Some interesting developments on the shaman O-boards.Follow

I don't know if anyone else will find this interesting but I do. Apparently on the shaman o-forums, they have been going around selectively deleting topics that they do not want people to see/read. Particularly involving the game dev Kalgan who has been accused of bias against the shaman class as he represents a warrior in 5v5 arena spec pvp.

Of particular interest was a 15 page thread that summarized some incriminating facts against blizz devs for some underhanded things that they had allowed to happen. For example, one of Kalgan's arena partners ranting about Elemental shaman and OP burst damage in arena, and to the effect that elementals "got exactly what they deserved". The post was since softened to show shamans needed some pushback and they were too easily shut down, but someone managed to find the original link.

I know the following is summarized in another thread, but these are Kalgan's half assed responses to legitimate player complaints about the nerf and the class. This came from an 89 page thread where players tried and tried to get some legitimate answers out of the game dev. He basically stopped posting at about page 20, he also deleted the original thread, then claimed he did not know what happened to it...


Here is what Kalgan said to a poster who asked why they are nerfing elemental shaman:

EXELLENT, nerf the massive burst damage, which is the only thing elemental has going for it...good call there! Kalgan was repeatedly accused of favoring this nerf as elemental shaman burst damage is seen as a good counter for warriors in 5v5 arena. In another forum he was quoted as favoring a Warlock nerf so that he could "rock out his new S3 warrior weapon" or something to that effect.

In regards to shaman buffs in 2.4 or future patches here is what he said:

In other words, we have time to nerf you, but we're not sure how to buff you, so we probably won't get around to it. This makes no sense, if you are going to nerf a damage reliant spec, you must apply a logical buff to counter the nerf.

In response to a question of why Shaman have no form of CC and that shaman would be happy with ANYTHING:

GREAT. Roll a tauren shaman, you have warstomp. That is your CC, problem solved! So, shaman have no CC because we would otherwise be missing that "feeling of distinction" and giving shaman CC would not really be solving much. But maybe...sometime in the future...in a galaxy far far away...there are shaman with cc...That explanation was really just a slap in the face. What does that mean, a feeling of distinction?

The explanations are always the same crap. We're looking into it, in the future...we're going to look into it next patch...shaman will be revised...we're trying to achieve balance...very tiresome indeed. I wanted to save these comments here as I have a feeling the dev is going to delete them from the o-board. It really does not sit well with me at all that a developer with an impact on PvP content would be having a vested interest in PvP gameplay.






Edited, Feb 26th 2008 12:19am by Taurrus

WTH!!!

"Probably not"!? Hehe FAR FROM, its more like, "Highly likely DO!"

So their saying that WAR STOMP is a CC!? Since when is a is a 3 second STUN w/ a .5 second cast time (used to be instant), a 3min and only 1 second of usable STUNNED time a CC!!!

Wow.

With that type of logic I guess Pally's got it in the bag for party invites with their Stun hammer :P

Does Blizzard actually TEST play thier own game? Or does testing class comparison consist of something like;

Head tester: Ok, in this CC test, your only allowed to do melee attacks with your hunter.

(Hunter dies)

Head Tester; Wow this was unfair, better buff up your ranged potential.

Lacky Tester; Shouldn't we test other specs? Situations? Races?

Head Tester; Nah, we've proven without a shadow of a doubt Shaman's are OP to ALL other classes in the first test, purely from the 1 test with a hunter using 1 dimentional skills of that class. Besides we're late to the tranny crack ***** party, lets send in the report and this is end of subject.

/sigh....

why is it people always complain about arena?

QQ arena this QQ arena that.

ITS ONLY A TINY PORTION OF A WHOLE GAME.

not that I dont agree with shammies needing some kind of CC.

Just there is A HUGE AMOUNT OF GAMEPLAY besides arena.

Try QQ'ing (and give suggestions) as to something that encompasses all gameplay (ie a solution that doesnt make us OP in one area and UP in another)

I think a large portion of MMO players play for the PvP aspect or eventually come around to competing and arena rewards are some of the best looking and best stat'd in the game, besides legendary stuff and how often does that stuff come around.

As far as CC in PvE, it's there to a degree. Sadly the Stoneclaw HP is really only good for 1 weak hitting mob and not much else and Eartbind is mildly useful. It's evident Shaman need a decent stun ability, we are the only class without one. Being stun, kited and killed with hardly a shot fired does suck. Even Pallies with the worst DPS in the game can handle a few situations. If Shaman get targeted it's pretty much a given they will die in a few seconds with little choice in the matter.

I'd take changing into GW breaking polymorph over CC but that's just me.

Ya, but the problem is that by blizzard 'balancing' arena play, they're affecting the
Arena is what blizzard is focusing on, as they want to make it an e-sport, which basically means lifebloom, life tap, etc. nerfs are gonna keep happening to 'balance the classes'. Arena is a small portion, but it's most important to blizzard, so it's not really a 'QQ more n00b'

Like saying druids are too good in arena, let's nerf their healing some more, warriors have too much hp, lets nerf that who cares about tanking, rogues are too op, lets take away stealth, these are the kind of changes that blizzard can make for the small thing of arena, and f*ck up the rest of the game.

war stomp has never been instant. its always been a .5 cast time, which is a good thing, because that means its not on the GCD timer, which means you get the full two seconds of stun time instead of just the half a second you would get if it were on the GCD.

I have pretty much given up on blizzard... we aren't as big compared to warrior, mages, priests, locks. rogues, paladins, druids, and hunters...oh wait that only leaves shamans. Therefor in order to please said classes they will buff them while nerfing us cause they just suck like that. Blizzard does not know logic, why do you think we still haven't been buffed? I would be happy with one thing (just cause I like playing a suicide shaman) changing stormstrike and I don't mean the icon. Make it so that it is on a 5 second cool down with only one 20% increased nature damage effect.

Lack of verbatim? Are you kidding? It was the EXACT OPPOSITE.



WUT? How does his summary still "grab the spirit of the argument", when the entire summary was based on something that Kalgan DIDN'T SAY.



That's an asinine thing to say. The logic of "give us something that frankly we don't even really want and is not really very useful even though it will COMPLETELY not make sense and be out of place later if/when we finally get something we do want/does make sense" is more of a cop out than anything else.

So was I, and let me clarify. He did say the thing I quoted, but everyone misinterpreted. It DOESN'T mean that Tauren Shamans have effective CC, in fact it means the exact opposite. Therefore everyone who is basing arguments on him saying that Tauren Shamans have CC has an invalid premise and their argument is meaningless.

Edited, Mar 6th 2008 11:41am by duvar

I rarely even see tauren use warstomp, as any class. Kalgan really needs to be fired or put into a windowseat because he is just a moron trying to balance everything around arena and is slowly killing raiding which is the core of WoW.
What kalgan doesn't know is what it feels like as an elemental shaman to be having a good old time in a fair game when a warrior/rogue starts comes in range of you everytime they see you. Or the woes an enhancement shaman feels when a mage/hunter sees them 30 yards away. If we are given a tested, short, and effective CC that breaks on damage all should be well for shamans. As elemental I'm not getitng pissed because I'm not owning everyone I'm getting pissed because the only things i have a chance of killing are casters.

In fairness to Kalgan (even though I think he is a douche), his comment was that he didn't think Tauren shaman though they didn't need CC because they have warstomp, implying that he knew shaman were desperate for CC. But then he followed it up with some strange logic about class disctinction and giving CC would water that down...



I have to take a bit of exception to this commment. Warriors may not have great CC, but they do have abilities to close distances and immobilize. Shout, hamstring, and they can charge through snare effects.




Quite frankly I could care less about the warlock class, but the funny thing is that the idea of a recalling aura originated on the shaman forums. The original idea was a recall totem that shaman could use to teleport up to 40 yards away back to their totem...

As far as thinking outside the box...Blizzard hasn't thought outside the box regarding the shaman class going on 3 years now. We've recieved nerf after nerf, marginal TBC ablilites and very few progressive buffs outside of watershield.

Right now, shaman are so desperate for something to be competitive, I think they would happily accept a poor clone of another class ability. I would LOVE to see some radical changes to the shaman class, even if it didn't work, it would show that at least they are TRYING to do something with it. Instant GW? Please, the druids have had that for years for no talent point investment and theirs breaks snares. A ****-poor clone at best. Shamanistic rage? No self-respecting PvP enhancement shaman gives a damn about the mana regen, SR is used for survival because of the damage mitigation. Mostly viewed as a poor clone of the hunter beast within ablitly...

The proposed FT MS? That was such a stupid cut and paste fix that it didn't even make it past PTR. 3 other classes already have an MS healing debuff clone, which is not what the shaman class needed at all anyways.

Edited, Mar 9th 2008 5:56pm by Taurrus

Um...I've been a Warrior for quite some time, and unless there's some mechanical function I'm missing, I've never been able to Charge/Intercept/Intervene out of a snare.

AS the game is now, and as much as I love elemental. I am never going back to elemental for pvp. I'm sick og having no way to not be killed by a rogue. OH look! a warrior! *takes hands off keyboard* *charge, hamstring, 5 seconds later, DEAD* I'm never going back to enhancement, mages are near impossible to kill if they see me first, same goes for hunters. Give me something I don't care what,be it CC, anti-CC, whatever, I don't care if it makes the class "less distinct" just make me viable. As far as I'm concered we're mail wearing healers, meleers, and casters. That's pretty distinct. Oh yeah, totems, that's pretty distinct too.

Edited, Mar 10th 2008 1:03pm by Draeneipally