Quote:
Avenger’s Shield: This ability will no longer jump to secondary targets which are under the effect of crowd-control spells that break on taking damage. I.e. Polymorph, Sap, etc.
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Straight off the new patch notes from the PTR. Source is mmo-chamion.com
Avenger’s Shield: This ability will no longer jump to secondary targets which are under the effect of crowd-control spells that break on taking damage. I.e. Polymorph, Sap, etc.
Avenger’s Shield: This ability will no longer jump to secondary targets which are under the effect of crowd-control spells that break on taking damage. I.e. Polymorph, Sap, etc.
hmm that is rather phat. who needs CC though imo.
Actually, it gets even better when you consider this:
If you ever had a safe pull turn into a frantic fight because your AS hopped to another group than planned because it chose to jump off a critter who sat in the middle, you'll see this as another good thing :)
Edited, Mar 6th 2008 4:37pm by Alastaironsiren
Quote:
- Critters: Ambient level 1 creatures will no longer be picked as subsequent targets by chaining spells and abilities.
If you ever had a safe pull turn into a frantic fight because your AS hopped to another group than planned because it chose to jump off a critter who sat in the middle, you'll see this as another good thing :)
Edited, Mar 6th 2008 4:37pm by Alastaironsiren
yea, learn 2 tank.
coming from a level 47 prot pally that hasn't tanked anything yet.....
coming from a level 47 prot pally that hasn't tanked anything yet.....
It always crits the critters, too. 1500 damage Avenger's Shield on a 1 hp mob... what a waste.
NO NO NO!!! Why are they changing Avengers Shield? There is nothing wrong with it as it is. It is easy to not break CC if you pull with any ounce of skill, just CC after the pull, or fire your shield on the appropriate mob.
Avengers shield is also a great way to break CC when you actually want to, loading all that threat onto the mob ensures the sheeping mage doesn't get an angry charging monster in his face.
This really just seems like they are basically putting Avengers shield into 'Idiot mode' which actually makes it worse for anyone who wants to use it more creatively or with a little bit of skill.
Avengers shield is also a great way to break CC when you actually want to, loading all that threat onto the mob ensures the sheeping mage doesn't get an angry charging monster in his face.
This really just seems like they are basically putting Avengers shield into 'Idiot mode' which actually makes it worse for anyone who wants to use it more creatively or with a little bit of skill.
im sure you can still manually target a sheep and hit him with the shield...
I'll agree with the point about them making the game so easy now, but really, pally tanking is far from difficult.
Edited, Mar 6th 2008 8:28am by KTurner
I'll agree with the point about them making the game so easy now, but really, pally tanking is far from difficult.
Edited, Mar 6th 2008 8:28am by KTurner
I always have them wait until after the pull to sheep anyway, for one. For my next trick I present to you "Mana Tap" which, yes, does break sheep.
I agree with this change in general. There's quite a bit of crying on other forums that they are "Making AoE easier" but they really aren't. The abilities that are effected aren't even AoE abilities, just chaining or multi-target ones.
And I'm fed up with watching my shield bounce off of rats and into another pack of mobs or a patrol.. or just bouncing off of the first REAL target it hits into 2 critters leavining me with no threat on the other 2 I was trying to pull.
And I'm fed up with watching my shield bounce off of rats and into another pack of mobs or a patrol.. or just bouncing off of the first REAL target it hits into 2 critters leavining me with no threat on the other 2 I was trying to pull.
Yeah... the change with critters is nice & I agree with it. Why even have the critters target able? Sure its fun to 1-hit 1HP mobs with a nice crit... but it's more harmful than helpful, damage meters may not rule out that damage.
You generally only get one AS off each pull, I can understand timing CC is more challenging & requires more team work, but Blizz has MANY other ways to increase the game difficulty. "Easy mode" isn't dictated by how AS reacts or is timed BEFORE you even start the battle.
Sheep wasn't that bad.. a decent mage can easily sheep a mob after a pull, heck it's nice when the sheep target gets hit with AS. Then when sheep breaks they B-line to you, not the mage.
Sap is another story, THIS change is huge for the Rogue, who might be left out "just" because of pally pulls. If anything it makes the Rogues job easier, now they don't have to listen to directions :P
Kz
You generally only get one AS off each pull, I can understand timing CC is more challenging & requires more team work, but Blizz has MANY other ways to increase the game difficulty. "Easy mode" isn't dictated by how AS reacts or is timed BEFORE you even start the battle.
Sheep wasn't that bad.. a decent mage can easily sheep a mob after a pull, heck it's nice when the sheep target gets hit with AS. Then when sheep breaks they B-line to you, not the mage.
Sap is another story, THIS change is huge for the Rogue, who might be left out "just" because of pally pulls. If anything it makes the Rogues job easier, now they don't have to listen to directions :P
Kz
This just makes partying with rogues more useful, cause a rogue essentially being a somewhat cc class turns into a non cc class when a Paladin tank is involved.
And I'm pretty sure you can break cc with it by targeting the mob with cc, it just wont bounce to cc'd mobs.
And I'm pretty sure you can break cc with it by targeting the mob with cc, it just wont bounce to cc'd mobs.
Chamual wrote:
This really just seems like they are basically putting Avengers shield into 'Idiot mode' which actually makes it worse for anyone who wants to use it more creatively or with a little bit of skill.
Swipe got the same treatment, and yeah, this was my initial reaction as well. I'm all for making tanking tools better for tanking, but there just comes a point where you don't need the game automatically doing everything for you.
Avengers Shield and Swipe now = /cruisecontrol.
Edited, Mar 6th 2008 1:59pm by Gaudion
I dont really consider this an easy mode, I consider this a fair treatment for rogues. They were being essentially denied their cc when having a Paladin tank, or the Paladin tank was being denied their frontload threat, depending on which way you wanted to go. It will make things easier sure, but easier in that you don't have to fight the games mechanics along with the game itself.
The wave of QQ is too much for you to stand against alone, CapJack.
I like the change it is not a big deal in the normal instances due to the fact that I really don't use much CC in them anyway but for heroics and raids CC is needed a bit more because the mobs hit so much harder. I hate not giving a rogue a spot in the group due to there pre fight CC almost all other classes can CC during the fight.
Scholar
25 posts
One part persistent rogue that is intent on sapping everything sappable, and equal parts paladin avenger shielding the sapped mob everytime.
= Hilarious.
= Hilarious.
Sheep I couldn't give a damn less about, but Sap is a nice little buff for certain instances.
I have mixed feelings on this change. Yes, finally, no more bouncing off those damn critters! 3 mobs and 2 critters in range it ALWAYS hits one mob and then both critters, only critting on the 2 critters ... I'm sure most if not all Tankadins have had this happen.
As for bypassing CC though ... I'm at the point I don't need CC except on very few encounters where multiple mobs fear, or some stuff like that which can make my life miserable. So, I'll just target the sapped mob anyway to make sure it breaks, no big deal. On the other hand, those tanks (of all classes) that aren't as well geared for an encounter, or groups/guilds that just won't take, "It's fine, I can take them all!" for an answer, are going to have an easier time with holding their aggro while keeping the necessary CC up.
I do think it takes away some of the challenge associated with tanking though: the whole part about making sure you position yourself correctly to avoid CC in the first place. It also makes it so CC classes can be lazy when it comes to positioning their CC. Hunters can plop their trap anywhere instead of train their target away from the tank. Mages don't have to time their sheeps to get it off before the mob reaches the tank. Etc..
In short: great change for some, unnecessary for others, but I think the laziness factor is really the biggest thing here. I'm leaning more toward not liking this rather than liking this =/
EDIT: couple typos.
Edited, Mar 6th 2008 2:35pm by Maulgak
As for bypassing CC though ... I'm at the point I don't need CC except on very few encounters where multiple mobs fear, or some stuff like that which can make my life miserable. So, I'll just target the sapped mob anyway to make sure it breaks, no big deal. On the other hand, those tanks (of all classes) that aren't as well geared for an encounter, or groups/guilds that just won't take, "It's fine, I can take them all!" for an answer, are going to have an easier time with holding their aggro while keeping the necessary CC up.
I do think it takes away some of the challenge associated with tanking though: the whole part about making sure you position yourself correctly to avoid CC in the first place. It also makes it so CC classes can be lazy when it comes to positioning their CC. Hunters can plop their trap anywhere instead of train their target away from the tank. Mages don't have to time their sheeps to get it off before the mob reaches the tank. Etc..
In short: great change for some, unnecessary for others, but I think the laziness factor is really the biggest thing here. I'm leaning more toward not liking this rather than liking this =/
EDIT: couple typos.
Edited, Mar 6th 2008 2:35pm by Maulgak
CapJack of the Seven Seas wrote:
This just makes partying with rogues more useful, cause a rogue essentially being a somewhat cc class turns into a non cc class when a Paladin tank is involved.
And I'm pretty sure you can break cc with it by targeting the mob with cc, it just wont bounce to cc'd mobs.
And I'm pretty sure you can break cc with it by targeting the mob with cc, it just wont bounce to cc'd mobs.
Yep.
Quote:
Avenger’s Shield: This ability will no longer jump to secondary targets which are under the effect of crowd-control spells that break on taking damage. I.e. Polymorph, Sap, etc.
I don't know, it seems consecrate will still break CC, so you can't be TOO lazy.
Loki wrote:
I don't know, it seems consecrate will still break CC, so you can't be TOO lazy.
Give it time. I'm fairly certain they're making it a point to implement cute little fixes like this so they can appear "too busy" to address the real issues that need addressing. Like Shaman buffs, for instance, that aren't just poorly-aimed copy/paste traits from other classes.
So if say I get a four pull and for argument's sake let's say three of them get sapped, so the avenger's shield will just stop now? Bah... my friends will probably throw out CC's just to irritate me now. XD
I saw this coming.
No, seriously. I was in bed two nights ago thinking about a Mana Tombs run I did with two rogues and I went "It'd fix everything if they just made it so the shield didn't bounce to a sapped guy."
It's not like it was ever difficult, though. 3 men or less, you really don't need CC, with the exception of some heroics. More than 3 and you just sap the one to the far left and shield the guy to the far right. I never had any problems, really.
Side note: Wouldn't it be awesome if WotLK gave us an improved avenger's shield that had XX% chance to stun instead of daze?
Answer: No, because I just realised that renders it useless as a pulling tool. /faceslap
No, seriously. I was in bed two nights ago thinking about a Mana Tombs run I did with two rogues and I went "It'd fix everything if they just made it so the shield didn't bounce to a sapped guy."
It's not like it was ever difficult, though. 3 men or less, you really don't need CC, with the exception of some heroics. More than 3 and you just sap the one to the far left and shield the guy to the far right. I never had any problems, really.
Side note: Wouldn't it be awesome if WotLK gave us an improved avenger's shield that had XX% chance to stun instead of daze?
Answer: No, because I just realised that renders it useless as a pulling tool. /faceslap
Quote:
So if say I get a four pull and for argument's sake let's say three of them get sapped, so the avenger's shield will just stop now? Bah... my friends will probably throw out CC's just to irritate me now. XD
(Sung to "If I Only Had a Heart" -- Tin Man, Wizard of Oz)
Consecration, Consecration
The answer's Consecration
The best sheep breaker in the world
And all those stupid Rogues
Will be put off when you show
That sap's for little girls
Consecration, Consecration
The answer's Consecration
The best sheep breaker in the world
And all those crazy Mages
Will flip you off and ask
"How'd these guys become Sages?"
When you show them sheep's for little girls
But honestly.... Is this really going to create a problem where you CANT break someone's sheep when you want to? I think not :D
Edited, Mar 8th 2008 10:42am by Losie
jesus f***ing christ, why the hell are people COMPLAINING about these new, good changes? Of all the things I expected when reading this thread, the least I thought I was going to find was a QQ thread about being creative. Um, stfu and be happy!
2.4 is going to be awesome for me. I'll get to bring my prot pally into the MH raid.
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