I Never Cast Judgements... EVER...Follow

So I got my 2-piece T5 set bonus last night after my guild's 3rd kill of Leo the Blind in SSC. Already having the shoulders from Loot Reaver, I finally take a look at the set bonus:

"Each time you cast a Judgement, your party members gain 50 mana."

Seems like a "meh" talent. Say, for simplicity's sake, that I have 10,000 mana unbuffed. Judgement costs 5% of base mana, so 10000 * .05 = 500. Plus, the cost of the seal to begin with. Say the most common in a raid situation is judgement of wisdom on the boss. Seal of Wisdom costs 270. That means that to cast SoW and Judge it costs a total of 770 mana. What you initially get back is 250 mana from the set bonus, plus the amount you get back from the seal's effect.

Here's the thing though - I almost never judge a boss. Most of the time I'm too concentrated on healing everyone to ever remember to judge the boss. Sometimes I'm in a position where I'm just too far away.

I'm assuming this is probably a big hole in my game and that I need to start doing these things. Anyone else have this problem?

Oh and here's the armory in case its needed:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kargath&n=Maniero

As far as judgements go, considering the mana cost associated with them, unless there's a ret pally in the raid to refresh the judgement, they don't seem worth it. All that mana spent judging is a holy light taken away from healing your raid, no?

Sorry if I'm a n00b, but since when does "base mana" mean "unbuffed mana"? I always thought it meant your base, if you had no extra intellect. So instead of having 10,000 mana at level 70, I'm guessing you'd have, eh, 3k? So 5% would be 150. So for casting 150 mana, everyone in your party gets 50, for a net gain of 100 mana?

Looks like this would be better on a Retribution set, honestly, as I could see them judging a lot more often. Still, I don't think it's quite as bad as your example, because I think base mana =/= unbuffed mana.

Still ****-poor for Holy, of course.

Edit: Put in the section I am talking about.

Edited, Mar 6th 2008 5:33pm by LockeColeMA

rets dont JoC?

Good point, I didn't think about that, heh.

Though from what I have gleaned from the various threads in this forum, you don't want to be Judgeing SoC every CD on the chance you will miss a proc. So with a Ret Paladin that waits to Judge until he'll need to refresh the Seal anyway, it's still not that great for a Ret. If the Ret spammed Judgement, then yes, it would be useful.

Well, that definitely makes it better if it's only the BASE mana before intellect gains, which is a lot better. Honestly, I've never really paid attention to judgement mana cost, so, that's my bad.

I guess what I'm getting back to is whether its a big hole in my game that I don't constantly judge raid bosses?

It seems that we're all in agreement that the T5 2-piece set bonus blows.

I have 10k manam, just logged in and JoR costs 260 mana. JoW 270.

I think the 2 piece buff is kind of worthless myself but if you are in a raid where you are having to put up JoW (cause the mana regen off that is absolutely insane) then hey, its not absolutely fricking useless, but still pretty sh'itty for a 2 piece buff.

It's not necessarily a hole in your game if you're not judging, it's a matter of, well, judgement. I think we all love the notion of Paladins as being Healing Warriors, which means we want to wade right into the middle of the fight, smash face, and then heal when needed. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work out this way. As much as your group may love you for the mana bonus, they'll hate you if you slip on your healing duties and cause a wipe because of it. I judge and do damage when I can, but try to keep in mind that my primary responsibility is to keep people alive.

At the risk of veering this thread further away from Pally stuff, Poldaran, my alt is a mage and I've posted a few things on the mage forums.

I thought that 2-piece Mage T5 was the point at which one should switch to Arcane and break up their Spellstrike/Spellfire. Is this no longer the case with the removal of the Fireball "tax"?

This, pretty much. Though the cooldown on Lightning Capacitor procs didn't help arcane much either.

Anyway, my point is really that many classes have really ****** 2 pc(and sometimes even 4 pc) set bonuses. Druid Resto 4pc T6 is a great example of another ridiculous set bonus. But the good news is that there are actual good set bonuses out there.

Check out Healadin T6 if you haven't already. The two bonuses on that more than make up for the crap that you've had to deal with up til then, IMO. Mage t6 is the same way.