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#1 Feb 25 2008 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
So I've been playing my level 25 (now 29) fire mage this weekend because I got tired grinding the BGs for honor on my rogue. Then I noticed it. My pyros, fireblasts, etc are hitting my targets for around 200-350 damage.

After looking at what my rogue has been doing, it's about the same (not including crits and stuff which is usually up around 1500-2000). Why is this?

I mean, I know my gear isn't great yet on my 70 (and yes, I'm working on it like crazy), but isn't there something wrong with this? Shouldn't I be hitting around the upper hundreds-early thousands, without crit?

I've seen other rogues profiles, and I know my hit and crit isn't as bad as some of them out there, but still.

It made me depressed. Any insight?

Edited, Feb 25th 2008 9:13am by xNocturnalSunx
#2 Feb 25 2008 at 6:16 AM Rating: Decent
xNocturnalSunx wrote:
Shouldn't I be hitting around the upper hundreds-early thousands, without crit?

Edited, Feb 25th 2008 9:13am by xNocturnalSunx


What kind of attack are you referring to, SS, Backstab(I hope not), or hemo?

I would say in PvP gear...proabably not. In PvE gear, I would say it would depend on what kind of gear you have. My SS's raid buffed crit for around 2.0 - 2.4k, non-buffed for around 1400-1800.
#3 Feb 25 2008 at 6:33 AM Rating: Good
Salwrathis wrote:
xNocturnalSunx wrote:
Shouldn't I be hitting around the upper hundreds-early thousands, without crit?

Edited, Feb 25th 2008 9:13am by xNocturnalSunx


What kind of attack are you referring to, SS, Backstab(I hope not), or hemo?

I would say in PvP gear...proabably not. In PvE gear, I would say it would depend on what kind of gear you have. My SS's raid buffed crit for around 2.0 - 2.4k, non-buffed for around 1400-1800.


Out of those three definitely SS. I mean, it's not around 300 dmg all the time, it's about split half and half between around there and around 600 dmg. And with what you said, it makes me even more depressed. lol.

I don't have any PVP gear yet, only PVE blues (minus my gloves which are still green and need to replace as well). AP around 1150-1175?, Hit around 135-150 (I think) and crit above 19%. I'll have to check for sure once the armory is back up.
#4 Feb 25 2008 at 6:34 AM Rating: Good
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I'm slightly ahead of you PVE gear-wise Nocturnal, and my auto-attacks hit for around 400, SS for 500-600 with crits as high as 1400.

The difference between the 2 is as long as you're alive you can sit there and spam auto-attacks and SS, whereas eventually that mage is going to run out of mana.

Yes, at level 70 mages can throw out a 1500 dmg non-crit fireball, but in the 2-2.5 seconds it takes them to cast that you will auto-attack MH for 400, auto-attack OH for 200, and SS for 500.
#5 Feb 25 2008 at 6:35 AM Rating: Good
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I'm slightly ahead of you PVE gear-wise Nocturnal, and my auto-attacks hit for around 400, SS for 500-600 with crits as high as 1400.

The difference between the 2 is as long as you're alive you can sit there and spam auto-attacks and SS, whereas eventually that mage is going to run out of mana.

Yes, at level 70 mages can throw out a 1500 dmg non-crit fireball, but in the 2-2.5 seconds it takes them to cast that you will auto-attack MH for 400, auto-attack OH for 200, and SS for 500.


Never really thought about it that way. Makes me feel a bit better, just it's still sad that my 29 mage can do as much damage than my 70 rogue in a set amount of time, ya know? lol
#6 Feb 25 2008 at 7:04 AM Rating: Decent
xNocturnalSunx wrote:
AP around 1150-1175?


This is the reason for your low Sinister Strikes. Unbuffed my AP is in the 1700's, buffed in the 2000-2500 range. AP raises your top-end damage, thus resulting in higher attacks/crits.

Don't be discouraged, as your gear is upgraded(kara/badge gear), you will see a significant increase in your damage output.

Edited to fix a quote.

Edited, Feb 25th 2008 9:09am by Salwrathis
#7 Feb 25 2008 at 7:05 AM Rating: Decent
Mage damage is ...boom...boom... whereas rogue damage comes hard and fast all the time. Assuming equal gear levels you should and probably are outdamaging a mage on a stationary target, although this becomes far more noticeable at higher gear levels (because melee scale far better than casters).

Don't worry about it.
#8 Feb 25 2008 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
I did a pretty good job at guessing the approximations of my stats :

AP - 1178
Hit - 144
Crit - 19.11%

unbuffed
#9 Feb 25 2008 at 7:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Totally random tangent: after I specced ShS this weekend, I was in a EotS defending the Draenei Ruins. It came down to me against a frost mage, and I had all my CDs up, so I was ready for a fight. I whittled him down (<3 ShS. No more kiting!), but he started a shatter combo on me.

Cheat Death procced, and I Stepped behind him, about 500hp left to his 20%. Then, a big yellow "2800" flashed on my screen and he died. I was so in awe, I had to check my combat log to see what the hell it was. Sure enough, Hemo crit for 2800 damage.

Pwned!
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#10 Feb 25 2008 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
Awesome. I get excited with anything about 1k let alone 2800 (even though I think the most is around 1800-2000, that I've gotten). lol

#11 Feb 25 2008 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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My mutilates are hitting about 400-500, critting for just over 1k and envenom and eviscerate have topped 2k for me.
#12 Feb 25 2008 at 11:34 AM Rating: Decent
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It's impractical to compare mage damage spells with rogue instant abilities.

Why?

All mage damage comes from individual damage spells they cast, where a majority of rogue damage comes from white damage.
#13 Feb 25 2008 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
Thanks for the replies. You guys always seem to know what to say *swoon*. =P

I'll just continue to grind honor/rep/etc until I'm able to upgrade my gear ... sad looking blues and green
#14 Feb 25 2008 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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You probably already know this, but looking at your armory link, the Crystalline Kopesh is a pretty weak MH. One of the higher-level "of the Bandit" swords would almost certainly give you a big damage boost. They're not incredibly common, but keep checking the AH and see if you can pick one up.

I see you've got the S1 offhand already, which is a good start for your overall damage (but won't affect your instant attacks, obviously). If you get the S1 mainhand too, it will give you a far bigger damage boost than any other gear upgrade - it's about 50% higher DPS than the Crystalline Kopesh, and the increase in base damage is even higher. If it's going to take you some time to get the 18k honor, try to pick up a lvl 69/70 Bandit sword for a cheap short-term boost.
#15 Feb 27 2008 at 4:57 PM Rating: Default
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Also, aim for something slower for your main hand. As those will generally be able to hit much harder.
#16 Feb 28 2008 at 4:55 AM Rating: Good
zhaharik wrote:
You probably already know this, but looking at your armory link, the Crystalline Kopesh is a pretty weak MH. One of the higher-level "of the Bandit" swords would almost certainly give you a big damage boost. They're not incredibly common, but keep checking the AH and see if you can pick one up.

I see you've got the S1 offhand already, which is a good start for your overall damage (but won't affect your instant attacks, obviously). If you get the S1 mainhand too, it will give you a far bigger damage boost than any other gear upgrade - it's about 50% higher DPS than the Crystalline Kopesh, and the increase in base damage is even higher. If it's going to take you some time to get the 18k honor, try to pick up a lvl 69/70 Bandit sword for a cheap short-term boost.


Yeah I already knew it. =P. I've been working on honor as of late to get the S1 MH. Once I do that, I'm going to quest and daily for some moola and get mats for Mongoose for both.

But I've calculated how much honor I need to get if I decide to go after all PVP gear (even though I wouldn't be PVPing much in the first place, probably will get the chest or something so I can at least start some Kara runs or something), but for all PVP equipment, I'd need to earn about 77k honor, which doesn't seem as bad as the original 130k that I had calculated.

I do want to run some stuff to get the Abacus and Hourglass as well, but that's on the backburner right now. Luckily for me though, We won the two AVs I was in yesterday, plus the bonus daily. Will be running more tonight, only about 10k more honor until I can get the sword lol. I've only been running a few days, maybe twice per day. That's why it's taking some time. But I'm in no rush, just enjoying everything.

I'm getting there. Slowly but surely.

Edited, Feb 28th 2008 7:57am by xNocturnalSunx
#17 Feb 28 2008 at 5:04 AM Rating: Good
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
I'm getting there. Slowly but surely.



That's the spirit.

As soon as you replace your current MH by the S1 sword and probably do around 40% more damage (just a guess), you'll know it was all worth it.
#18 Feb 28 2008 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
Yeah, I'll be glad to have two "purples" under myself (even if they're just my weapons). I've got to get rid of those silly green gloves though lol.
#19 Feb 28 2008 at 9:18 AM Rating: Decent
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AtrophyGFour wrote:
My mutilates are hitting about 400-500, critting for just over 1k and envenom and eviscerate have topped 2k for me.


Atrophy - do you mean you mutilates are hitting total for 1k? Or each dagger for 1K? My mutilate crits both around 2k-2.2k on plate, and 2.5k on softies.
#20 Feb 28 2008 at 9:34 AM Rating: Default
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ThomasMagnum wrote:
AtrophyGFour wrote:
My mutilates are hitting about 400-500, critting for just over 1k and envenom and eviscerate have topped 2k for me.


Atrophy - do you mean you mutilates are hitting total for 1k? Or each dagger for 1K? My mutilate crits both around 2k-2.2k on plate, and 2.5k on softies.

Considering his armory, I'd say that's reasonable.
#21 Mar 24 2008 at 5:22 AM Rating: Good
Just an update on my progress, as I didn't want to start a new thread to take up space:

I've replaced my MH with the Vindicator's Brand at the moment. Although not the s1 MH, it's definitely an improvement and I can see it.

I've also replaced my green gloves for the Glad ones. But I did notice my hit and AP go down with replacing them...

Stat wise is getting a tad better. After replacing the above sword I did see a difference in my performance.

AP: 1166
Hit: 146
Crit: 21.51%

Hopefully I can improve more within the next few weeks.
#22 Mar 24 2008 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Count the seconds it takes your mage to fire off a pyro and then a fireblast, etc.

Now take those seconds and countdown with your rogue's attack sequence and compare the damage.

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