Just like the title says. If you are dealing with a 25 man raid, and most are of equal gear quality, where do you expect to sit.
For instance in our TK (VR) raid last night I was at #7 in damage on the VR Death Fight. Above me were the 2 locks, 2 Enhancement Shammies, 1 Rogue, and 1 Elemental Shammy. We are all around equal geared, except for my pathetic weapon, but the prince and gruul will not drop me a new one and I am still working on the PvP one.
I was the top out of all the mages in that fight, I don't count trash mobs because I spent alot of time monitoring CC and not DPSing.
Should the mage be #1 if the others are performing to the best of their ability, or is the top 10 (if all classes of DPS are present) where we should be?
I am just trying to help my guild as much as possible and if I am severly underperforming then I need to check the WWS and seriously work on my game.
Armory
Edited, Mar 5th 2008 4:20pm by compgenius
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Where should a Raiding Mage be in terms of DamageFollow
for a fight like VR I am lucky if I am in the top 5, if I am that normally means someone else was slacking. I tend to have bad luck with that fight (or did, as we don't do TK anymore) because I was running around for about half of the fight, and unlike locks, where half of their damage comes from their dots mages can't do that. Rogues and enchancement shammies stay in the center the entire time just DPSing, and the elemental shaman has faster casts and can put their totems by themselves wherever they go.
In a regular fight (less movement, more time for dps) I normally expect myself to be in the top 4 or 5, of course depending on the fight (if it has AoE, etc) and what my job is. For fights like A'lar where I do the adds and melee is on a'lar the entire time then they will have more time to do straight dps and not running around after the adds and changing targets. Fights like Tidewalker, Lurker (sometimes -- if I have a spriest I just stay in the water the entire time and dps), Solarion, Hydross (to an extent) are great for mages because of the AoE element and not too much movement.
Edited, Mar 5th 2008 4:29pm by Anobix
In a regular fight (less movement, more time for dps) I normally expect myself to be in the top 4 or 5, of course depending on the fight (if it has AoE, etc) and what my job is. For fights like A'lar where I do the adds and melee is on a'lar the entire time then they will have more time to do straight dps and not running around after the adds and changing targets. Fights like Tidewalker, Lurker (sometimes -- if I have a spriest I just stay in the water the entire time and dps), Solarion, Hydross (to an extent) are great for mages because of the AoE element and not too much movement.
Edited, Mar 5th 2008 4:29pm by Anobix
I like to compare myself to the other casters, personally. I'm usually #1 or occasionally #2 among them and I'm ok with that.
Could you put this in terms of DPS for me. Last night I was doing VR and after a wipe they put up the dps charts. The top was a rogue was wanst even doing 650 dps, and the rest of the top five were barely above 600 dps. I had to spend alot that fight not dps'ing because the tanks aggro generation sucked bad (I even popped invis 2 times in that fight and still had to hold back alot).
Melee dps in that fight should obviously be better than the ranged dps, but that 650dps figure I thought was horrible.
In the all the trash pulls leading up to VR I was #1 on the charts. Its my opinion that the melee dps should be at least pushing 800 dps if they are worthwhile.
Melee dps in that fight should obviously be better than the ranged dps, but that 650dps figure I thought was horrible.
In the all the trash pulls leading up to VR I was #1 on the charts. Its my opinion that the melee dps should be at least pushing 800 dps if they are worthwhile.
uzemaki wrote:
Could you put this in terms of DPS for me. Last night I was doing VR and after a wipe they put up the dps charts. The top was a rogue was wanst even doing 650 dps, and the rest of the top five were barely above 600 dps. I had to spend alot that fight not dps'ing because the tanks aggro generation sucked bad (I even popped invis 2 times in that fight and still had to hold back alot).
650 DPS on a rogue on VR is pretty ******, I think. Lemme go double check our WWS reports for the last VR kill we did.
One rogue did 1154. The other did 1148. Followed by a warrior at 969 and an enhancement shaman at 862.
for my guild on our last VR kill (about 3 weeks ago), the top 10 were all over 800 dps
#1 was a warlock (1130), #2 was a mage (top dps mage in the guild -- did 1067), 2 rogues (960, 1090), ele shaman (1109), and I was #6 with 850 dps.
#1 was a warlock (1130), #2 was a mage (top dps mage in the guild -- did 1067), 2 rogues (960, 1090), ele shaman (1109), and I was #6 with 850 dps.
Ours went like this in terms of DPS and damage (top 10):
Fight Length : 8 min 18 secs
1. En Shaman : 826 (376,162)
2. En Shaman : 849 (344,135)
3. Lock : 830 (322,284)
4. Lock : 934 (304,680)
5. Rogue : 648 (289,938)
6. El Shaman : 793 (284,814)
7. Me(Mage) : 642 (266,586)
8. Mage : 649 (263,126)
9. Hunter : 786 (251,588)
10.Mage : 717 (237,408)
Just a note on gear/progression : We have only been downing Mulgar/Gruul for about 5 weeks. Have no bosses down in SSC, have not done Mag, and this was our first VR kill.
Edited, Mar 6th 2008 11:04am by compgenius
Fight Length : 8 min 18 secs
1. En Shaman : 826 (376,162)
2. En Shaman : 849 (344,135)
3. Lock : 830 (322,284)
4. Lock : 934 (304,680)
5. Rogue : 648 (289,938)
6. El Shaman : 793 (284,814)
7. Me(Mage) : 642 (266,586)
8. Mage : 649 (263,126)
9. Hunter : 786 (251,588)
10.Mage : 717 (237,408)
Just a note on gear/progression : We have only been downing Mulgar/Gruul for about 5 weeks. Have no bosses down in SSC, have not done Mag, and this was our first VR kill.
Edited, Mar 6th 2008 11:04am by compgenius
In my experience, raiding from Kara/Gruuls through the middle T5 content (SSC/TK), mages seem to fall below the hunters/warlocks/rogues in the DPS charts, roughly equivalent to a shadowpriest/balancedruid/furywarrior. (very limited exp. with shamans). Its almost like "second-class" dps.
(depends on the encounter, too... do you have to watch for spikey crits, or can you go all out, etc?)
That was before the new standard 2/48/11 build, though.
The only quality mage I've grouped with since was #1 on the DPS charts with a 50/0/11 arcane build... so I'm figuring he was an anomaly rather than typical. The other mages are still around 6-9 on the damage charts after the haste talent.
I think it depends on the skill of the player, whether they're buffing with foods/flasks, popping pots/trinkets, how they handle moving around, etc.
Also right now, our #2 DPS guy is a ret paladin, but I can't really explain him.
(depends on the encounter, too... do you have to watch for spikey crits, or can you go all out, etc?)
That was before the new standard 2/48/11 build, though.
The only quality mage I've grouped with since was #1 on the DPS charts with a 50/0/11 arcane build... so I'm figuring he was an anomaly rather than typical. The other mages are still around 6-9 on the damage charts after the haste talent.
I think it depends on the skill of the player, whether they're buffing with foods/flasks, popping pots/trinkets, how they handle moving around, etc.
Also right now, our #2 DPS guy is a ret paladin, but I can't really explain him.
I suppose part of our problem is the tanks lack of threat generation. If I (mage with around ~820spell damage, +110 spell hit) have to hold back dps quite a bit, and i'm spending a decent amount of time running from the bombs, the melee guys have to hold back some as well.
When we downed VR, we were well ahead of his enrage timer, downed him around the 7min mark.
So the lesson learned here for me is we can only go as fast as the tanks can build aggro.
When we downed VR, we were well ahead of his enrage timer, downed him around the 7min mark.
So the lesson learned here for me is we can only go as fast as the tanks can build aggro.
uzemaki wrote:
I suppose part of our problem is the tanks lack of threat generation. If I (mage with around ~820spell damage, +110 spell hit) have to hold back dps quite a bit, and i'm spending a decent amount of time running from the bombs, the melee guys have to hold back some as well.
When we downed VR, we were well ahead of his enrage timer, downed him around the 7min mark.
So the lesson learned here for me is we can only go as fast as the tanks can build aggro.
When we downed VR, we were well ahead of his enrage timer, downed him around the 7min mark.
So the lesson learned here for me is we can only go as fast as the tanks can build aggro.
definitely true. My guild can normally start pretty quickly now as everyone is geared beyond the fight, but prior to that it was a goood idea to wait about 20 seconds before really pumping out dps to let the 3/4 tanks get close to each other in aggro. After that you can go pretty hard.
We normally give the MT 11k and the 2-3 other tanks close to that as well then we let loose. Thats usually around the 20 second mark or so. About 10 seconds in I start staking my scorches and as soon as the tanks are built up I burn my trinket and Icy veins and unleash.
3 posts
wow a rogue at 600 and something dps?`when i did UB as a 63 mage i was at 600 dps. 600 and something as a rogue at level 70 is terrible
3 posts
wow a rogue at 600 and something dps?`when i did UB as a 63 mage i was at 600 dps. 600 and something as a rogue at level 70 is terrible
Hellier wrote:
wow a rogue at 600 and something dps?`when i did UB as a 63 mage i was at 600 dps. 600 and something as a rogue at level 70 is terrible
That sounds like burst DPS to me. Sustained DPS is the name of the game, friend.
450 Minimum if you're starting out.
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