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Combat to Hybrid?Follow

#1 Feb 29 2008 at 6:51 AM Rating: Excellent
Hello again! Oh yes... time for more moans from everyone with me asking another question. Different, isn't it?

Basically, last night, myself and two rogue friends decided that it'd be fun to go to UC and play around with some 70 horde (each side had their fair share of deaths, I'll tell you that, but it was fun).

Anyway, it sort of got me to thinking. I love my combat build, no doubt about it. But I want to try out part sub with hemo involved and see how that is. I know that there are many rogues out there that love it and others that are still all about "go combat swords."

I do want to keep swords as my weapons (still working on that s1 MH), and I would like to try to keep things like blade flurry and adrenaline rush. Preferably, I'd like this build to be great at both PVE and PVP (if possible).

I did look at some of the builds that Nooblestick, and found one that is for the most part what I'm looking for.

I had changed some things like moving the 2 points from lightning reflexs to Imp SS (since I spam that like crazy). And added points to the Weapon Expertise.

I guess my thing is, would this build work or should I try out the one that Nooblestick had put?

As I had said, this is just to try out. If I'm not too into it, I'll just switch back to my good ol' Combat Swords spec. Also remember that I'm hoping to use this for both PVE and PVP and that I am still going to be using my swords.

Let me know what you think =) Thanks

Edited, Feb 29th 2008 9:56am by xNocturnalSunx
#2 Feb 29 2008 at 8:57 AM Rating: Good
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340 posts
Aggression boosts sinister strike damage. It doesnt touch Hemo.

Imp Sinister strike in a Hemo build should be illegal.

If you want to go this direction, the dead HARP spec is still the way to do it 0/31/30. Raelie still uses it for some god awful reason. Full shadowstep with swords is definitely stronger. Full combat is definitely stronger.

Roughly something like this, although I'm sure I dont have it perfect.

Edited, Feb 29th 2008 11:59am by DrMayhem
#3 Feb 29 2008 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
Okay cool.

Now with that build you linked, why go for the heightened senses instead of Ghostly strike? I mean, I know the with HS, it'd make it easier to detect, but I figured that Ghostly strike would be best when fighting.
#4 Feb 29 2008 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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169 posts
Personally, just based off what you said you wanted, I would either go for this build with 2/5 Combat potency, or this build with 2/2 Heightened Senses.

Imp SS is pointless since with that build you will spam Hemo, and not SS. This also renders Aggression almost worthless.

So, by removing the points from deflection(useful against Rogue, Feral Druid, Enh Shammy, Warrior, and Ret Pally but not even that useful there) and picking up Sword Spec instead you should receive a good DPS increase. I also added Blade Twisting which can prove helpful on occasion.

Then, you are left with a few points left over which you can really put wherever you want and I put into either Combat Potency, or Heightened Senses.

To be honest, any of these builds is really gimping yourself. It isn't particularly good for anything. By going with this sort of build, you loose a lot of amazing Talents form early Assassination, loose Combat Potency, and Surprise Attacks, and don't gain the 10% increase to AP, the 15% agi, the 10% Hemo boost, Cheat Death, or the mobility of Shadowstep.

So basically, you gain stealth, armor ignore, a better Sap, Hemo, and Prep but loose a sh*t load of dmg and gain no mobility.

Edit: I recommend either going Combat Maces or Shadowstep. Combat maces is PvE viable and does fine in lower level PvP. Shadowstep is the best we have for PvP and is passable in 5 man instances.

Edited, Feb 29th 2008 11:01am by Nocthil
#5 Feb 29 2008 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
Nocthil wrote:

To be honest, any of these builds is really gimping yourself.


Well that would suck lol. Is there really any type of build that I could do that be great for PVP (at the moment, since I'm mainly doing that right now for gear...) but also something to where I could be useful in instances if I need to run any.

As I said, I'd like to keep things like AR and BF, but if using points to get those is going to gimp myself PVP wise, I'll try out something else.

This would only be temporary anyway, at least until I can get enough honor to get better gear (then I'll probably be switching back to my Combat spec) to go dilly dally everywhere lol.
#6 Feb 29 2008 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
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169 posts
Combat Maces. Viable in everything, though not as spectacular as other builds. The 0/31/30 build is also passable in PvE.

Edited, Feb 29th 2008 11:11am by Nocthil
#7 Feb 29 2008 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
Okay, so I looked at the Shadowstep builds that were given by Demea on their build thread. I saw this one that would work for swords. Is there any thing I should change on it, or would it be viable for PVP along with PVE?

Here
#8 Feb 29 2008 at 11:23 AM Rating: Default
No shadowstep build is viable in PvE...period.
#9 Feb 29 2008 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
lol so basically... It's either combat or shadow... PVP or PVE...

well crap. lol
#10 Feb 29 2008 at 12:04 PM Rating: Decent
SF Swords variant is another possibly to consider, its not that great but not that bad with the poison talents maxed either.
#11 Feb 29 2008 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
Salwrathis wrote:
No shadowstep build is viable in PvE...period.


Again, look up what 'viable' means. Shadowstep builds may not be the most dps, but they are definitely 'viable'. Even fun. I went 1-70 with shadowstep. (well 20-70) so it is 'viable'.

Also, what specifically are you aiming to do? Raid? If so, it's about dps, since you shouldn't aim for being hit. Don't go for stuff like ghostly strike. If you're doing solo play, you'll want to mix in defense skills.
#12 Mar 01 2008 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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2,826 posts
You'll do ok DPS as 20/0/41 in 5-man dungeons.

Lately I've been doing 5-mans with my shaman trying to get some ele upgrades for him, and every rogue I see is 20/0/41. I love blowing them out of the water on the DPS meters.

The good thing about 20/0/41 is you don't need a new set of weapons. That S1 OH sword you got and the S1 MH sword you're working towards do just fine in that build.

Combat maces is really dead in Arena because of the lack of mobility, most of the serious arena rogues are ShS

And I think the only serious Arena rogues who aren't ShS are muti rogues on RPM 3v3 teams. And even those may be ShS now.
#13 Mar 01 2008 at 8:13 AM Rating: Default
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2,550 posts
If you are Shadowstep in PvE (5-mans don't matter to much) Then you are gimping yourself.

If ya want the best of both worlds....QQ more.

If you want to do abouve average in PvE and average to above Average in PvP go Combat Maces. Otherwise get over the fact that you will need to respec for PvP or PvE to get the full DPS/Utility out of your Rogue.
#14 Mar 01 2008 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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Combat maces is no longer "above average" in PVP. It's average, barely.

It lacks the mobility to keep up with the hardest class kill (druids) in the 2 brackets rogues are decent in (2s and 3s).

The only mobility upgrade you get from combat maces is Imp Sprint, which is on a long timer.

As far as I know, Nocturnal is still at the point of gearing up through 5-mans, so for her 5-mans DO matter.

Either stay combat swords and just tough it out in PVP, or co Shadowstep. You'll love it in PVP and with the S1 swords your group won't hate you for being gimp DPS in PVE.

Once you are done in normal 5-mans and move onto heroics, you will need to respec back to combat, since most heroics groups these days leave little margin for error.
#15 Mar 01 2008 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I was under the impression that after HARP got nerfed combat maces was one of the better PVP specs. Is everyone ShS or muti these days?
#16 Mar 01 2008 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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holdenvulk wrote:
Is everyone ShS [...] these days?

Yes.
#17 Mar 01 2008 at 9:10 PM Rating: Good
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Theo, muti isn't still the spec of choice in 2s with a frost mage or 3s on an RPM team?

I thought muti worked great for setting up shatter combos?
#18 Mar 01 2008 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Theo, muti isn't still the spec of choice in 2s with a frost mage or 3s on an RPM team?

I thought muti worked great for setting up shatter combos?

It does, but either way you're in a double DPS setup (with minimal healing in 3s) so not having prep, cheat death, etc, hurts the build a lot.

It works out OK whichever way you spec in 2s or 3s, but a good 45% of rogues over 2200 are speccing ShS right now, for a good reason.
#19 Mar 02 2008 at 12:09 AM Rating: Decent
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3,451 posts
My personal favorite is 0/20/41, I highly suggest you try it for PvP(non daggers). It is so strong and really helps you out with those pesky kiting classes in arena.
High white damage build.
#20 Mar 02 2008 at 12:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Zornov wrote:
My personal favorite is 0/20/41, I highly suggest you try it for PvP(non daggers). It is so strong and really helps you out with those pesky kiting classes in arena.
High white damage build.

Vile Poisons, Relentless, and Ruthlessness are too hard to give up.

Plus, having almost 34% crit while still having 1700+ AP is ridiculously fun.
#21 Mar 02 2008 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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3,451 posts
Theo wrote:

Vile Poisons, Relentless, and Ruthlessness are too hard to give up.

Plus, having almost 34% crit while still having 1700+ AP is ridiculously fun.


Improved S&D, and Imp dual wield with the 1700+ AP is much better imo. You are swinging faster longer and your offhand dmg adds up and hurts. Throw in two sprints that both break your roots & snares really helps against Resto Druids and Frost Mages.

Also with all the Resilience that people have now, higher crit builds are reduced so much. I'd rather make every hit count with the high white damage. To each their own though. :P I'm sure both builds can work nicely if played right.

Cheers.
#22 Mar 02 2008 at 6:10 PM Rating: Default
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Zornov wrote:
Theo wrote:

Vile Poisons, Relentless, and Ruthlessness are too hard to give up.

Plus, having almost 34% crit while still having 1700+ AP is ridiculously fun.


Improved S&D, and Imp dual wield with the 1700+ AP is much better imo. You are swinging faster longer and your offhand dmg adds up and hurts. Throw in two sprints that both break your roots & snares really helps against Resto Druids and Frost Mages.

Also with all the Resilience that people have now, higher crit builds are reduced so much. I'd rather make every hit count with the high white damage. To each their own though. :P I'm sure both builds can work nicely if played right.

Cheers.

Majority of top rogues use 20/0/41. Smiley: tongue
#23 Mar 05 2008 at 5:15 AM Rating: Good
Bigdaddyjug wrote:

As far as I know, Nocturnal is still at the point of gearing up through 5-mans, so for her 5-mans DO matter.

Either stay combat swords and just tough it out in PVP, or co Shadowstep. You'll love it in PVP and with the S1 swords your group won't hate you for being gimp DPS in PVE.

Once you are done in normal 5-mans and move onto heroics, you will need to respec back to combat, since most heroics groups these days leave little margin for error.


First off, thanks for pointing out that I am a girl =P.

Secondly, you're right. I am still trying to gear up (haven't had much time as of late).

I did go to the PTR this past weekend to check it out and tried a sub build. It was fun, but I did miss my blade flurry/AR combo. Like I said, I do love the build I'm in right now, just wanted to try out other builds.

If I do ever spec into something else, I do plan on respeccing into combat.
#24 Mar 05 2008 at 10:06 AM Rating: Decent
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169 posts
Honestly, if you want to both PvE and PvP, your best bet will be to respec weekly. I raid weekends so I stay Combat all weekend, then go to ShS for the week, then back to Combat for the weekend. The cost is easily covered by daily quests.
#25 Mar 06 2008 at 5:15 AM Rating: Decent
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3,451 posts
Theo wrote:
Majority of top rogues use 20/0/41.


I respecced to 17/3/41(tweaked only slightly} on my days off and I really enjoy this new build. Seeing much more bigger numbers from my hemo crits that's making me smile and my opponents seem to be dropping faster then ever. *sinister grin*

Thanks Theo.

Zamboner
70 NE Rogue
Altar of Storms
#26 Mar 06 2008 at 6:22 AM Rating: Good
So, I've decided that I'm going to make two rogues on the PTR and make a combat and a sub build. Figured, what better way to determine how well I'll do with each than test them out first before actually respeccing, yeah?

One, I'll do with this build

and the other, I'll go with the build I'm already at.

I'll let you know which I have enjoyed the most and which I feel gave me more "umph" lol

Edited, Mar 6th 2008 9:23am by xNocturnalSunx
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