I have started noticing a severe change in how tanking goes once I hit 50.
Mobs hit hard and I take lots of damage. I mean there has been several times where my wife was unable to keep me alive without me drinking the biggest pot I had as the mobs were just tearing me apart.
This usually involves 3-5 mob pulls where I have to pop challenging shout and a taunt to ensure I have everyone.
this is where the problem lies. I have the tanking helm from Mara that has +10 defense rating and +10 stam and higher armor class rating. I kept that just incase as I am an impale arms warrior. (Already started running into problems due to impale but nothing major that an easy kill in pvp doesn't fix.)
I also just got the helm that drops in BRD... can't remember the name atm but its like +stam +agil +str armor.
basically I am wondering if this is the time to start collecting my tanking gear so I can be an efficient tank.
I said when the run was over... "damn I take a lot of damage." and the off healer said, "yeah you do but your a good tank."
Can I get help to be a better tank?
How much defense rating should I have in BRD to keep from getting pulverized? Is this the time I have to decide to respec or just deal?
Thanks for your time.
An aspiring warrior
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lvl 50 and up tanking.Follow
My suggestion is just go out and get the 3 levels so you both can go to the Big Time! Outlands gear will help you seperate your tanking and dps sets, there's a noticable difference in the sets there.
As for what's going on now.... I think it's gear related, big time. 3.3k hp seems low for lv55. Everything you have should contain stamina for the most part... no, I think everything should have it.
A lot of your lv 40 gear (feet, chest, finger) should be replaced, why I suggest just getting to the outlands and quest for much better gear.
Legs have no stamina, good str but if tanking prolly want stam.
Neck peice is lv34, there has to be a better stam/agi or str one in 21 levels.
Dunno what tanking swd or shield you're using, but if it's current with stam you should be ok.
That's my suggestion. Bring your wife to the Outlands for questing also... the Hellboars are going to kick your butt until you get some quest armor/weapons, so healing would be nice.
*edit*
You're tanking 3-5 mobs?? You have NO CC? Now is the time to get parties familiar with Crowd Controlling mobs. No wonder they're heal spamming you. Sheep/sap/shackle/seduce/banish/freeze trap/MC (You know the CC forms), but start using what your party has, it'll make things easier for you. T.Clap only hits 4 mobs, Taunt will only trump the the highest threat... and it gets resisted at times.
Edited, Mar 6th 2008 11:49am by GYFFORD
As for what's going on now.... I think it's gear related, big time. 3.3k hp seems low for lv55. Everything you have should contain stamina for the most part... no, I think everything should have it.
A lot of your lv 40 gear (feet, chest, finger) should be replaced, why I suggest just getting to the outlands and quest for much better gear.
Legs have no stamina, good str but if tanking prolly want stam.
Neck peice is lv34, there has to be a better stam/agi or str one in 21 levels.
Dunno what tanking swd or shield you're using, but if it's current with stam you should be ok.
That's my suggestion. Bring your wife to the Outlands for questing also... the Hellboars are going to kick your butt until you get some quest armor/weapons, so healing would be nice.
*edit*
Quote:
This usually involves 3-5 mob pulls where I have to pop challenging shout and a taunt to ensure I have everyone.
You're tanking 3-5 mobs?? You have NO CC? Now is the time to get parties familiar with Crowd Controlling mobs. No wonder they're heal spamming you. Sheep/sap/shackle/seduce/banish/freeze trap/MC (You know the CC forms), but start using what your party has, it'll make things easier for you. T.Clap only hits 4 mobs, Taunt will only trump the the highest threat... and it gets resisted at times.
Edited, Mar 6th 2008 11:49am by GYFFORD
I've never noticed any change in tanking mobs...
What you should do though, is try never to pull more than 3 mobs at any one time. I never got any clarity if you meant that you are in an instance or soloing while encountering this problem. I'll assume instance, since that's the most logical conclusion.
You should always use the CC in your group to that maximum. You shouldn't pop Challenging Shout unless you loose aggro on two or more mobs around you. You should gather tanking gear from every instance you enter, and never sell it unless you find something better.
The helm from mara is good enough in BRD. Believe you get a pair of less from princess that are good enough for BRD too, but those could be DPS legs.
As for taking damage and improving defense rating: The best you can do is really keep your HP pool as high as possible and wait for the sweet +def and +stam gear that gets more and more common post-50ish. While you won't need to depend on defense like you do in endgame content, it's a very good stat for you nevertheless.
Back to the CC part: You need to CC mobs. Especially in BRD. BRD isn't like any other instance in either Azeroth or Outlands. Mobs hit like trucks, bosses are also harder, it's big as hell and you've got several routes you can take (since a full run will take you a whole afternoon + night). In this instance, if any, you need your CC to be top notch.
Only respec if you have aggro issues. If you have survivability issues; gear up.
What you should do though, is try never to pull more than 3 mobs at any one time. I never got any clarity if you meant that you are in an instance or soloing while encountering this problem. I'll assume instance, since that's the most logical conclusion.
You should always use the CC in your group to that maximum. You shouldn't pop Challenging Shout unless you loose aggro on two or more mobs around you. You should gather tanking gear from every instance you enter, and never sell it unless you find something better.
The helm from mara is good enough in BRD. Believe you get a pair of less from princess that are good enough for BRD too, but those could be DPS legs.
As for taking damage and improving defense rating: The best you can do is really keep your HP pool as high as possible and wait for the sweet +def and +stam gear that gets more and more common post-50ish. While you won't need to depend on defense like you do in endgame content, it's a very good stat for you nevertheless.
Back to the CC part: You need to CC mobs. Especially in BRD. BRD isn't like any other instance in either Azeroth or Outlands. Mobs hit like trucks, bosses are also harder, it's big as hell and you've got several routes you can take (since a full run will take you a whole afternoon + night). In this instance, if any, you need your CC to be top notch.
Only respec if you have aggro issues. If you have survivability issues; gear up.
Yeah we tried to keep 2 of them on ice but both hunters failed at that job. We lost a mage that was really good at keeping 1 sheeped due to a lag out of a DC of somesort. We gave them 20 minutes and decided it was time to get someone else.
Another problem I noticed was partially the 64 hunters fault (though not really I guess.) He was able to off tank one with his pet but he kept pulling off me and for obvious reasons.
But the other hunter... he admitted hating having to trap and I told him that he was going to hate being 70 in a party then because they depend on the hunter traps alot.
As for my sword... I don't have a better 1 hander than a chance on extra hit on swing. looking for a good 1 hand weap. I am still using the Agis of the Scarlet Commander for my shield. As for everything else. I haven't found a better replacement yet. We didn't do to bad. killed all but 1 boss that you could kill and not have the key. Reason for that is we had a DC issue at my house and my wifes comp locked up. Took her 15 min to get back in and the instance had started repopping by then.
All in all it was a good run. No other items jumped out for me except the helm that I took and the healing gear my wife took. I'm hoping for a few more pieces next run.
also
I usually lost 1 to the healer right off the bat that I would taunt and sunder up. I marked most of the instance. Unfortunately none in my group have had a toon higher than the level they were at current except the 64 hunter who has a 70 druid tank for a main. (2nd in command of the guild I am in) This caused for a bit of frustrations that took a bit of time adjusting.
Edited, Mar 6th 2008 10:56am by HitashLevat
Another problem I noticed was partially the 64 hunters fault (though not really I guess.) He was able to off tank one with his pet but he kept pulling off me and for obvious reasons.
But the other hunter... he admitted hating having to trap and I told him that he was going to hate being 70 in a party then because they depend on the hunter traps alot.
As for my sword... I don't have a better 1 hander than a chance on extra hit on swing. looking for a good 1 hand weap. I am still using the Agis of the Scarlet Commander for my shield. As for everything else. I haven't found a better replacement yet. We didn't do to bad. killed all but 1 boss that you could kill and not have the key. Reason for that is we had a DC issue at my house and my wifes comp locked up. Took her 15 min to get back in and the instance had started repopping by then.
All in all it was a good run. No other items jumped out for me except the helm that I took and the healing gear my wife took. I'm hoping for a few more pieces next run.
also
I usually lost 1 to the healer right off the bat that I would taunt and sunder up. I marked most of the instance. Unfortunately none in my group have had a toon higher than the level they were at current except the 64 hunter who has a 70 druid tank for a main. (2nd in command of the guild I am in) This caused for a bit of frustrations that took a bit of time adjusting.
Edited, Mar 6th 2008 10:56am by HitashLevat
While I can understand that the level 50 hunter doesn't want to trap (due to the duration of Freezing Trap (Rank [pre-60]) making it unreliable) the level 60 hunter had no excuse not to. You should be able to trap with a 20 sec duration and 30 sec CD.
I completely agree with you. He did trap a few times. Which was a few more times than the other hunter who aparently dispite my advice on how to do it wouldn't trap at all.
if you think they hit hard now, wait until you start tanking in the outlands. don't worry about your gear for now, it's ALL going to be gone in three levels. i tanked BRD with similar stuff and had few problems, although i was prot which probably helps.
once you hit 58, you are going to want to keep two sets of gear to tank effectively. you will double your hp very quickly.
look at it another way, how's your wife's healing? is she spec'd for it? with your gear, you will want a pretty good healer and some CC - BRD has lots of big pulls.
once you hit 58, you are going to want to keep two sets of gear to tank effectively. you will double your hp very quickly.
look at it another way, how's your wife's healing? is she spec'd for it? with your gear, you will want a pretty good healer and some CC - BRD has lots of big pulls.
My wife is definately holy.
sense lvl 10 holy with only 1 respec. We are working on getting her a healing gear set as she refuses to spam FoL during the whole fight. which in this case I was glad she didn't as I would have been dead quick.
sense lvl 10 holy with only 1 respec. We are working on getting her a healing gear set as she refuses to spam FoL during the whole fight. which in this case I was glad she didn't as I would have been dead quick.
Why are you using taunt?
Cause I lose one to my wife. I taunt it. If I happen to lose 2 or more at one time I would pop Challenging shout. I wrote that wrong and I apologize for the confusion.
Edited, Mar 7th 2008 7:36am by HitashLevat
Edited, Mar 7th 2008 7:36am by HitashLevat
My warrior is 58 and BRD is still hard. To stay alive with a moderately ok healer and a sorta ok PUG I've had to spec prot. Allows me to easily hold aggro and survive better. Definetly hit 58, the gear is insanely better that you can get in the AH. I think another problem is that BRD requires a group to have it's "stuff" together. You can't just have people doing whatever they want and make it. BRD and pugging sucks.
With a outland-geared level 64 hunter in your party, you shouldn't be having any problems (the mobs are like 49-52). When my hunter was level 65, me and some guildies decided we wanted to get the Onyxia quest chain done. I soloed my way to Marshal Windsor twice without any problems/deaths.
The problem most people have with BRD is the patrols that are everyhwere. You already have to fight groups of 4-6 mobs at a time, and when a patrol comes on you while you are fighting, it's wipe time. Take your time, watch where the patrols are and pull mobs to a cleared area. Having the hunter drop a freeze trap in front of the healer before the pull is ideal as well.
The problem most people have with BRD is the patrols that are everyhwere. You already have to fight groups of 4-6 mobs at a time, and when a patrol comes on you while you are fighting, it's wipe time. Take your time, watch where the patrols are and pull mobs to a cleared area. Having the hunter drop a freeze trap in front of the healer before the pull is ideal as well.
Generally its paladins that pull 3-5 mobs at a time because they have some incredible AoE threat producing abilities.
However, for warrior, your going to want to only do 2-3 at most. sheep/CC the others. use sap, have a lock use seduction, polymorph, freeze traps, etc. It helps a LOT.
Popping challenging shout isnt how your supposed to tank. thats an emergency ability. what you need to do in large pulls is spam thunder clap, while tabbing and getting 1 sunder/revenge on every mob. dont worry about your damage, if your a good tank your DD can go all out on 1 mob or AoE all mobs and not pull hate.
I find as a warrior tank that theres a ton of clicking and non stop changing targets and spamming abilities. I'm an experienced tank and I've tanked several other mmos and i find wow multitarget tanking to require a LOT of focus, so dont sweat it if your not a good tank yet. get the omen threat meter and see where you stand on mobs and such. also, spend time figuring out which abilities you should use for more threat generation.
some small tips:
If someone pulls hate, and its not a backline class (mage/priest etc), dont use abilities that cost rage to pull hate back, instead wait about 2 seconds, use taunt, then pop sunders/revenge/MS. The idea here is you let the DD burn their damaging cooldowns/energy/rage then taunt to match their aggro instead of wasting your rage to play 'threat catch up'.
Also consider getting tactical mastery from the prot tree. it makes your MS pull more hate in defensive stance.
At the start of fights, if your going to ranged attack pull the mobs back, consider being in berserker stance as soon as the pull happens, pop berserker rage, and immediately switch to defensive stance. now the first couple hits will help generate some quick threat to help you get that thunderclap off.
Also, if possible, consider starting fights in battle stance. hit charge, and as soon as you see yourself charge to the mob, immediately hit the button for defensive stance. once again this starts you with some bonus rage. just be careful about the poisitioning as you dont want to get too close to other enemies and link them all.
However, for warrior, your going to want to only do 2-3 at most. sheep/CC the others. use sap, have a lock use seduction, polymorph, freeze traps, etc. It helps a LOT.
Popping challenging shout isnt how your supposed to tank. thats an emergency ability. what you need to do in large pulls is spam thunder clap, while tabbing and getting 1 sunder/revenge on every mob. dont worry about your damage, if your a good tank your DD can go all out on 1 mob or AoE all mobs and not pull hate.
I find as a warrior tank that theres a ton of clicking and non stop changing targets and spamming abilities. I'm an experienced tank and I've tanked several other mmos and i find wow multitarget tanking to require a LOT of focus, so dont sweat it if your not a good tank yet. get the omen threat meter and see where you stand on mobs and such. also, spend time figuring out which abilities you should use for more threat generation.
some small tips:
If someone pulls hate, and its not a backline class (mage/priest etc), dont use abilities that cost rage to pull hate back, instead wait about 2 seconds, use taunt, then pop sunders/revenge/MS. The idea here is you let the DD burn their damaging cooldowns/energy/rage then taunt to match their aggro instead of wasting your rage to play 'threat catch up'.
Also consider getting tactical mastery from the prot tree. it makes your MS pull more hate in defensive stance.
At the start of fights, if your going to ranged attack pull the mobs back, consider being in berserker stance as soon as the pull happens, pop berserker rage, and immediately switch to defensive stance. now the first couple hits will help generate some quick threat to help you get that thunderclap off.
Also, if possible, consider starting fights in battle stance. hit charge, and as soon as you see yourself charge to the mob, immediately hit the button for defensive stance. once again this starts you with some bonus rage. just be careful about the poisitioning as you dont want to get too close to other enemies and link them all.
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