Ok, so far I have been leveling my druid, and I am LOVING it. I can to huge DPS in cat form, tank like a pro, and out heal almost anyone...but I still feel a nagging to try out Shaman (I've always thought they were awesome). My question is can shamans end game put out good DPS? (Enhancement AND Elemental) By good DPS I don't mean, can they do OK damage, I mean can they rip through enemies the way DPS classes can? Or will I just be a heal bot?
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At endgame, shaman's DPS can shred through so much. However, their problem often is too much damage, as they're always near the aggro-ceiling.
Both elemental and enhancement shamans can do ridiculous amounts of damage at end game.
As Raglu said their major problem is aggro generation since they only get minor aggro reduction talents (15% for each I believe).
Enhancement shaman can solve this by "totem-twisting" tranquil air with either windfury or grace of air depending on their group.
Totem-twisting doesn't work for elemental shaman, and would be a horrible idea even if it did.
I play an elemental shaman and have been doing a lot of instances and heroics lately. I can literally wait for the tank to get 10k threat on Omen/KTM and still catch them before the end of most boss fights.
As Raglu said their major problem is aggro generation since they only get minor aggro reduction talents (15% for each I believe).
Enhancement shaman can solve this by "totem-twisting" tranquil air with either windfury or grace of air depending on their group.
Totem-twisting doesn't work for elemental shaman, and would be a horrible idea even if it did.
I play an elemental shaman and have been doing a lot of instances and heroics lately. I can literally wait for the tank to get 10k threat on Omen/KTM and still catch them before the end of most boss fights.
Totem twisting ONLY works IF your raid group places you in a party thats NOT with tanks, which usually doesn't happen.
Concidering the buffs Enh shaman's bring to melee or front line classes as far as totems are concerned, shaman with tanks can be "common" in raid setups. Which defeats twisting Tranq. tot with whatever else air tot you would swap. granted Tranq lowers threat buy about 20% (forgot the #'s off the top of my head atm). Even with BoS and the stock -30% from SW talent, "lucky" dmg spikes from WF/Auto-Attacks can push me past a tanks threat line in a blink! So even a extra -20%ish isn't a fool proof method.
Elem's really don't need aggro reduction, in the sense that the manual mechanics of casting IS the threat value, and not unpredictable like auto-attacks. Frankly after playing Elem specs for a long time...when I see threat yanked off from tanks, I know now that 9 outta 10 times...that was INTENTIONAL or IGNORANCE, and not "opps".
Concidering the buffs Enh shaman's bring to melee or front line classes as far as totems are concerned, shaman with tanks can be "common" in raid setups. Which defeats twisting Tranq. tot with whatever else air tot you would swap. granted Tranq lowers threat buy about 20% (forgot the #'s off the top of my head atm). Even with BoS and the stock -30% from SW talent, "lucky" dmg spikes from WF/Auto-Attacks can push me past a tanks threat line in a blink! So even a extra -20%ish isn't a fool proof method.
Elem's really don't need aggro reduction, in the sense that the manual mechanics of casting IS the threat value, and not unpredictable like auto-attacks. Frankly after playing Elem specs for a long time...when I see threat yanked off from tanks, I know now that 9 outta 10 times...that was INTENTIONAL or IGNORANCE, and not "opps".
I thought Totem-Twisting only works with Weapon Totems (in other words, Windfury) because Windfury Totem periodically applies a weapon buff that lasts 9 seconds whereas all other totems provide an "infinite" duration buff that is active while the totem exists and disappears the second it's gone.
So, totem twisting is Windfury Totem, weapon buff applied, and then the air totem of choice until the 9 seconds or so is almost done.
So, totem twisting is Windfury Totem, weapon buff applied, and then the air totem of choice until the 9 seconds or so is almost done.
Raglu wrote:
I thought Totem-Twisting only works with Weapon Totems (in other words, Windfury) because Windfury Totem periodically applies a weapon buff that lasts 9 seconds whereas all other totems provide an "infinite" duration buff that is active while the totem exists and disappears the second it's gone.
So, totem twisting is Windfury Totem, weapon buff applied, and then the air totem of choice until the 9 seconds or so is almost done.
So, totem twisting is Windfury Totem, weapon buff applied, and then the air totem of choice until the 9 seconds or so is almost done.
Correct.
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
As Raglu said their major problem is aggro generation since they only get minor aggro reduction talents (15% for each I believe).
Enhancement Shaman get 30% reduction from talents, Elemental gets an additional 10% on top of the default ranged reduction.
Gaudion wrote:
Enhancement Shaman get 30% reduction from talents, Elemental gets an additional 10% on top of the default ranged reduction.
To clarify, ranged doesn't have a threat reduction, but instead just has a higher ceiling.
I still have no clue how to make Enh put out good DPS. I'm pretty sure my lame *** off hand is to blame, along with a couple other weak links in my gear.
All I know is I was getting 650-750 avg DPS in heroics (and spikes as high as 1100dps for individual pulls) and now as Enh my run was ~460 DPS. Although as a heavier buffing spec, I don't really know how much of the warrior and rogue's insane DPS that run was due to my better buffs (imp GOA/SOE, UR, plus the resto shaman's WF)
Hopefully things turn around once I get a solid offhand, some weapon enchants, metagem filled, and take care of my 'weak link' gear pieces (ie mostly some very basic gear improvements). But thus far it's been really lackluster DPS compared to Elemental.
Oddly I thought this spec would kick *** in PVE and suck in PVP, but then I took it into PVP (since a Gladiator's Cleaver will solve the OH issue) and tore it up in AV after doing lackluster PVE damage. Go figure. /shrug
To more directly answer the OP's questions:
1. I've only ever done "OK" DPS as Enhancement.
2. Elemental is amazing DPS. Throughout heroics I've only ever been out-DPSed by Warlocks and the very rare Skilled Hunter.
It's hard for me to say threat is an issue. For me it's vastly preferable to have the option of doing so much damage that I could pull aggro. At that point I can tweak my damage output as needed, and with really amazing tanks I can do really amazing damage.
Edited, Mar 7th 2008 11:54am by Axehilt
All I know is I was getting 650-750 avg DPS in heroics (and spikes as high as 1100dps for individual pulls) and now as Enh my run was ~460 DPS. Although as a heavier buffing spec, I don't really know how much of the warrior and rogue's insane DPS that run was due to my better buffs (imp GOA/SOE, UR, plus the resto shaman's WF)
Hopefully things turn around once I get a solid offhand, some weapon enchants, metagem filled, and take care of my 'weak link' gear pieces (ie mostly some very basic gear improvements). But thus far it's been really lackluster DPS compared to Elemental.
Oddly I thought this spec would kick *** in PVE and suck in PVP, but then I took it into PVP (since a Gladiator's Cleaver will solve the OH issue) and tore it up in AV after doing lackluster PVE damage. Go figure. /shrug
To more directly answer the OP's questions:
1. I've only ever done "OK" DPS as Enhancement.
2. Elemental is amazing DPS. Throughout heroics I've only ever been out-DPSed by Warlocks and the very rare Skilled Hunter.
It's hard for me to say threat is an issue. For me it's vastly preferable to have the option of doing so much damage that I could pull aggro. At that point I can tweak my damage output as needed, and with really amazing tanks I can do really amazing damage.
Edited, Mar 7th 2008 11:54am by Axehilt
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Gaudion wrote:
Enhancement Shaman get 30% reduction from talents, Elemental gets an additional 10% on top of the default ranged reduction.
To clarify, ranged doesn't have a threat reduction, but instead just has a higher ceiling.
To clarify even more, ranged has a 30% on top of the tank. Melee has the 10%.
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