I'm speaking as a resto druid right now, how much armor/health should I expect a pally tank to have before entering heroics?
(I know 200 spell damage, 490 defense, and crush-immune but the armor and health listed were "As much as possible", I want a minimum)
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How much armor/health for heroics?Follow
Well, if you've got the other requirements the health and armor should follow suit, but if I were to give a rough number: 10.5k health, 12k armor? Sounds about right to me for minimums to shoot for.
Reason I asked is because I had a pally tank who was crittable in heroic sethekk, who had 11k health and armor, who didn't really see the need for CC, and wondered why my burst healing was inadequate.
On the one hand it's amusing to see a Paladin who thinks just because he's a Paladin he can get away without CC, but it's also very disheartening at the same time. Just starting Heroics even a Paladin should use some CC, ESPECIALLY if they are crittable, which is a big no no in the first place.
I amend my previous statement to say, "If you gear up properly, your health and armor should follow the other requirements." Could probably word it a bit better, but meh, tired. Sounds to me your Paly there was just a ditz, but 11k on a properly geared Tankadin, with some CC (not necessarily full) should be sufficient.
I amend my previous statement to say, "If you gear up properly, your health and armor should follow the other requirements." Could probably word it a bit better, but meh, tired. Sounds to me your Paly there was just a ditz, but 11k on a properly geared Tankadin, with some CC (not necessarily full) should be sufficient.
Part of the problem too is that I'm on the low-end for heroics as well. Usually I hear "if you got a good tank, XX healing is okay" or "if you got a good healer, XX armor is okay" and we're both on that end, so it was a hard run.
Im close to those stats on my pally and would not dream of doing any heroic without cc. Went to heroic SP last night. Me prot pally, 2 mages 1 loc and a shammy healer, was a very fast and clean run
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lightbringer&n=Bloodgen
(kinds defender is just for when im AoE grinding) and it looks cool lol
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lightbringer&n=Bloodgen
(kinds defender is just for when im AoE grinding) and it looks cool lol
im glad to see these numbers. If im pushing a little more armor and 2k more HP my gear shouldnt be a burden on the group and i can start telling healers how to do their goddamn jobs.
This guy would go from 70% to dead within a GCD, with 3 stacks of lifebloom and a rejuv ticking (rejuv may not have mattered much) and kept telling me I need to use regrowth. I was like "dude, I can't even get one off." Granted if he was at 100% he MAY have survived, but do you really expect me to keep the tank right at 95-100% the whole time?
how much healing you got? because HoTs might not be cuttin it. Unless you have had no problems with other tanks.
1061. I have had 5 tanks in the 3 runs I've done. I've done underbog, where we started off with a druid tank who lacked the TPS against healing aggro...meaning either I waited until he died to heal him, or else I would die, and after 3 pulls he left group. Then we got a warrior who could actually do it, and we went all the way through. Excepting a regrowth every once in a while, or a NS+HT, we were fine.
Then in heroic sethekk, this guy tanked up until the end. We wiped a lot, but the problem was on some fights he would drop from 70% to dead within a GCD. Nobody but virtually a priest (who could use PW:S) could protect him from that, because if he drops 70% in < 1.5 seconds, that means that heals are probably going to be coming too slow.
And in shattered halls, HoTs were again good enough.
Then in heroic sethekk, this guy tanked up until the end. We wiped a lot, but the problem was on some fights he would drop from 70% to dead within a GCD. Nobody but virtually a priest (who could use PW:S) could protect him from that, because if he drops 70% in < 1.5 seconds, that means that heals are probably going to be coming too slow.
And in shattered halls, HoTs were again good enough.
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Part of the problem too is that I'm on the low-end for heroics as well. Usually I hear "if you got a good tank, XX healing is okay" or "if you got a good healer, XX armor is okay" and we're both on that end, so it was a hard run.
Great quote! It will be tough when you both are on the low end, gear progression will help, if this pally is to be a new tanking buddy, you both will be able to work together to form a great team, but if you are asking to find out what to ask in PUGs and such, armour/hp are misleading.
Your +heals is a bit on the low end, but you did say you were starting out. FOr heroics uncrit only requires 485 not 490, the others stats people have mentioned are fine. Uncrush is a concern in raids, so no worries there, but your low heals will be an issue until you can boost them abit.
I see he wasn't uncrittable, should be 485, there are soo many new tanks out there these days who think armor armor hp hp hp hp and stack it, I think its a combination of things, there is no real armour/hp - as much as possible means without sacrificing important stuff like defense. For heroics and even moreso raids, there is a delicate balance of gear to be effective. Its not as simple as your question states. Of course most here pretty much answered that, but minimum should be around 10.5-11k health and armor around 11-12k with 485 def. The tank is the sponge and you are the water keeping that sponge full
and yes, I agree I do not particularly care for HoTs myself either. Healers should learn to know when to use them and when to use straight heals like regrowth. THe healer should not wait until the tank is down to nothing, or even halfway, keep him topped off, if he holds aggro as he should, then you shouldnt have to worry about heals on the rest of the group, unless of course you run into odd AOE situations, or things of that nature.
Healing is tough, tanking is tough, they both require skill in addition to minor stats, thus why many don't like either, yet you see more and more rolling one of each just to see high end content.
Also, some heroics are cake for a pally, like SH as you mentioned, well not cake but you get my drift, and there are others where a pally wont touch, only becuase of certain mob types. Heroics is not easy and can be on par with raids.
The pally's mistake is treating a heroic like a normal instance in terms of cc, you really need to cc until you both start moving up the rare to epic line. If you had closer to 1200 healing, Id prefer a little more at least, and the rest of the group is extremely well geared, shouldn't be a problem, only have to watch dps pulling threat, so hopefully the pally at a minimum has omen, and you do as well.
You two, the healer and pally form a symbiotic bond, you keep him up, he keeps you up and the group can make it if there isn't a lot of stupidity.
Heroics are on par to raids (not quite but pretty darn close), if anyone tells you different, well I have a bridge they can buy.
my pally, before i retired him due to boredom was holy spec and I had gathered a tanking set for whenever i wanted to run around and half-*** tank an instance for someone and being a dedicated healer I still had the gear to be uncrittable and wouldn't think of touching a heroic or raid without. I'm not saying that the whole problem was the pallys gear but he should at least give it some consideration...
Naw, we're not friends. I was just wondering so if I group with another pally, I know what to look for.
and yes, I agree I do not particularly care for HoTs myself either. Healers should learn to know when to use them and when to use straight heals like regrowth. THe healer should not wait until the tank is down to nothing, or even halfway, keep him topped off, if he holds aggro as he should, then you shouldnt have to worry about heals on the rest of the group, unless of course you run into odd AOE situations, or things of that nature.
No druid is going to spam regrowth. That is the most mana inefficient spell known to healing (well, maybe not, but for druids it definitely is), especially if you dont use the HoT from it. Healing touch is on a 3 second cast time. So if the tank is going to go from 70% to dead in less than 1.5 seconds, you can assume that even from 100% I'm not gonna heal him in time.
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and yes, I agree I do not particularly care for HoTs myself either. Healers should learn to know when to use them and when to use straight heals like regrowth. THe healer should not wait until the tank is down to nothing, or even halfway, keep him topped off, if he holds aggro as he should, then you shouldnt have to worry about heals on the rest of the group, unless of course you run into odd AOE situations, or things of that nature.
No druid is going to spam regrowth. That is the most mana inefficient spell known to healing (well, maybe not, but for druids it definitely is), especially if you dont use the HoT from it. Healing touch is on a 3 second cast time. So if the tank is going to go from 70% to dead in less than 1.5 seconds, you can assume that even from 100% I'm not gonna heal him in time.
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