Thats my question. What is a good OT spec for kara? I didn't see anything the stickes about it, and I'm at a total loss as to what my spec should be. Im thinking that I should go some sort of Fury/Prot thing, so that I can still tank the trash in kara, and be able to do semi decent DPS on the bosses. Right now my gear is a mix of fury and prot gear from Xordon's sticky, so that if for any reason the tank dies, ill be able to pick up and not get two shotted.
Thanks for the help.
::EDIT::
Fixed Fury/Prot build after I thought about it for a little.
Edited, Mar 2nd 2008 2:21pm by Scynadumos
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Kara OT SpecFollow
Perfectly viable OT spec.
Get uncrittable and 12k hp unbuffed through gear only. You're better to the raid if you're DPS specced than gimped with hybrid. The trash hits for weaksauce until you reach the mobs before Opera. You'll be able to be 2nd on aggro list by DPS:ing in your prot gear but with no shield and defensive stance.
You can go with an MS spec or a 2h fury spec too. With 2h, you won't be able to DW and spam Devastate to keep 2nd on aggro though.
Get uncrittable and 12k hp unbuffed through gear only. You're better to the raid if you're DPS specced than gimped with hybrid. The trash hits for weaksauce until you reach the mobs before Opera. You'll be able to be 2nd on aggro list by DPS:ing in your prot gear but with no shield and defensive stance.
You can go with an MS spec or a 2h fury spec too. With 2h, you won't be able to DW and spam Devastate to keep 2nd on aggro though.
Utarius, I'd max out Unbridled Wrath, drop Demo Shout, a point in Commanding Presence to get maxed out Precision and then drop Improved Charge and Imp. Heroic, max out Deflection and put the rest in Iron Will.
What I did as OT was go 5/41/15 or This. You lose Improved Whirlwind, Deep Wounds, Impale, Anger Management, and 2 points in Imp DW but you gain 15% threat ,6 expertise (which is nice for dps too), Last Stand in case you get in trouble, 20 defense skill, and improved shield block/ shield spec. That way I was able to OT in full blues and still do fine. If you've got a near-full set from kara tanking drops, just stay your normal build and throw that on (You could put 5 points in anticipation and drop something, but that's only if you don't have 490 def)
What I did as OT was go 5/41/15 or This. You lose Improved Whirlwind, Deep Wounds, Impale, Anger Management, and 2 points in Imp DW but you gain 15% threat ,6 expertise (which is nice for dps too), Last Stand in case you get in trouble, 20 defense skill, and improved shield block/ shield spec. That way I was able to OT in full blues and still do fine. If you've got a near-full set from kara tanking drops, just stay your normal build and throw that on (You could put 5 points in anticipation and drop something, but that's only if you don't have 490 def)
There is no need to spec anything into prot to OT in kara. 17/44/0 is the preferred build for d/w in kara. Unless you have a lock, then 5/5 imp demo shout for curse of recklessness.
The reason that IDS > UW, is that UW is rather weak sauce when it comes to actual performance. IDS provides raid support, 2/5 is enough to reduce mob AP to basically zero, without any other assistance. You can Demo shout in berserker stance, and provide your tank with the option to not use a GCD (and maybe miss a few moments on a rotation) on demo shout and focus on Threat (devastate > demo shout for threat). It's just another debuff the tank doesn't have to remember to re-apply.
With a Lock casting CoR you bump up the mobs AP a bit, and 5/5 IDS reduces the extra amount back down to basically zero.
Mobs gain a considerable more amount of DPS from AP than players do, and considering that they only have 350 AP, reducing that DPS can mean quite a bit of a reduction to incoming tank damage.
If you prefer 2h (although many mobs in Kara are IMMUNE to bleed effects and thereby make the 4% extra physical raid dps spec not as worth it 33/28/0) then go with a 31/30/0 build or something close to it.
::EDIT::
The reason you don't need exactally 490+ defense skill while OTing is simple. You wont be tanking BOSS (Level 73) mobs. You will be at most tanking Level 72 Trash mobs. And you'll need 485+ defense skill to be uncrittable.
I suggest if you have it, putting resilience gear on to supplement, to get yourself to un-crit-able. Specifically the PvP reward gear (arena, vindicator's). They stack alot of stamina and armor on those things, and make it easy to still do some DPS. Just get yourself a good shield when you have the DKP, and have the option to get it.
Edited, Mar 2nd 2008 8:59pm by devioususer
The reason that IDS > UW, is that UW is rather weak sauce when it comes to actual performance. IDS provides raid support, 2/5 is enough to reduce mob AP to basically zero, without any other assistance. You can Demo shout in berserker stance, and provide your tank with the option to not use a GCD (and maybe miss a few moments on a rotation) on demo shout and focus on Threat (devastate > demo shout for threat). It's just another debuff the tank doesn't have to remember to re-apply.
With a Lock casting CoR you bump up the mobs AP a bit, and 5/5 IDS reduces the extra amount back down to basically zero.
Mobs gain a considerable more amount of DPS from AP than players do, and considering that they only have 350 AP, reducing that DPS can mean quite a bit of a reduction to incoming tank damage.
If you prefer 2h (although many mobs in Kara are IMMUNE to bleed effects and thereby make the 4% extra physical raid dps spec not as worth it 33/28/0) then go with a 31/30/0 build or something close to it.
::EDIT::
The reason you don't need exactally 490+ defense skill while OTing is simple. You wont be tanking BOSS (Level 73) mobs. You will be at most tanking Level 72 Trash mobs. And you'll need 485+ defense skill to be uncrittable.
I suggest if you have it, putting resilience gear on to supplement, to get yourself to un-crit-able. Specifically the PvP reward gear (arena, vindicator's). They stack alot of stamina and armor on those things, and make it easy to still do some DPS. Just get yourself a good shield when you have the DKP, and have the option to get it.
Edited, Mar 2nd 2008 8:59pm by devioususer
Danteter wrote:
Utarius, I'd max out Unbridled Wrath
Depending on the speed of your weapons, you won't be needing maxed UW. If you're going WW setup with two very slow weapons, 3 points should be enough to yield a rage point every time you strike.
Danteter wrote:
drop Demo Shout
If you put two points in Imp. Demo. Shout, you've capped the AP reduc for raid bosses. This is quite a utility, since maintank builds rarely have the points to spare for this talent.
Danteter wrote:
a point in Commanding Presence to get maxed out Precision
Hit cap is extremely easy to get in DPS gear, and while tanking the two extra percent of hit gives you enough hit to be able to cap it in tanking gear as well. I do see your point though, but if I were to max it I'd take points out of Imp. WW. Warriors having GCD's, which are based on 1.5 sec, it'd be better to have a 9 sec WW CD than a 8 sec WW CD, mainly because 9 divided by 1.5 yields an equal number.
This, however, is only good in the case where you use ALL your GCD's. I don't, as a DPS warrior. I do as DPS:ing while prot, due to Devastate, but if specced that way Imp. WW is out of the question anyway. I've yet to see a DPS warrior using all his GCD's without refreshing unnecessarily, thus wasting rage.
Danteter wrote:
and then drop Improved Charge and Imp. Heroic, max out Deflection and put the rest in Iron Will.
Deflection is maxed... and I wouldn't spec Iron Will in a tank build in a hurry. It's a PvP talent. Has some uses in PvE, but that's mainly heroics; not raids.
Danteter wrote:
What I did as OT was go 5/41/15 or This. You lose Improved Whirlwind, Deep Wounds, Impale, Anger Management, and 2 points in Imp DW but you gain 15% threat ,6 expertise (which is nice for dps too), Last Stand in case you get in trouble, 20 defense skill, and improved shield block/ shield spec. That way I was able to OT in full blues and still do fine. If you've got a near-full set from kara tanking drops, just stay your normal build and throw that on (You could put 5 points in anticipation and drop something, but that's only if you don't have 490 def)
I'm able to OT in full blues as fury or arms. What you have to see as an offtank, is that you won't be shield slamming very much if you know what you're up to. To stay highest on threat you'll want to DPS in tanking gear and defensive stance, using dual wield in my case. If the MT should die, you just equip your shield and tank as usual. The main reason for this way of tanking is you don't have enough rage to use shield slam and devastate AND be 2nd on the threat meter.
I see your points here. I just don't agree.
Quote:
Unless you have a lock, then 5/5 imp demo shout for curse of recklessness.
Come again?
I offtanked Karazhan last night. I'm 33 / 25 / 3 for PVP. I was mostly wearing my pvp gear, I'm mace spec, and I did fine. Came in 3rd on dps and my only deaths were from pulling aggro when I got a little trigger happy, never when I was tanking anything. I even main tanked Maiden since we had a pally main tank and the group wanted him to cleanse those debuffs.
The idea that you need to mix in dps and prot talents to be a good main tank is strange to me, especially in Karazhan. In Karazhan, you do not need a single point in prot to offtank. I have my 3 in tactical mastery for pvp.
The idea that you need to mix in dps and prot talents to be a good main tank is strange to me, especially in Karazhan. In Karazhan, you do not need a single point in prot to offtank. I have my 3 in tactical mastery for pvp.
Utarius wrote:
What you have to see as an offtank, is that you won't be shield slamming very much if you know what you're up to. To stay highest on threat you'll want to DPS in tanking gear and defensive stance, using dual wield in my case. If the MT should die, you just equip your shield and tank as usual. The main reason for this way of tanking is you don't have enough rage to use shield slam and devastate AND be 2nd on the threat meter.
also, since you're offtanking a mob, you will have plenty of lead time to build threat while dps burns down the main-tanked mob.
Utarius - i've never tried that approach to OT'ing, i've always worn my full tanking set with shield and a 5/41/15 spec. i always figured i needed to save my healer the trouble of healing through that damage, since without my shield now i'd be sitting at <10k armor (14.8k armor with shield and the 10% armor bonus from full points in toughness).
fromanthebarbarian wrote:
Utarius wrote:
What you have to see as an offtank, is that you won't be shield slamming very much if you know what you're up to. To stay highest on threat you'll want to DPS in tanking gear and defensive stance, using dual wield in my case. If the MT should die, you just equip your shield and tank as usual. The main reason for this way of tanking is you don't have enough rage to use shield slam and devastate AND be 2nd on the threat meter.
also, since you're offtanking a mob, you will have plenty of lead time to build threat while dps burns down the main-tanked mob.
Utarius - i've never tried that approach to OT'ing, i've always worn my full tanking set with shield and a 5/41/15 spec. i always figured i needed to save my healer the trouble of healing through that damage, since without my shield now i'd be sitting at <10k armor (14.8k armor with shield and the 10% armor bonus from full points in toughness).
What I wear while offtanking depends on what I'm tanking. When I offtanked Netherspite, I wore my entire tank set. When I offtanked Curator, I wore my dps set and just made sure I stayed second on threat. Heck, I even killed a few flares for fun. For trash, I generally wear my dps set and throw on my shield and axe. That way when my mob dies, I can switch to the mobs the main tank is fighting and do some damage immediately.
fromanthebarbarian wrote:
Utarius - i've never tried that approach to OT'ing, i've always worn my full tanking set with shield and a 5/41/15 spec. i always figured i needed to save my healer the trouble of healing through that damage, since without my shield now i'd be sitting at <10k armor (14.8k armor with shield and the 10% armor bonus from full points in toughness).
Of course, this is when you're tanking a boss and need to stay 2nd on threat. If you're OT:ing mobs you should just use shield, since you're being fed rage through incoming damage anyway. If you're OT:ing a boss you're most certainly not getting hit, and therefore DW Devastate spamming will yield more rage and more threat than 1h and shield slamming.
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