I just wanted to express my joy at Protection! I begun outlands at 58 in Retribution, having leveled all the way there. Outlands was hard. Took forever to kill one guy, and after that I'd be at most 50% mana and health.
Ding! 60. Respect Prot, spent 100 gil on new skills and tried out my greatness.
When as Ret it took me forever to kill 1 guy, it now takes me the same amount of time to kill 4 and i'm in better shape after the battle than i was while Retting.
Fantastical!
Here's my tubular spec. If i were to redo it i might put more points in the spell reduction and or reckoning. As casters are evil, but solo quest in prot you'll need to take them down occasionaly.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVhtIx0zRRkZVbx0hb
Oh and if anyone has any suggestions on easily obtainable gear for tanking instances, that'd be great.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Suramar&n=Migma
I do have some better leggings with more stamina and + defense, but it seems the ones i have now are better for soloing. Figured more spell damage for soloing, and a seperate suit of more stamina and defense for instance tanking(warrior gear). Then balance it as need be during instance for threat generation/damage absorbing.
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Outlands is my Oyster! Thx ProtFollow
Um...wow. Your spec is well...bad. Improved Ret Aura is garbage, to start with. That being said, you'd be best off going more into protection before even touching the ret tree.
I can't even imagine having a pre-70 prot build that didn't max out reckoning. Also, no spell warding makes me cry. Have you looked at the sticky? No combat expertise, no avenger's shield, one point in Ardent Defender...seriously. It's bad. And you're still using level 40 gear. Doesn't matter if it's blue. You should have gotten something from Outlands that's better than that by now...heck, I'm surprised you haven't gotten things that are better from Azeroth quests.
Seriously, I'm not trying to be mean, but look at the sticky. You'll find prot is even better once you've got a better build. And a sword faster than 2.6 (2-2.2 is optimal weapon speed for reckoning, though you'll end up with something faster at 70, just because of what's available.)
I can't even imagine having a pre-70 prot build that didn't max out reckoning. Also, no spell warding makes me cry. Have you looked at the sticky? No combat expertise, no avenger's shield, one point in Ardent Defender...seriously. It's bad. And you're still using level 40 gear. Doesn't matter if it's blue. You should have gotten something from Outlands that's better than that by now...heck, I'm surprised you haven't gotten things that are better from Azeroth quests.
Seriously, I'm not trying to be mean, but look at the sticky. You'll find prot is even better once you've got a better build. And a sword faster than 2.6 (2-2.2 is optimal weapon speed for reckoning, though you'll end up with something faster at 70, just because of what's available.)
Scholar
25 posts
lol. I've gotten every piece of outlands gear i've come across so far. And as far as Ardent talent goes, i only even see a benefit out of that if i get below 35% health which i do not do while soloing. So right now those points are better spent elsewhere.
Not to mention i'm not 70 yet, i'm only 60. So i still have 10 more points to spend.
Also, 3% spell avoidance in the ret tree is better than just reducing a spell by 4%. If you can avoid a spell, you don't take any damage. BUt if you just reduce it, you still take damage. Not to mention the speed boost of the same talent, which greatly helps questing.
And while you there, why not spend 2 points in improve ret aura? Since all the damage comes from returning damage to enemies. Better spend in ret aura so i get constant results from it vs only getting benefits if i go below 35% health.
And to kick the spell warding horse a bit more, while soloing i'll be avoiding spell casters. so points in that will also be wasted for me right now.
Precision will help hits, which means more return on mana/health. Thought it may indeed be more beneficial in reckoning. But that's likely where my points are going next.
What else did you bash? Maybe you should use your own head sometimes instead of following the norm.
<3s
i'm also thinking you thought i was 70...?
Edited, Feb 27th 2008 8:53pm by Fifemoo
Not to mention i'm not 70 yet, i'm only 60. So i still have 10 more points to spend.
Also, 3% spell avoidance in the ret tree is better than just reducing a spell by 4%. If you can avoid a spell, you don't take any damage. BUt if you just reduce it, you still take damage. Not to mention the speed boost of the same talent, which greatly helps questing.
And while you there, why not spend 2 points in improve ret aura? Since all the damage comes from returning damage to enemies. Better spend in ret aura so i get constant results from it vs only getting benefits if i go below 35% health.
And to kick the spell warding horse a bit more, while soloing i'll be avoiding spell casters. so points in that will also be wasted for me right now.
Precision will help hits, which means more return on mana/health. Thought it may indeed be more beneficial in reckoning. But that's likely where my points are going next.
What else did you bash? Maybe you should use your own head sometimes instead of following the norm.
<3s
i'm also thinking you thought i was 70...?
Edited, Feb 27th 2008 8:53pm by Fifemoo
No, I knew you were 60. I also have a 60 prot pally, so it's not as if I don't know what I'm talking about. Yeah, pursuit of justice would be decent to have, but guess what...I've got a mount.
I can't imagine not having maxed out reckoning or combat expertise. Reckoning and holy shield are the bread and butter of a protection pally. And improved ret aura takes your damage from what...20 to 30? Wow, that extra 10 points really helps a lot, doesn't it?
You're also missing out on 4% increased damage by not maxing out 1-handed specialization.
I just think you'd find that you do a lot better if you'd spent the point in protection before ret. The things you have in ret are fine, with the exception of improved ret aura, they're exactly the things I'm planning on taking as well. But they're where my last 10 points are going (well, 15 when I get to the point of doing heroics/raids and drop reckoning.)
I mean, hey, if that works for you, whatever, but I think you'd find that you'd be doing better with a more cookie-cutter like build. There's a reason it became the cookie-cutter.
But hey, if that works for you, and people actually let you stay in groups with them after seeing your spec, it's no skin off my nose, so do whatever you want.
Edit: There/They're, doh!
Edited, Feb 27th 2008 9:03pm by Vaeliorin
I can't imagine not having maxed out reckoning or combat expertise. Reckoning and holy shield are the bread and butter of a protection pally. And improved ret aura takes your damage from what...20 to 30? Wow, that extra 10 points really helps a lot, doesn't it?
You're also missing out on 4% increased damage by not maxing out 1-handed specialization.
I just think you'd find that you do a lot better if you'd spent the point in protection before ret. The things you have in ret are fine, with the exception of improved ret aura, they're exactly the things I'm planning on taking as well. But they're where my last 10 points are going (well, 15 when I get to the point of doing heroics/raids and drop reckoning.)
I mean, hey, if that works for you, whatever, but I think you'd find that you'd be doing better with a more cookie-cutter like build. There's a reason it became the cookie-cutter.
But hey, if that works for you, and people actually let you stay in groups with them after seeing your spec, it's no skin off my nose, so do whatever you want.
Edit: There/They're, doh!
Edited, Feb 27th 2008 9:03pm by Vaeliorin
Scholar
25 posts
improved ret aura is +50%. +20, not +10.
4 things hit you, that's +80 damage.
I need some house shoes
4 things hit you, that's +80 damage.
I need some house shoes
So what exactly is your reasoning for not maxing out One Handed Weapon Spec? That 5% damage increase affects your Ret Aura, Holy Shield, Seal of Righteousness, and Consecration. That's QUITE a bit more threat than the damage you receive from Imp Ret aura.
Then there's Combat Expertise. You get 10% more stam. That means a LOT more life, and the Expertise makes it so you hit more often. Get those befor eheading down Ret.
Then there's Combat Expertise. You get 10% more stam. That means a LOT more life, and the Expertise makes it so you hit more often. Get those befor eheading down Ret.
As you progress past 60 I used ret aura less and less. The damage you can mitigate with Dev aura will far outweigh the measly damage that ret aura does. I used ret aura up to outland for all my grinding. However, once I got above 100 spell damage and some of the sick outland gear, 20 or 30 damage to a mob isn't ****.
You WILL do more dps by getting reckoning and you will last longer by using devotion aura. I dont even use a shield spike anymore. However the extra 180+ health from my shield enchant, with my mitigation, helps me to last longer. I wade into 5 to 8 things when I can, judge and re seal Wisdom,then procede to Holy Shield and Consecrate my *** off.
You are right though, prot is the way to go for wonderfully enjoyable leveling. I would suggest tweaking your spec. It's your toon though, I can only advise. Just have fun.
You WILL do more dps by getting reckoning and you will last longer by using devotion aura. I dont even use a shield spike anymore. However the extra 180+ health from my shield enchant, with my mitigation, helps me to last longer. I wade into 5 to 8 things when I can, judge and re seal Wisdom,then procede to Holy Shield and Consecrate my *** off.
You are right though, prot is the way to go for wonderfully enjoyable leveling. I would suggest tweaking your spec. It's your toon though, I can only advise. Just have fun.
Scholar
25 posts
I hate you guys i quit wow!!! :((((
jk but as i was reading your posts i nearly killed a buzzard that had been pecking me without my knowing it
And i totally neglected to see the stamina bonus on combat expertise thing. I definetely need mroe stamina right now.
I just got done tanking Ramparts with a group that consisted of noone above 61, and we didn't even really use CC. No wipes(almost on last boss).
Owe a lot to the holy paladin healer though, and i only died instantly to the last boss. after we got it down 50%.
Also ended the instance with me doing the second most damage out of the group.
jk but as i was reading your posts i nearly killed a buzzard that had been pecking me without my knowing it
And i totally neglected to see the stamina bonus on combat expertise thing. I definetely need mroe stamina right now.
I just got done tanking Ramparts with a group that consisted of noone above 61, and we didn't even really use CC. No wipes(almost on last boss).
Owe a lot to the holy paladin healer though, and i only died instantly to the last boss. after we got it down 50%.
Also ended the instance with me doing the second most damage out of the group.
Welcome to prot!!!
Eh, your spec is fine, i used a nearly identical spec(except i had 3/5 in 1hand spec) till 65 i think, when i started tanking manatombs. Then i specced to http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVhtIx0zMrqtVbx for more stam and so i could range pull instead of judge/body pull.
For solo questing your spec is fine, i'd just make sure and move those 5 pts in ret(PoJ/imp ret) before you start tanking mid 60's dungeons. But ramps, bf, ub and sp should be fine with that spec, provided you keep on top of your gear(cheap enchants/armor kits on everything, stam/def gems in anything that can be gemmed, no gear more than 2-3 lvls old)
For solo questing your spec is fine, i'd just make sure and move those 5 pts in ret(PoJ/imp ret) before you start tanking mid 60's dungeons. But ramps, bf, ub and sp should be fine with that spec, provided you keep on top of your gear(cheap enchants/armor kits on everything, stam/def gems in anything that can be gemmed, no gear more than 2-3 lvls old)
You need to drop imp. Ret aura and imp. Judgment; they sound awesome, but Ret aura is good enough as it is and imp. Judgment does very little for your tanking. Pursuit of Justice is great for two things; walking around when you have no horse, and PvP. Since you get Crusader Aura at 62, Pursuit of Justice is going to be as useful as tits on a bull.
Drop Precision. You don't need it. With the leftovers, max out Reckoning (as they say, it's still vital before you hit 70 and it stops appearing) and please max out 1handed weapon spec. Seriously, it's not even an choice. That talent is +5% damage, straight up. Ardent Defender is disputable (I love it, it's saved my butt from more than one bad pull, but theoretically you shouldn't ever be below 35% in an ideal instance situation) but Weapon Expertise is gold because of the +stamina.
Cross-speccing at this level is iffy because you've locked yourself out of some very good talents near the end of the tree. Avenger's Shield isn't vital, but people will expect you to have it. So the points you have in Ret are good choices, but at the wrong time. They're what people pick up during the end-game.
Don't be insulted, you're definitely on the right track. You've figured out how paladins tank. What we're doing is basically nitpicking. And it's always good to see another person loving Prot.
Drop Precision. You don't need it. With the leftovers, max out Reckoning (as they say, it's still vital before you hit 70 and it stops appearing) and please max out 1handed weapon spec. Seriously, it's not even an choice. That talent is +5% damage, straight up. Ardent Defender is disputable (I love it, it's saved my butt from more than one bad pull, but theoretically you shouldn't ever be below 35% in an ideal instance situation) but Weapon Expertise is gold because of the +stamina.
Cross-speccing at this level is iffy because you've locked yourself out of some very good talents near the end of the tree. Avenger's Shield isn't vital, but people will expect you to have it. So the points you have in Ret are good choices, but at the wrong time. They're what people pick up during the end-game.
Don't be insulted, you're definitely on the right track. You've figured out how paladins tank. What we're doing is basically nitpicking. And it's always good to see another person loving Prot.
if it were legal to marry reckoning in this state, then I would!!!
Edited, Feb 28th 2008 8:09am by zebug
Edited, Feb 28th 2008 8:09am by zebug
Spec is so-so; I would drop Imp Ret Aura, but that's just me. As prot, "DPS" isn't a concern. I've been on top of DPS classes on damage meters also, but didn't think of it past that. Only thing that proves is that it was you that was tanking multiple MOBs. Add CC into the mix & things will be different.
But; thinking about the Lv60 to Lv70 content... the spec isn't as big of a deal, as long as you know how to play a Paladin Tank.
Suggestions:
Drop Imp Ret Aura, Drop PoJ when you get crusader aura, try to fill in the 5 point talents... because 1/5 will make very very very little differnce.
Precisions not a bad talent, as I've read it now also increases the chance taunt will land.
Spell Warding isn't as big as most think IMO, esspecialy in non-endgame content. Casters should be #1 on the kill or CC list, so you won't take much spell damage anyways. At least not enough that 4% will make or break you. Spell Warding & PoJ are nice for soloing but if you avoid casters when you can, points could be spent better elsewhere.
Kz
But; thinking about the Lv60 to Lv70 content... the spec isn't as big of a deal, as long as you know how to play a Paladin Tank.
Suggestions:
Drop Imp Ret Aura, Drop PoJ when you get crusader aura, try to fill in the 5 point talents... because 1/5 will make very very very little differnce.
Precisions not a bad talent, as I've read it now also increases the chance taunt will land.
Spell Warding isn't as big as most think IMO, esspecialy in non-endgame content. Casters should be #1 on the kill or CC list, so you won't take much spell damage anyways. At least not enough that 4% will make or break you. Spell Warding & PoJ are nice for soloing but if you avoid casters when you can, points could be spent better elsewhere.
Kz
I disagree that prot is the better questing spec for outlands. I had a very rough time questing in Hellfire as a prot pally.
I think it is better for a lot of classes to continue xp in the old world until 60-61 before moving to outlands. I think this is very important for a paladin, but I'd love to hear other's comments.
PS. My current paladin is 59.75, and I'm planning on staying in the old world until the quests run out.
I think it is better for a lot of classes to continue xp in the old world until 60-61 before moving to outlands. I think this is very important for a paladin, but I'd love to hear other's comments.
PS. My current paladin is 59.75, and I'm planning on staying in the old world until the quests run out.
idk why everyone is hating in imp ret aura. a prot pally uses ret aura all the time. it makes sense. good pick, OP.
pls max reckoning. it is a major boost for prot dps, plus procs often when being hit by multiple mobs
pls max reckoning. it is a major boost for prot dps, plus procs often when being hit by multiple mobs
imp Ret aura is garbage,
if your using Ret aura, its for Agro, not damage.
if your using it to get agro, then your tanking. points that deep into ret is garbage.
that Talent in its current placement is an "ABSOLUTE" waste. i cant stress that enough.
the Talent itself is not all that bad, but its placement contridicts itself.
if your Ret, then that Talent is useless.
if your prot, you will not be able to spec that far into ret. if you think you can, you are wrong. ^^
But!, you are just lvling. know that when you get to 70, you need a respec, and a read through the FAQ before you do it.
Edit: it would be great if they just switched Imp Ret with Precision but . . meh.
Edited, Feb 28th 2008 9:47am by RuenBahamut
if your using Ret aura, its for Agro, not damage.
if your using it to get agro, then your tanking. points that deep into ret is garbage.
that Talent in its current placement is an "ABSOLUTE" waste. i cant stress that enough.
the Talent itself is not all that bad, but its placement contridicts itself.
if your Ret, then that Talent is useless.
if your prot, you will not be able to spec that far into ret. if you think you can, you are wrong. ^^
But!, you are just lvling. know that when you get to 70, you need a respec, and a read through the FAQ before you do it.
Edit: it would be great if they just switched Imp Ret with Precision but . . meh.
Edited, Feb 28th 2008 9:47am by RuenBahamut
Quote:
I disagree that prot is the better questing spec for outlands. I had a very rough time questing in Hellfire as a prot pally.
I think it is better for a lot of classes to continue xp in the old world until 60-61 before moving to outlands. I think this is very important for a paladin, but I'd love to hear other's comments.
PS. My current paladin is 59.75, and I'm planning on staying in the old world until the quests run out.
I think it is better for a lot of classes to continue xp in the old world until 60-61 before moving to outlands. I think this is very important for a paladin, but I'd love to hear other's comments.
PS. My current paladin is 59.75, and I'm planning on staying in the old world until the quests run out.
Not sure if prot is the 'best' outlands lvling spec, just know that i had absolutely 0 problem killing multiple mobs even at lvl 58 when i specced prot for the 1st time. Had to visit the AH and buy some cheap greens to get started, look for 'of the sorcerer' and 'of the champion' gear. Basically any plate with stam+int+spell dam/def is great.
Also while questing xp was given a boost thru lvl 60, once you get to lvl 60 you should definitely go to outlands as the HH quests are very easy and many upgrades can be had very quickly.
I'm glad you're having good experiences with Protection. It's a truly powerful tree since TBC Launch changes. Like everyone else, I have some comments about your build.
Re: Precision
Great talent to have. It's fantastic to spec into it before 70. For level 60, you've picked it up aweful early.
Re: 1 Handed Weapon Spec
Amazing talent. Consider looking for a way to max it out. It means 5% more damage from ALL damage dealing abilities that are attributed to you in the combat log. This means anything that says "Your xxxxx hits yyyyy for zzz" while you have a 1 hander equipped, not only your melee attacks. This is huge for threat and just burning down mobs faster.
Re: Ardent Defender
In the 50s and early early 60s this isn't such a huge talent. You can generally fight with Double Lights Sealed and Judged and never drop low enough for it to matter. This makes a huge difference when you fight 12 Buzzards in Hellfire or 7 Cabal Skirmishers/Initiates in Terrokar. As you level up more, this will have HUGE value. Even for you right now.. it means you could take on another 1 or 2 mobs in a pull and still probably be in good enough shape to take another pull.
Re: Combat Expertise
Paladins have been hit gradually with a bunch of really small nerf-bats for a while. They've added up. In 2.3, we were given a HUGE buff in the form of Combat Expertise adding 10% stamina. Effectively, this is like having Blessing of Kings (for the raw HP at least) on ALL the time, and you can even stack Kings on top of it. This is a mind blowing talent that any Protection Paladin should aim for. Same reason you spec into Sacred Duty, who gives a damn abouot the difference in Bubbling, it's the Stamina that you want.
Re: Avenger's Shield
This isn't really a big deal if you're going to level your way solo to 70, but honestly it's just 1 point. Why not spec into Avenger's Shield? It's incredible when running instances. Huge threat on up to 3 targets from the beginning of the fight.. amazing. There is no excuse for you to lose aggro on a boss in ANY non-heroic instance if you don't miss your Avenger's Shield. Until they start getting end-game gear, level appropriate DPSers shouldn't be able to overcome you. Instead of having to Judge Righteousness immediatly to get ANY kind of threat on something, you can break out Crusader and then go Righteousness.
Re: Pursuit of Justice
Another great talent... that has no place in a Protection build until level 70. Its worth is debatable to Protection pallies. There are other talents to spec into, but IF you decide to take it, it should probably be the last points you spend.
Re: Imp Retribution Aura
Not a great talent... It's at best "okay" -- the down side is you have to sacrifice on amazing, great, or good talents to get it. Not worth it for a Protection Paladin.
Re: The Retribution tree as a whole
I wouldn't even touch the Retribution tree until Reckoning, 1 Handed Weapon Spec, Ardent Defender, Combat Expertise, and Avenger's Shield are maxed. Then you can afford to work your way to Deflection.
Hybrid Protection/Retribution specs that go deep into both trees are really fairly weak. You lose the important bottom talents in Protection that make AoE grinding work (let alone tanking), and you don't really gain big single-target DPS from Retribution unless you can climb down to Crusader Strike.
If you're having fun with it... awesome! I have the sneaking suspicion that you might have more fun with a few changes, but go with what works -- you can always evaluate your situation at 70. As far as gear goes... don't worry about it, you'll be a "Generic Protection Paladin" by the time you're done Hellfire if you grab the right rewards. The only thing I suggest in this regards is, as you level, DONT mix and match DPS quest rewards, tanking quest rewards, and healing quest rewards. Get the best gear for 1 job and run with it.
Edit: Oh, and a GREAT judge of your progress while gearing up, levelling, and talenting in Outland is taking on those damned Buzzards near Falcon Watch. See how many you can take, and what state you're in as you get better. By 64 with all of the generic gear, appropriate talents, and some AoEing skill you can probably take down an ENTIRE group of them in 1 pull.. which is around 12, without coming close to dying or even looking at your "OH @#$%!" buttons. Big difference from the 3-4 you can usually take when entering Outland for the first time.
Edited, Feb 28th 2008 2:09pm by Losie
Re: Precision
Great talent to have. It's fantastic to spec into it before 70. For level 60, you've picked it up aweful early.
Re: 1 Handed Weapon Spec
Amazing talent. Consider looking for a way to max it out. It means 5% more damage from ALL damage dealing abilities that are attributed to you in the combat log. This means anything that says "Your xxxxx hits yyyyy for zzz" while you have a 1 hander equipped, not only your melee attacks. This is huge for threat and just burning down mobs faster.
Re: Ardent Defender
In the 50s and early early 60s this isn't such a huge talent. You can generally fight with Double Lights Sealed and Judged and never drop low enough for it to matter. This makes a huge difference when you fight 12 Buzzards in Hellfire or 7 Cabal Skirmishers/Initiates in Terrokar. As you level up more, this will have HUGE value. Even for you right now.. it means you could take on another 1 or 2 mobs in a pull and still probably be in good enough shape to take another pull.
Re: Combat Expertise
Paladins have been hit gradually with a bunch of really small nerf-bats for a while. They've added up. In 2.3, we were given a HUGE buff in the form of Combat Expertise adding 10% stamina. Effectively, this is like having Blessing of Kings (for the raw HP at least) on ALL the time, and you can even stack Kings on top of it. This is a mind blowing talent that any Protection Paladin should aim for. Same reason you spec into Sacred Duty, who gives a damn abouot the difference in Bubbling, it's the Stamina that you want.
Re: Avenger's Shield
This isn't really a big deal if you're going to level your way solo to 70, but honestly it's just 1 point. Why not spec into Avenger's Shield? It's incredible when running instances. Huge threat on up to 3 targets from the beginning of the fight.. amazing. There is no excuse for you to lose aggro on a boss in ANY non-heroic instance if you don't miss your Avenger's Shield. Until they start getting end-game gear, level appropriate DPSers shouldn't be able to overcome you. Instead of having to Judge Righteousness immediatly to get ANY kind of threat on something, you can break out Crusader and then go Righteousness.
Re: Pursuit of Justice
Another great talent... that has no place in a Protection build until level 70. Its worth is debatable to Protection pallies. There are other talents to spec into, but IF you decide to take it, it should probably be the last points you spend.
Re: Imp Retribution Aura
Not a great talent... It's at best "okay" -- the down side is you have to sacrifice on amazing, great, or good talents to get it. Not worth it for a Protection Paladin.
Re: The Retribution tree as a whole
I wouldn't even touch the Retribution tree until Reckoning, 1 Handed Weapon Spec, Ardent Defender, Combat Expertise, and Avenger's Shield are maxed. Then you can afford to work your way to Deflection.
Hybrid Protection/Retribution specs that go deep into both trees are really fairly weak. You lose the important bottom talents in Protection that make AoE grinding work (let alone tanking), and you don't really gain big single-target DPS from Retribution unless you can climb down to Crusader Strike.
If you're having fun with it... awesome! I have the sneaking suspicion that you might have more fun with a few changes, but go with what works -- you can always evaluate your situation at 70. As far as gear goes... don't worry about it, you'll be a "Generic Protection Paladin" by the time you're done Hellfire if you grab the right rewards. The only thing I suggest in this regards is, as you level, DONT mix and match DPS quest rewards, tanking quest rewards, and healing quest rewards. Get the best gear for 1 job and run with it.
Edit: Oh, and a GREAT judge of your progress while gearing up, levelling, and talenting in Outland is taking on those damned Buzzards near Falcon Watch. See how many you can take, and what state you're in as you get better. By 64 with all of the generic gear, appropriate talents, and some AoEing skill you can probably take down an ENTIRE group of them in 1 pull.. which is around 12, without coming close to dying or even looking at your "OH @#$%!" buttons. Big difference from the 3-4 you can usually take when entering Outland for the first time.
Edited, Feb 28th 2008 2:09pm by Losie
sort of off topic but it was mentioned: I head to the outlands as soon as I hit 58. Pound through the first couple quests that give awesome gear upgrades (if you have a buddy it is even easier). Then I head back to the old world to level up to 60ish and then go back to the outlands for good. It has worked well for me and my other friends.
Just my take to what's already been said:
- Precision: yea it's nice, but I really never found I missed or had spells resisted enough pre-70 to warrant using this talent over something else. I'm seriously considering a respec when 2.4 goes live though to swap out Pursuit of Justice for this talent as a resisted Taunt can mean a wiped raid.
- 1 point in Reckoning won't do you much good. It's an extremely low chance to proc with just 1 and you'd need a LOT more mobs to make up for that deficit. Same with Ardent Defender: you stated that you don't find yourself needing it, so why even put that 1 point there? 1 point is worthless and would be much better served in Reckoning/1H Spec.
- Speaking of 1H Spec, that will be a huge boost to your leveling speed. It will be a much bigger boost to your DPS than Imp Ret Aura and Imp Judgement (Reckoning too? Maybe, not even gonna begin to number crunch ...).
- Combat Expertise is a no brainer IMO, grab it! ASAP! The health is invaluable whether you are tanking or just solo quest/grinding, and the Expertise will help with your mana/health return with Judgement/Seal combos.
- Deflection isn't so important pre-70 where you will be wanting to push your avoidance up (if you're wanting to tank). Those 5 points for a leveling Paladin are better spent elsewhere.
- Imp Ret Aura: again, 1H Spec will provide MUCH higher DPS/threat gain then this talent no matter how you slice it, and spending 15 points in Ret to have access to it really isn't justifiable even at 70. If this talent was lower, or in the Prot tree - SOMETHING - it might be worth taking, but so far down the Ret tree, it's just not.
If I may suggest a better talent build for a level 60:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?0000000000000000000005005133500021525210510500000000000000000000
After that put points into Improved Judgement, then Ardent Defender, and finally Deflection. At 70 I'd spec out of Reckoning and spend those points maxing Deflection and picking up Precision, Pursuit of Justice, or Imp SotC (personal choice).
Edited, Feb 28th 2008 1:05pm by Maulgak
- Precision: yea it's nice, but I really never found I missed or had spells resisted enough pre-70 to warrant using this talent over something else. I'm seriously considering a respec when 2.4 goes live though to swap out Pursuit of Justice for this talent as a resisted Taunt can mean a wiped raid.
- 1 point in Reckoning won't do you much good. It's an extremely low chance to proc with just 1 and you'd need a LOT more mobs to make up for that deficit. Same with Ardent Defender: you stated that you don't find yourself needing it, so why even put that 1 point there? 1 point is worthless and would be much better served in Reckoning/1H Spec.
- Speaking of 1H Spec, that will be a huge boost to your leveling speed. It will be a much bigger boost to your DPS than Imp Ret Aura and Imp Judgement (Reckoning too? Maybe, not even gonna begin to number crunch ...).
- Combat Expertise is a no brainer IMO, grab it! ASAP! The health is invaluable whether you are tanking or just solo quest/grinding, and the Expertise will help with your mana/health return with Judgement/Seal combos.
- Deflection isn't so important pre-70 where you will be wanting to push your avoidance up (if you're wanting to tank). Those 5 points for a leveling Paladin are better spent elsewhere.
- Imp Ret Aura: again, 1H Spec will provide MUCH higher DPS/threat gain then this talent no matter how you slice it, and spending 15 points in Ret to have access to it really isn't justifiable even at 70. If this talent was lower, or in the Prot tree - SOMETHING - it might be worth taking, but so far down the Ret tree, it's just not.
If I may suggest a better talent build for a level 60:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?0000000000000000000005005133500021525210510500000000000000000000
After that put points into Improved Judgement, then Ardent Defender, and finally Deflection. At 70 I'd spec out of Reckoning and spend those points maxing Deflection and picking up Precision, Pursuit of Justice, or Imp SotC (personal choice).
Edited, Feb 28th 2008 1:05pm by Maulgak
Scholar
25 posts
Wellsir!
To appease the Allakhazam forum gods, i have respecced. I dropped improved ret aura, and put 1 point in POJ to keep the hate up.
My first thoughts? Killing way slower than my original spec. Not only that, it seems most of my damage is coming from my sword and reckoning. I have to continuosly switch targets to keep them all coming down in health. Whereas if i just focus on one guy, figuring i'm AOEing the rest, that one guy dies way before the others.
Then I tanked Ramparts with about 1000 more health and my chum, a holy paladin. Fantastical. I was hating avenger's shield while soloing, as it was useless. But it became great to use in an instance where shaman and hunters and druids unleash a barrage of damage the second a battle starts; helps me get hate and keep it. Not only that, I can consencrate, holy shield, and judge them as they dazely approach me timing it right for full effect.
After getting more gear, and more experience with the build, I soloed again. And it's fine now. I generally just keep Devotion up, and expect my sword to do most of the work while spamming consencration and holy shield when i have 3+ and regaining mana with SOW.
To end this novel, I took on a group of level 58 orcs. About 8 of them, had no problem. I was also able to take on ~5 Level 62 orcs, no problem except for people thinking I'm in trouble and so they try to help.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Suramar&n=Migma
402 Defense, 10k armor, 6k health roughly. I think i need to focus on stamina at this point, and possibly spell damage as long as it doesn't hinder stamina/defense.
Good Day.
To appease the Allakhazam forum gods, i have respecced. I dropped improved ret aura, and put 1 point in POJ to keep the hate up.
My first thoughts? Killing way slower than my original spec. Not only that, it seems most of my damage is coming from my sword and reckoning. I have to continuosly switch targets to keep them all coming down in health. Whereas if i just focus on one guy, figuring i'm AOEing the rest, that one guy dies way before the others.
Then I tanked Ramparts with about 1000 more health and my chum, a holy paladin. Fantastical. I was hating avenger's shield while soloing, as it was useless. But it became great to use in an instance where shaman and hunters and druids unleash a barrage of damage the second a battle starts; helps me get hate and keep it. Not only that, I can consencrate, holy shield, and judge them as they dazely approach me timing it right for full effect.
After getting more gear, and more experience with the build, I soloed again. And it's fine now. I generally just keep Devotion up, and expect my sword to do most of the work while spamming consencration and holy shield when i have 3+ and regaining mana with SOW.
To end this novel, I took on a group of level 58 orcs. About 8 of them, had no problem. I was also able to take on ~5 Level 62 orcs, no problem except for people thinking I'm in trouble and so they try to help.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Suramar&n=Migma
402 Defense, 10k armor, 6k health roughly. I think i need to focus on stamina at this point, and possibly spell damage as long as it doesn't hinder stamina/defense.
Good Day.
Fifemoo wrote:
I have to continuosly switch targets to keep them all coming down in health. Whereas if i just focus on one guy, figuring i'm AOEing the rest, that one guy dies way before the others.
Then I tanked Ramparts with about 1000 more health and my chum, a holy paladin. Fantastical. I was hating avenger's shield while soloing, as it was useless. But it became great to use in an instance where shaman and hunters and druids unleash a barrage of damage the second a battle starts; helps me get hate and keep it. Not only that, I can consencrate, holy shield, and judge them as they dazely approach me timing it right for full effect.
Then I tanked Ramparts with about 1000 more health and my chum, a holy paladin. Fantastical. I was hating avenger's shield while soloing, as it was useless. But it became great to use in an instance where shaman and hunters and druids unleash a barrage of damage the second a battle starts; helps me get hate and keep it. Not only that, I can consencrate, holy shield, and judge them as they dazely approach me timing it right for full effect.
This ^^
Honestly, that's the best way you can do it: widdle everything down at once, switching targets at about 40% or so, and watching all targets fall over dead at once (or close to it).
And with Avenger's Shield: that's right, it isn't a solo weapon at all, but shines very bright in a group setting. Being able to frontload so much threat is amazing, especially against those people who like to start blasting things immediately.
A few of your comments made it seem like you felt we were ganging up on you or something, but I hope that isn't the case. This advice has been tested and proven true, and at least in my case, it isn't presented to say, "You suck, this is better," but more "We tried that, and this was more effective." Hope that comes across right, and that you continue to enjoy leveling your Paladin.
Scholar
25 posts
Maulgak, the greatest fish is not the brightest nor biggest. It is the one with the best smile.
Honestly ... you lost me with that one, LOL. If that's a compliment, then I thank you ^^ If not, well, then I will remain blissfully ignorant :P
i think he just called you a cheese flavored cracker, thats baked, not fried, and cheesy not salted.
Fifemoo wrote:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Suramar&n=Migma
402 Defense, 10k armor, 6k health roughly. I think i need to focus on stamina at this point, and possibly spell damage as long as it doesn't hinder stamina/defense.
Good Day.
402 Defense, 10k armor, 6k health roughly. I think i need to focus on stamina at this point, and possibly spell damage as long as it doesn't hinder stamina/defense.
Good Day.
Looking better!! Actually, that is a huge step in the right direction. Yes, you may kill slower, but if you wanted to kill fast... Ret and a slow 2-hdr should be your goal :)
As far as being a growing Paladin Tank; you have the right idea now. As you progress you'll start seeing good gear up-grades and get a feel for the talents that make the spec.
Your spec looks good. Nothing wrong with 1/3 in PoJ IMO, but I wouldn't have taken it... that's just me. Keep it if you want. If you still feel PoJ is for you closer to 70... I'd try to fill it in 3/3.
Gear looks good also. Remember, +spell damage for a prot pally is for threat, not necessarily damage. Yes, a nuff +SD WILL deal a significant amount of extra damage, but at that level I would focus on just enough to hold hate (which will not be much). Then aim for stamina as you mentioned.
Kz
Edited, Feb 29th 2008 10:48am by Killzon
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