Someone explain to me how much resilience it would take to be uncrittable against a 73 mob. It's probably not possible, but how close can you get?
It takes 143 defense rating in addition to the 350 base defense to be uncrittable. I'm curious how resilience can stack onto the 350 base.
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resilience vs defense ratingFollow
You actually need 336 ADDITIONAL *Defense Rating* to become uncritable against a level 73 mob.
336 defense rating = 140 Defense Skill @ 70 + 350 = 490
I don't have the EXACT numbers infront of me.. but it takes close to 40 *Resilience Rating* (just under I think) to reduce your chance to be crit by 1%.
So.. since a 73 has a 5.6% chance to crit you, you'd need about 224 *Resilience Rating* assuming you have *no* defense (beyond 350) helping you.
If I'm not off my rockers...
Edit: And you'd get SOOOOO much more out of getting that extra 140 defense rather than stop-gapping a HUGE defense gap with resilience anyway.
Edit: To remove an erroneous statement. Thanks for the correction.
Edited, Mar 1st 2008 11:40pm by Losie
Edited, Mar 2nd 2008 10:54pm by Losie
336 defense rating = 140 Defense Skill @ 70 + 350 = 490
I don't have the EXACT numbers infront of me.. but it takes close to 40 *Resilience Rating* (just under I think) to reduce your chance to be crit by 1%.
So.. since a 73 has a 5.6% chance to crit you, you'd need about 224 *Resilience Rating* assuming you have *no* defense (beyond 350) helping you.
If I'm not off my rockers...
Edit: And you'd get SOOOOO much more out of getting that extra 140 defense rather than stop-gapping a HUGE defense gap with resilience anyway.
Edit: To remove an erroneous statement. Thanks for the correction.
Edited, Mar 1st 2008 11:40pm by Losie
Edited, Mar 2nd 2008 10:54pm by Losie
Translation of that last sentence: Resil does nothing for your avoidance, just crits, where Defense adds to you Dodge/Parry/Block/Miss as well. For a Paladin and Warrior Defense will always beat Resil for PvE. Druids are a different story, but this isn't their forum, so I won't go there :P
Maulgak wrote:
Druids are a different story, but this isn't their forum, so I won't go there :P
It's alright, I doubt someone's gonna shoot you for it. ;P
Druids can use some resilience to be uncrittable in the early stages of tanking. Defense skill increases Dodge chance, Parry chance, and Block chance. Druids cannot Parry nor Block.
Losie wrote:
I don't have the EXACT numbers infront of me.. but it takes close to 40 *Resilience Rating* (just under I think) to reduce your chance to be crit by 1%.
So.. since a 73 has a 5.6% chance to crit you, you'd need about 224 *Resilience Rating* assuming you have *no* defense helping you.
At 350 defense you'd have 3.8% reduction. So I'd think you'd need 72 Resilience Rating.
So.. since a 73 has a 5.6% chance to crit you, you'd need about 224 *Resilience Rating* assuming you have *no* defense helping you.
At 350 defense you'd have 3.8% reduction. So I'd think you'd need 72 Resilience Rating.
350 defense provides no crit reduction against a level 73 mob, that's the standard base defense you need. You would still need 5.6% crit reduction beyond that point, or roughly 224 resilience.
Though you're going to get crushed like there's no tomorrow...
As a prot pally if you are using Resilience to reach the uncrittable gap, you fail.
I know that sounds like a terribly elitist thing to say, but I tend to not sugar coat somethings when it is the God's honest truth.
I know that sounds like a terribly elitist thing to say, but I tend to not sugar coat somethings when it is the God's honest truth.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
bodhisattva wrote:
As a prot pally if you are using Resilience to reach the uncrittable gap, you fail.
I know that sounds like a terribly elitist thing to say, but I tend to not sugar coat somethings when it is the God's honest truth.
I know that sounds like a terribly elitist thing to say, but I tend to not sugar coat somethings when it is the God's honest truth.
That looks sugar coated to me >.>
If someone is trying to level an endgame prot pally with resil... for PVE? ohh boy -.-
Kz
Killzon wrote:
bodhisattva wrote:
As a prot pally if you are using Resilience to reach the uncrittable gap, you fail.
I know that sounds like a terribly elitist thing to say, but I tend to not sugar coat somethings when it is the God's honest truth.
I know that sounds like a terribly elitist thing to say, but I tend to not sugar coat somethings when it is the God's honest truth.
That looks sugar coated to me >.>
If someone is trying to level an endgame prot pally with resil... for PVE? ohh boy -.-
Kz
Alight allow me to amend my previous statement.
If you are using Resilience as a Prot Pally to cross the uncrittable Gap you absolutely fracking fail at WoW, tanking and life to such an epic extent that it is absolutely impossible to wrap ones mind around it
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
bodhisattva wrote:
Alight allow me to amend my previous statement.
If you are using Resilience as a Prot Pally to cross the uncrittable Gap you absolutely fracking fail at WoW, tanking and life to such an epic extent that it is absolutely impossible to wrap ones mind around it
If you are using Resilience as a Prot Pally to cross the uncrittable Gap you absolutely fracking fail at WoW, tanking and life to such an epic extent that it is absolutely impossible to wrap ones mind around it
Amended =) ...and very well put!
...and the survey says!? Please don't use resil to become uncrittable.
Kz
bodhisattva wrote:
Killzon wrote:
bodhisattva wrote:
As a prot pally if you are using Resilience to reach the uncrittable gap, you fail.
I know that sounds like a terribly elitist thing to say, but I tend to not sugar coat somethings when it is the God's honest truth.
I know that sounds like a terribly elitist thing to say, but I tend to not sugar coat somethings when it is the God's honest truth.
That looks sugar coated to me >.>
If someone is trying to level an endgame prot pally with resil... for PVE? ohh boy -.-
Kz
Alight allow me to amend my previous statement.
If you are using Resilience as a Prot Pally to cross the uncrittable Gap you absolutely fracking fail at WoW, tanking and life to such an epic extent that it is absolutely impossible to wrap ones mind around it
For a short time I used some resilience items to get me through the crit gap for normal 5-man tanking. I still think that was the right choice at that level. However, anyone looking for heroic/raid tanking should be uncrittable without resilience, yes.
However, I don't think I fail, considering that my prot pally, which is just an alt, is successfully tanking in Mount Hyjal and just got attuned for Black Temple tonight. :)
I definitly agree that stop-gapping a *small* defense gap with resilience when you have a plan to achieve uncritable through defense is alright.
Trying to stop-gap 5.6% crit reduction with resilience (as the original question suggested) is just plain silly. Especially when there is no plan to replace that with defense in the near future.
Trying to stop-gap 5.6% crit reduction with resilience (as the original question suggested) is just plain silly. Especially when there is no plan to replace that with defense in the near future.
Scholar
30 posts
Thanks all for your input and most humble of criticisms. I was prot lvling and for first couple months of being 70 almost a year ago. I've been holy pretty much since. I was in no means trying to main tank a 25 man or anything. I wonder if i couldn't tank most of Kara as holy though, ya I'd get hit hard alot, but meh, I bet it's possible. But that's not even my goal, though would be fun to try. I OT Kara quite frequently as third healer, and OT through trash, opera, huntsman, Illhoof adds if lacking a lock, etc.. when needed. I end up half holding my target and half healing myself. I'm usually specced typical 41/20 arena build with improved Righteous Fury, so threat is huge, especially with 1k spell dmg from complete Merc+ Lamellar set.
I have no holy shield, so being uncrushable is impossible, but sounds like I'm well passed the uncritable point with 350 resilience.
I've started building up a tank set from what I can, in hopes of being able to spec protection and tank higher content on occasion, or maybe just mix some avoidance with resilience to be slightly less squishy. I chanted/ gemmed up what I had last night and, as 41/20 holy spec sat at 12,600hp, around 9%dodge, 10%parry, and 15%block. 417 def, 195 resil, 600 spell dmg. I'm sure I'll have a full prot suit soon, then I'll have to respec for awhile and do some ZA or maybe a 25 in a tank slot.
I have no holy shield, so being uncrushable is impossible, but sounds like I'm well passed the uncritable point with 350 resilience.
I've started building up a tank set from what I can, in hopes of being able to spec protection and tank higher content on occasion, or maybe just mix some avoidance with resilience to be slightly less squishy. I chanted/ gemmed up what I had last night and, as 41/20 holy spec sat at 12,600hp, around 9%dodge, 10%parry, and 15%block. 417 def, 195 resil, 600 spell dmg. I'm sure I'll have a full prot suit soon, then I'll have to respec for awhile and do some ZA or maybe a 25 in a tank slot.
OT and MT are way different things. as OT you'd be better off just stacking hp and armor. as MT you will get 2-3 shotted unless you have lots of avoidance. some bosses like Nightbane require you to fully dodge big attacks instead of just blocking some of the damage, making druids awesome. however, take Prince, without the max avoidance from using a Holy Shield-like ability druids get eaten up by a couple crushing blows.
on the note of +resil, +stam, and threat i found the most fantastically bad epic trinket: Timelapse Shard
on the note of +resil, +stam, and threat i found the most fantastically bad epic trinket: Timelapse Shard
Pallyhu wrote:
Thanks all for your input and most humble of criticisms. I was prot lvling and for first couple months of being 70 almost a year ago. I've been holy pretty much since. I was in no means trying to main tank a 25 man or anything. I wonder if i couldn't tank most of Kara as holy though, ya I'd get hit hard alot, but meh, I bet it's possible. But that's not even my goal, though would be fun to try. I OT Kara quite frequently as third healer, and OT through trash, opera, huntsman, Illhoof adds if lacking a lock, etc.. when needed. I end up half holding my target and half healing myself. I'm usually specced typical 41/20 arena build with improved Righteous Fury, so threat is huge, especially with 1k spell dmg from complete Merc+ Lamellar set.
I have no holy shield, so being uncrushable is impossible, but sounds like I'm well passed the uncritable point with 350 resilience.
I've started building up a tank set from what I can, in hopes of being able to spec protection and tank higher content on occasion, or maybe just mix some avoidance with resilience to be slightly less squishy. I chanted/ gemmed up what I had last night and, as 41/20 holy spec sat at 12,600hp, around 9%dodge, 10%parry, and 15%block. 417 def, 195 resil, 600 spell dmg. I'm sure I'll have a full prot suit soon, then I'll have to respec for awhile and do some ZA or maybe a 25 in a tank slot.
I have no holy shield, so being uncrushable is impossible, but sounds like I'm well passed the uncritable point with 350 resilience.
I've started building up a tank set from what I can, in hopes of being able to spec protection and tank higher content on occasion, or maybe just mix some avoidance with resilience to be slightly less squishy. I chanted/ gemmed up what I had last night and, as 41/20 holy spec sat at 12,600hp, around 9%dodge, 10%parry, and 15%block. 417 def, 195 resil, 600 spell dmg. I'm sure I'll have a full prot suit soon, then I'll have to respec for awhile and do some ZA or maybe a 25 in a tank slot.
Thing about MT'n kara is, when your uncrushable (which IS the tougher of the two to reach) you'll help with more predictable damage. So, figure your MTing and one healer is doing just fine... then BOOM that healer falls behind & "poof" your gone. That is most likely what crushing blows will do. Being a healer I'd imagine you've been there already, wondering why it was so tough staying on top of the tanks health bar. One second your flashes are plenty.. the next your spamming HL and still cant get it back into control... that's why MTs need uncrushable/uncritable.
Quote:
on the note of +resil, +stam, and threat i found the most fantastically bad epic trinket: Timelapse Shard
O.o that is a bit conflicting isn't it? Maybe it's for the lazy folks that don't like swapping out trinkets from PVP to PVE.
Scholar
30 posts
Woot, got a Tommyguns reply in there. I would love to be ret, I really don't understand why I have never raided with one. Anyway, I just changed guilds. The old one crapped out, we had 4/6 SSC, primarily because our pally MT quit. I'm building gear atm. I still wonder if i could MT Kara as holy, yet to be seen. I understand comletely, healing a tank taking the kind of damage i would take would frustrate me. But.. ok.. I'm already no where near uncrushable right.. so.. I grab some aggro (which is huge with some major spell dmg) then spam heal myself, throw consecrate and the occasional JoR and we're good. I haven't tanked either Nightbane or Netherspite, but I wonder. Far from ideal i know, just kinda fun thing or maybe a last resort, idunno. You get enough people geared enough and Kara is a joke, but again I haven't tanked it, or have I seen a half ***/hybrid toon tank do it, just curious to try.
I would love to do a Kara ten man pally run....
Ok, here's my character
Bhalansz on Zuljin , would love to have some pallies to do it with.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Zul%27jin&n=Bhalansz there's my attempt at a link, I'll ask more if that doesn't work. Either way, find me on Zuljin, and we 10 pally Kara, you know you want to.. :)
Cool, it worked, ok let's do it.
Edited, Mar 7th 2008 6:57am by Pallyhu
Edited, Mar 7th 2008 6:59am by Pallyhu
Edited, Mar 7th 2008 7:00am by Pallyhu
I would love to do a Kara ten man pally run....
Ok, here's my character
Bhalansz on Zuljin , would love to have some pallies to do it with.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Zul%27jin&n=Bhalansz there's my attempt at a link, I'll ask more if that doesn't work. Either way, find me on Zuljin, and we 10 pally Kara, you know you want to.. :)
Cool, it worked, ok let's do it.
Edited, Mar 7th 2008 6:57am by Pallyhu
Edited, Mar 7th 2008 6:59am by Pallyhu
Edited, Mar 7th 2008 7:00am by Pallyhu
Your heals do a quarter threat of what you are actually healing. So if you are trying to hold aggro with just your heals and consecration, your DPS are going to hate you.
3 posts
But say, for example, you are already uncritable and you pick up some gear that happens to have +resilience on it. Now, you wouldn't have to be at 490 defense anymore to take advantage of that.
You'd be free to gem or enchant up pure avoidance, like parry or dodge, to make hitting uncrushable more easily.
Is there a conversion chart out there somewhere that says if you have X res at lvl 70, you can have Y def and still remain uncritable?
You'd be free to gem or enchant up pure avoidance, like parry or dodge, to make hitting uncrushable more easily.
Is there a conversion chart out there somewhere that says if you have X res at lvl 70, you can have Y def and still remain uncritable?
There is very little PvE gear with resilience on it that goes with tanking.
The PvP gear, notably arena epics are absolute fail when it comes to tanking.
Once again, small small amounts used when bridging the gap, only to be replaced as fast as humanly possible is embarrassing but you have to do what you have to do. Having more than say, 25 res on your tanking gear officially gets you entered into the "Worst prot pally evar" category on the 2008 list if Epic Suck. I am being lenient with 25 res.
Edited, Mar 15th 2008 6:40pm by bodhisattva
The PvP gear, notably arena epics are absolute fail when it comes to tanking.
Once again, small small amounts used when bridging the gap, only to be replaced as fast as humanly possible is embarrassing but you have to do what you have to do. Having more than say, 25 res on your tanking gear officially gets you entered into the "Worst prot pally evar" category on the 2008 list if Epic Suck. I am being lenient with 25 res.
Edited, Mar 15th 2008 6:40pm by bodhisattva
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
tommyguns wrote:
OT and MT are way different things. as OT you'd be better off just stacking hp and armor.
Lol... What? No... no. Just... no.
3 posts
25? Seriously?
Gladiator's Gavel and Seal of Danzalar together give me 39 res. Didn't think that would qualify one for the Epic Fail list.
Gladiator's Gavel and Seal of Danzalar together give me 39 res. Didn't think that would qualify one for the Epic Fail list.
Seal of Danzalar (which I have, as well as the better one for healing) really isn't much of a tanking ring, other than the fact that it has stam on it.
The gavel is acceptable since other than the Crystalforge sword there is no real Pally tanking weapon until ZA or trash drops off Hyjal.
The gavel is acceptable since other than the Crystalforge sword there is no real Pally tanking weapon until ZA or trash drops off Hyjal.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
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