All right, a little background... I tried out Warsong Gulch for the first time when I hit 19 on Sunday--I'd never done a battleground before--and after the first couple times I decided to try respeccing resto for a little help with heals since I was the only one healing most of the time. It went great, though ended up only winning 1 of 7, and of course I died a lot more. heh. But I love Resto now, and I'm totally sticking with it.
Afterwards, me and my bf got a group together for Wailing Caverns (I still need those pants for my set) and we headed in. Here's where I get confused, though--the druid (who was the last party member, who we invited because we needed a tank) started whining about how how I had a shield so I could tank, and he would heal. The other group members told him that bear tanks were awesome before I could really respond, but it kind of made me wonder... who should tank in a group like that? I mean, I do have pretty decent armor, but I really prefer healing and that's what I'm specced for--though I'm aware that this early in levels it might not make too much of a difference. I probably -could- tank, if I tried, but I'm not sure how I'd keep aggro even if I kept using all my shocks...
I guess what I'm wondering is, was this guy just full of BS? Or does a resto shammy really make a better tank than a balance druid at low levels?
Edited, Mar 4th 2008 4:58pm by isyris
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a little confused... shaman role in group?Follow
45 posts
Ok will try to give you an clear answer as possible
1) Shamans hardly never ever tank (maybe when tank dies) or in cases that you have such an high dps group and an uber healing you could take a few hits ( I tanked mara with enhance + healed mara aswell as enhance)
2) On end lvls shamans are really loved as healers but they can do some pretty nasty melee and ranged dps
In short on low lvls you mostly will see a shaman dps melee or spell and on end lvl you see a lot of healers
1) Shamans hardly never ever tank (maybe when tank dies) or in cases that you have such an high dps group and an uber healing you could take a few hits ( I tanked mara with enhance + healed mara aswell as enhance)
2) On end lvls shamans are really loved as healers but they can do some pretty nasty melee and ranged dps
In short on low lvls you mostly will see a shaman dps melee or spell and on end lvl you see a lot of healers
Shamans can take a couple hits, especially with a shield.
Sure a shield helps mitigate damage, but in this case shield =/= tank.
Also this works the other way around, no shield does not mean you can't tank.
Either way, a druid makes a better tank than a shaman.
Basically that guy was full of crap and didn't know ****.
Shaman's role in a group, damage/heal + support.
Sure a shield helps mitigate damage, but in this case shield =/= tank.
Also this works the other way around, no shield does not mean you can't tank.
Either way, a druid makes a better tank than a shaman.
Basically that guy was full of crap and didn't know ****.
Shaman's role in a group, damage/heal + support.
Shaman do not tank. Ever. Under any circumstances. Period. Just because we wear mail, carry a shield (if not Enhancement), and can take a hit within reason does not mean we are a tanking class.
A Shaman only has one role in a party depending on its spec. Elemental and Enhancement Shaman DPS. That is your only job as that spec. The only time you should even be throwing off-heals is when something goes wrong: your healer dies, you pull way to many adds, etc. Resto Shaman heal. Simple as that.
Just make sure that no matter which role you find yourself in that you take it upon yourself to buff your party with totems. There is nothing more wasteful in this game than a Shaman that doesn't buff.
A Shaman only has one role in a party depending on its spec. Elemental and Enhancement Shaman DPS. That is your only job as that spec. The only time you should even be throwing off-heals is when something goes wrong: your healer dies, you pull way to many adds, etc. Resto Shaman heal. Simple as that.
Just make sure that no matter which role you find yourself in that you take it upon yourself to buff your party with totems. There is nothing more wasteful in this game than a Shaman that doesn't buff.
A resto shaman (if I understand correctly that that is your spec) cannot tank, period. A feral druid can. The druid was either another spec (unlikely at that level since feral is the default lvling spec for druids) or nuts. If you're resto you should be healing/off-healing, not tanking.
If you need to build aggro as a shamman, use frost shock, it causes additional threat. But it will be a rarity that you have to do that. I (as a 48 enhancement shammy) only use frost shock to build aggro when I want to get a mob off our healer and our tank is overwhelmed, ie, in dire emergencies.
If you need to build aggro as a shamman, use frost shock, it causes additional threat. But it will be a rarity that you have to do that. I (as a 48 enhancement shammy) only use frost shock to build aggro when I want to get a mob off our healer and our tank is overwhelmed, ie, in dire emergencies.
You guys have seriously forgotten the lower levels, haven't you?
I've seen a shaman tank everything at and below Scarlet Cathedral, and I've done one where a shaman tanked Zul'Farrak. It just takes a more competent healer-- not overgeared, not overleveled. Just competent.
Resto shaman have the least aggro generation of the three, though, and in the OP's scenario, the balance druid tanking in Bear Form is better than the resto shaman tanking WC.
I've seen a shaman tank everything at and below Scarlet Cathedral, and I've done one where a shaman tanked Zul'Farrak. It just takes a more competent healer-- not overgeared, not overleveled. Just competent.
Resto shaman have the least aggro generation of the three, though, and in the OP's scenario, the balance druid tanking in Bear Form is better than the resto shaman tanking WC.
Raglu wrote:
You guys have seriously forgotten the lower levels, haven't you?
I've seen a shaman tank everything at and below Scarlet Cathedral, and I've done one where a shaman tanked Zul'Farrak. It just takes a more competent healer-- not overgeared, not overleveled. Just competent.
I've seen a shaman tank everything at and below Scarlet Cathedral, and I've done one where a shaman tanked Zul'Farrak. It just takes a more competent healer-- not overgeared, not overleveled. Just competent.
Lower levels are the lower levels. There is no point in getting used to doing something that you are not going to do at all post-60. Competence has nothing to do with it. Even if you can conceivably get through an instance with the Shaman tanking, that still doesn't mean it's a good idea. When tanking on my Warrior with a competent party I could blow through any wing of SM in 15-20 minutes even when allowing for delays, bouts of AFK, etc. And I'm not talking about overgeared or overleveled either; just competent. That's not happening with a Shaman tank.
First rule of habit-forming is to... well... Just get used to healing and DPS-ing and leave it at that.
Raglu wrote:
You guys have seriously forgotten the lower levels, haven't you?
I've seen a shaman tank everything at and below Scarlet Cathedral, and I've done one where a shaman tanked Zul'Farrak. It just takes a more competent healer-- not overgeared, not overleveled. Just competent.
I've seen a shaman tank everything at and below Scarlet Cathedral, and I've done one where a shaman tanked Zul'Farrak. It just takes a more competent healer-- not overgeared, not overleveled. Just competent.
IIRC a shaman just tanked Kara.
Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's a good idea though.
isyris wrote:
I guess what I'm wondering is, was this guy just full of BS? Or does a resto shammy really make a better tank than a balance druid at low levels?
This question regards low levels. The question was about Wailing Caverns.
No one said, "Yeah, by all means, shaman can be great tanks at all levels! Go ahead and spec 5 points into Shield Specialization and roll on gear with Defense Rating!"
Habit-forming? You think that if a shaman tanks Armory because the group can't find a warrior or druid who's willing to go, the shaman will start forming a habit and go on some insane tanking binge, refusing to do anything but tank for instances at level 70?
For the record, a level 25 fury warrior isn't that much better of a tank than a level 25 shaman with a shield.
The statement "Shaman do not tank. Ever. Under any circumstances. Period." is simply incorrect. Shaman can tank at low levels when needed. They are just not as good as having a warrior or druid or paladin in a low-level instance. And once they reach their higher levels, the fact that they are not a tanking class THEN shows up, and so THEN it can be said that, "No, shaman cannot tank Scholomance."
There's a difference between optimal and viable.
I take it back. At lower levels, shaman are viable tanks.
Edited, Mar 4th 2008 8:40pm by Raglu
Celcio wrote:
Raglu wrote:
You guys have seriously forgotten the lower levels, haven't you?
I've seen a shaman tank everything at and below Scarlet Cathedral, and I've done one where a shaman tanked Zul'Farrak. It just takes a more competent healer-- not overgeared, not overleveled. Just competent.
I've seen a shaman tank everything at and below Scarlet Cathedral, and I've done one where a shaman tanked Zul'Farrak. It just takes a more competent healer-- not overgeared, not overleveled. Just competent.
IIRC a shaman just tanked Kara.
Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's a good idea though.
There's an epidemic of reading-and-exaggerating-meaning going on in these forums, isn't there? Karazhan is not the lower levels. Karazhan can only be tanked by a shaman (yes, you did recall correctly) when the entire group is overgeared. At low levels, the shaman can tank without being overgeared, but must be more competent, as there are no safety buttons.
Raglu wrote:
isyris wrote:
I guess what I'm wondering is, was this guy just full of BS? Or does a resto shammy really make a better tank than a balance druid at low levels?
This question regards low levels. The question was about Wailing Caverns.
The question was also about druids, not warriors as you spun off talking about.
The short reply is: No, shaman are not better tanks at low levels than druids even if the druid is off-spec.
Celcio wrote:
Raglu wrote:
isyris wrote:
I guess what I'm wondering is, was this guy just full of BS? Or does a resto shammy really make a better tank than a balance druid at low levels?
This question regards low levels. The question was about Wailing Caverns.
The question was also about druids, not warriors as you spun off talking about.
The short reply is: No, shaman are not better tanks at low levels than druids even if the druid is off-spec.
Raglu wrote:
and in the OP's scenario, the balance druid tanking in Bear Form is better than the resto shaman tanking WC.
Raglu wrote:
Celcio wrote:
Raglu wrote:
isyris wrote:
I guess what I'm wondering is, was this guy just full of BS? Or does a resto shammy really make a better tank than a balance druid at low levels?
This question regards low levels. The question was about Wailing Caverns.
The question was also about druids, not warriors as you spun off talking about.
The short reply is: No, shaman are not better tanks at low levels than druids even if the druid is off-spec.
Raglu wrote:
and in the OP's scenario, the balance druid tanking in Bear Form is better than the resto shaman tanking WC.
Oh wait, now do I quote your post where you spun off talking about warriors?
I'm just wondering if that's the game we're playing.
Celcio wrote:
Oh wait, now do I quote your post where you spun off talking about warriors?
I'm just wondering if that's the game we're playing.
Well, I could quote the part where Gaudion started talking about his warrior, which happened before I started spinning off about warriors.
Raglu wrote:
Celcio wrote:
Oh wait, now do I quote your post where you spun off talking about warriors?
I'm just wondering if that's the game we're playing.
Well, I could quote the part where Gaudion started talking about his warrior, which happened before I started spinning off about warriors.
Oh yeah the posts before you told him to stay on topic and what the topic was...
Celcio wrote:
Oh yeah the posts before you told him to stay on topic and what the topic was...
"This question is about low levels" was a sentence for emphasis, that the subject at hand was about how well the shaman could do at tanking at low levels, while Gaudion was in his post dismissing, "Lower levels are lower levels" as if they had no bearing on the subject. It was not pointedly going, "hay guyz your irrelevant".
I have accedently tanked SP before. The warrior couldn't hold aggro as he was 61 and with all the mobs pounding on him I healed so much that I had more threat than he did. It was rather amusing. Earth Shield FTW!
ya....
from WC to St i was a tank, my gear fell behind after that, and at 60 I worked on my gear and managed to tank all the level 60 instances except UBRS in stam gear.
Scholo was my favorite, but tanking the new outlands instances is a bit tougher, although after dinging 70 I have gone back well over geared and tanked just about every outlands instance non heroic including SH was a blast.
are we tanks? no, is it possible, with gear sure, is it recommended, no, is it fun, sure if you like messing around =P
at lower levels tanking is also very simple for a shaman as long as you have enough dps, I will also say if thats what your not interested in doing then don't, if you want to heal just heal and tell the druid to stop being a girl.
from WC to St i was a tank, my gear fell behind after that, and at 60 I worked on my gear and managed to tank all the level 60 instances except UBRS in stam gear.
Scholo was my favorite, but tanking the new outlands instances is a bit tougher, although after dinging 70 I have gone back well over geared and tanked just about every outlands instance non heroic including SH was a blast.
are we tanks? no, is it possible, with gear sure, is it recommended, no, is it fun, sure if you like messing around =P
at lower levels tanking is also very simple for a shaman as long as you have enough dps, I will also say if thats what your not interested in doing then don't, if you want to heal just heal and tell the druid to stop being a girl.
my warrior heals on phase 3 of zul'jin when hes prot specced. true story; all i do is run by ZJ every 15s or so to keep sunder refreshed. otherwise im the raids bandage bot.
see! warriorz can has heel 2!
gosh i miss alamo.
Edited, Mar 5th 2008 2:30am by Quor
see! warriorz can has heel 2!
gosh i miss alamo.
Edited, Mar 5th 2008 2:30am by Quor
Shaman should not tank. Just leave it at that.
All right, so I -can- tank in cases of dire emergency, but in all other cases it's best to leave it to the other classes?
Thanks a bunch for explaining that for me, you guys. :) I think if I run into that druid again or anyone like him I know enough to be a little more assertive without feeling bad about it.
Thanks a bunch for explaining that for me, you guys. :) I think if I run into that druid again or anyone like him I know enough to be a little more assertive without feeling bad about it.
You got it. You can tank in emergencies but a druid is almost always better. As is a warrior or a pally, of any spec, especially at lower lvls. Arguably a hunter pet or lock's voidwalker is better, too.
13 posts
I'm leveling my alt Shammy (Enhance) and I find that I can tank if I have to, but I prefer support, especially wearing leather at level 19. I am twinked out (WoW Armory: Kiwiyana) thanks to my other 70s professions and my husbands 70 paladin running me thru things, so I can pretty much dish out as much as I can take in PvE, HOWEVER, since my husband has a 70 druid and I a 70 hunter, I KNOW my husband's feral druid can and will out tank a Shaman in PvE at all levels.
If that were me, I would have told that druid "Either respec to healing or get your sorry *** in there and PLAY THE GAME the way you CHOSE to spec because *I* chose to heal ..."
Edited, Mar 6th 2008 12:00pm by katbrat
If that were me, I would have told that druid "Either respec to healing or get your sorry *** in there and PLAY THE GAME the way you CHOSE to spec because *I* chose to heal ..."
Edited, Mar 6th 2008 12:00pm by katbrat
isyris wrote:
All right, so I -can- tank in cases of dire emergency, but in all other cases it's best to leave it to the other classes?
Thanks a bunch for explaining that for me, you guys. :) I think if I run into that druid again or anyone like him I know enough to be a little more assertive without feeling bad about it.
Thanks a bunch for explaining that for me, you guys. :) I think if I run into that druid again or anyone like him I know enough to be a little more assertive without feeling bad about it.
Up to about Zul'Farrak, you can do pretty much whatever you want in a dungeon with whatever class combination you can mash together and as long as everyone in the group is semi-competant, you'll do OK. That starts to change with ZF and onwards, right up until you reach Outland.
Starting with Hellfire Ramparts (the first Outland dungeon) and moving onwards, the class roles are refined and refusing to observe those roles is a recipe for a wipe.
If you're talking dungeons like RFC and WC, you don't even really need a tank, and most player don't play like there's a tank in the party anyways. They just pick a mob and start pounding on it.
That having been seen, as others have said, shield does not define tank. I prefer to nip ignorance in the bud early on, so in the case of a druid in a lowbie instance saying that you can tank, I would have set him straight. I've been asked if I could tank Blood Furnace as a 62 Shaman...which is a big fat no. In this case, the person was quite reasonable and asked if I was able to tank it, as opposed to trying to convince me that I could.
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