriors will always lose to a Protadin - it's true, and it's also pretty much completely irrelevant.
Quote:
Quote:
It took some serious effort to keep in a hunter's deadzone. Which was rendered useless the second they went red mage-killer of doom.
As aggravating as this is, it's somewhat mollified by the part where you don't run into BM Hunters in serious PvP. It's like complaining that Rogues and Warriors will always lose to a Protadin - it's true, and it's also pretty much completely irrelevant.
It's not like marks is much worse off at killing mages or peeling them out of their deadzone (if they had one).
The best way to kill hunters for a mage is to go on a suicide mission - close up and spam all instants, trying to run on top of him to minimize dmg taken. Locks - CS their shadowschool and wait for your death (unles you are playing a n00bed who let's you pull at shatter combo on him). If you loose to rogues as a frost mage - L2P.
RPZip wrote:
As aggravating as this is, it's somewhat mollified by the part where you don't run into BM Hunters in serious PvP. It's like complaining that Rogues and Warriors will always lose to a Protadin - it's true, and it's also pretty much completely irrelevant.
Back when I still PvPed a bit(Season 1), I ran into a fair number of them. And to be fair, the deadzone was still in place back then.
Edited, Mar 18th 2008 7:09pm by Poldaran
Quote:
Mages will get new abilities in the expansion too, believe it or not. In fact, we intend to tone down how strong of a counter warlocks are to mages through the wotlk spells/talents.
Source
Thank God, I hate fight locks...
Source
Thank God, I hate fight locks...
You realize that doesnt mean we are getting "buffed" right? Sure, it is a possibility, but all this is saying is:
"Hey, mages will get new abilities in the expansions" --> durr, didnt see that one coming /rolleyes
and
"Yeah, we will tone down how strong of a counter warlocks are to mages" --> Currently, warlocks are such a ridiuclous counter to mages that even if it is "toned down", warlocks will probably still remain a counter class to mages.
It is hard to debate right now though. Way too early to tell. All I am saying is, just don't get too excited, because that post by Kalgan could have been interpreted in many different ways.
31 posts
i play a 70 rogue and read all the statements about rogues being OP in pvp and immuned to kiting. You said they need a pvp nerf. i completely disagree. rogues have one and a half trees that are designed for pvp, subtlety is amazing, and assassination is ok. Subtlety is worthless in pve and assassination is ok. assassination rogues are not overpowered in pvp and do not deserve a nerf, combat rogues are next to worthless in pvp and could arguably be buffed. but if combat rogues could be good in pvp then nobody would make a subtlety rogue. i spec combat and have fought a lot of frost mages who can kite me to no end in arena using all CD's. but yes, if i spec'd subtlety i would probably have no problem against any type of mage, but then i would sacrifice my pve viability. dont cry about rogues being OP in arena and then kick their asses in pve settings without having to respec when they would.
Chrizwan wrote:
dont cry about rogues being OP in arena and then kick their asses in pve settings without having to respec when they would.
Mages have to deal with the same crap. Don't think rogues are special because only one and a half of their trees are good for PvP.
scatter shot > deadzone. L2hunter
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