question about rogue skills in PVPFollow

Yup, any increase in your stealth level will make you "harder" to detect by other players. Of course, if you need this skill to avoid detection, you have much deeper problems.

Whoooooooooooosh!

Swing-and-a-miss.

Meaning...?

I'd like to know why you think that getting MoD means you have "much deeper problems", especially in PvP.

the contrary to that could be that he goes vs a lot of teams with humans in them, and having the extra stealth protection (especially vs human rogues) can mean the difference between sapping or getting sapped. doubly so if heightened senses comes into play.

I wasn't aware people specced into talents on which they didn't intend to rely. Your attitude towards MoD is misleading at best, flat-out wrong at worst. With the majority of rogues specced shadowstep these days, they WILL have 5/5 MoD and at least 1/2 HS. Now, does the fact that a FotM spec forces me to rely on a talent mean I suck?

Hint: rhetorical question.

this gave me my prescribed belly laugh for the day. thank you Demea ;D

Hay-zeus border-hopping Kreesto, people are disagreeing with a name in red?

This is...blasphemy! This is trollery!

It's apparent you also think speccing into originality would be too much of a crutch, because I haven't heard the lol12yearold jokes more times than you've patted your smugly self-satisfied self on the back for so much underwhelming mediocrity, right?

Okay, I'll humor you and take a closer reading.



A re-quote for emphasis, just so we're clear exactly which part of your post I'm having issues with:



While I don't disagree that it's possible to avoid detection sans MoD, there's really no reason to make things harder on yourself by not taking it. Considering the sheer quantity of anti-stealth measures easily accessible to the enemy these days, breaking stealth on your own terms has never been a more painstaking task. And considering the growing extent to which arena has been reduced to a science of endlessly rehearsed class matchups, preserving your own opener has never been more tactically crucial.

Let's make an analogous statement and see how well it holds up. "Yes, malice will increase your critical strike chance, and thusly your damage output, but if you need this skill to kill your targets, you have much deeper problems." I honestly don't think I even need to make a case against this statement, and yet you defend your own as if it holds the truth of truths.

Permit me to repeat myself, since my original reply, triggering such a visceral response (What brazen audacity! Daring to challenge the sacred word of the "Overlord"?) most likely went entirely unread.



I'll just let the argument stand as is, since you didn't make the feeblest attempt at rebuttal. However, I'll elaborate. Choosing a talent spec is, at its most fundamental level, a problem of opportunity cost. Two talents sit in the first tier of the subtlety tree: Opportunity and MoD. I won't be so condescending as to assume that you'd need an explanation as to why one would forgo opportunity in a shadowstep build. So what are you giving up for MoD? Nothing. There is zero opportunity cost associated with maxing out MoD, unless you count the opportunity to say to your opponent, "Ha! I opened on you with 0/5 MoD! I clearly have no deeper issues!"

Ergo, your point about it being possible to avoid detection without MoD is moot. What's the point in taking talents at all if you're not going to rely on them to some extent? Isn't that the whole point of this game: wielding your abilities and talents to the limits of their capacity to achieve the death of your enemy?

Demea, it's painfully obvious that you hold a nauseatingly narcissistic view of yourself and your authority over these forums, but perhaps there are times when it would be healthy for you to deign an actual response to criticism.

Edit: grammar (I wouldn't want to appear as if I'm still in middle school, now would I?)

Edited, Feb 28th 2008 12:00am by beardownmanup

That's why you use Sap, you tard.

BTW, if a team starts spamming AoEs right out of the gate against me and my partner, we let them waste mana. It's funny as hell.

A sensible opponent would use rank 1 of whichever AoE spell to conserve mana, considering that the damage isn't the real point when you're trying to de-stealth people.

Still pretty funny, though.

Edit: Beardown, this should clear things up for you before you immolate yourself further: Demea wasn't bagging MoD as a talent. He was just pointing out that if you can't get an opener on a target without it, you have problems playing your rogue. Which you do. I mean, if a guy needs a crutch in order to get to the corner store, he clearly has problems walking.

Let me say that again:

Demea obviously has no issue with using Master of Deception in a PvP build. He may have a problem with crippled people and crutches, we're not sure. He likes to steal them from people in the street and stand them up in his garden, as trophies.

Edited, Feb 28th 2008 11:35am by zepoodle

THIS IS SPARTAAAAA!!


Absolutely not. When I spec Shadowstep to farm BGs, I take MoD as well because Opportunity sucks noodles for everything but Combat Dagger builds. However, it seems that the Pedantic Police feel the need to extrapolate meaning from my very simple statement, which I stand by; if you truly NEED MoD to avoid detection, you suck. Plain and simple.

Stop putting words into my mouth (fingers?).

Actually, you can't put yourself in combat unless you can get to the other team, which since I have a modicum of skill, they don't see me even without MoD.

And really, talking **** about a feral druid/rogue team that plays extremely infrequently (try every Monday) doesn't prove anything. We actually hit 1770 in this past week, but hunter/paladin teams are pretty much our anti-comp and we ran into 3 of them, along with a hunter/mage, hunter/druid, and a hunter/shaman.

The only way to avoid sap on a double stealth team is either trinketing or Berserker Rage.

rofl, pwnt. rate ups for the new guy.

Point conceded. My filter had been set to default for some reason.


While I can respect the PvE aspect of the game and those who focus on it, what your partner does brings no validation to your, or anyone else's stance in this discussion. If you're going to use phrases such as "modicum of skill", at least ensure that the evidence available to the outside observer (i.e. me) comes remotely close to demonstrating that you've the pvp experience necessary to make such brash claims.


Nowhere did I say it was impressive. Someone requested an armory, and I obliged. Simple as that. But I bet it felt good to knock down that strawman, huh?