BM with a touch of SV?Follow

I suppose you could go 41/3/17 or 41/0/20 (for trap mastery and clever traps). You'd lose quite a bit of damage though (crit, efficiency or imp Mark, and mortal strikes) and gain a flat 3% increased damage/3% crit damage from the SV talents. Going less than 41 points into BM isn't an option though (and still be a BM hunter) - TBW is just that good.

Personally, I don't think a mere 10% reduction in resists and increased duration is worth the dps trade-off, but you could always try it out and see how it works out (especially if you are having difficulties trapping).

I figure that this build is about the best you could get for what you're looking for. http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=ctbM0gxRwuVomZIhzMho

You're definately sacrificing DPS, but you get clever traps and a point into trap mastery. I've never had a lot of problems with resists when I've been asked to trap in Kara, but an extra point won't hurt. If you're not hit capped and especially since you don't have mortal shots go with surefooted as necessary to get capped.

Honestly though, there aren't that many pulls in Kara that require trapping. If you can chain trap effectively as 41/20 (and if you're 70 and looking at Kara you better damned well be able to) you shouldn't really have any problems.

The first couple of Moroes attempts had a pretty steep learning curve for me, but once I really realized I was CC first, DPS second then I didn't have any real problems.

Misdirect to the mages (or whomever) until they learn to stop breaking your cc. ;)

What Aethien said. I am one of the most fervent supporters of a BM/SV build, but just not for raiding. For anything outside a Raid, BM/SV will provide ultimate survivability and utility combination. But your dps will suffer from it.

Once you go into Karazhan/Gruul and onwards, your gear should give you enough stats that a BM/MM or SV/MM build will have just as much survivability and far more dps/utility. For a raider, 20 points in MM is pretty much a must.

Well, I'd rather see a 5/20/36 build, or other Survival build in Heroics/Five man contents than a BM/Surv build. It will allow for all the utility, while providing EW and decent DPS. BM/Surv in Heroics/Five mans will give utility but less DPS than BM/MM or Surv/MM.

I wouldn't bar a BM/Surv from Heroics/Five mans, but it is sub-optimal.

Leveling my hunter as my first character, my original research had my mind made up on a BM/SV build of 41/0/20 as the best for me. I did almost all my leveling to 70 questing and grinding (more grinding than questing because I had this neurotic need to keep all my pets as close to my level as possible and too much questing would put too much of a gap between me and my pets).

I would say that, if you are adequately geared, your dps output is decent. I would often be in the top 4 on any damage meter in 5-mans (though mostly 3rd or 4th). Your pet is an absolute monster and a true force to be reckoned with. And the few talents you can get from SV to improve trapping aren't bad either, but the truly impressive talents that are Survival's bread and butter are much further down the tree (and definitely not worth getting at the expense of The Beast Within if you are mostly BM specced).

As noted by others, the BM/SV spec is really just for solo utility. When it comes to 5-mans, 10-mans, 25-mans, it just won't cut the mustard for dps. I am SV/MM, 0/21/40, and while others also noted that a Survival hunter is nice it is indeed not exactly a make-or-break spec in any group situation because any half-decent hunter can chain trap at least one mob without a single talent point spent into any SV trap talents. Just going SV as your main tree makes that chain trapping far easier.

And when you're tricked out to around 30% crit, the dps you can put out is damn impressive. But so hard to control. I am still learning how to walk that fine line between maximizing my dps output while not getting myself murdered because I just pulled off the tank. Again.

I'm still specced like this.
A few trapping talents taken over extra Hp as with nearly 8k hp unbuffed and -4% dmg taken, i hardly see a reason to get more hp from talents.

edit: my Guild is 5/6 SSC, 3/4 TK and 3/6 ZA and working on Vashj, ZA and kara are only run during weekends by a grouping of alts and mains who feel like it :P

Edited, Mar 13th 2008 9:49am by Aethien

Have you tried an Expose Weakness build for raids? Can have traps, raise the whole group's DPS, and its pretty good dps yourself because you're criting ALL THE TIME.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?5000000000000000000000505201205000000000033303002102302300530300

Edited, Mar 13th 2008 1:59pm by digitalcraft

7/20/34 has been working pretty well. I have been wanted for raids and heroics much more because of my utility and survivability. 9.6k health with the BM part, 30% crit with the MM plus great mana reduction and awesome trapping and hit rating because of the SV. My DPS did suffer though, not terribly though. My AP dropped 200 points but the agility from the SV put it back up 100 points. So, it worked out pretty well for me.

This is my current build:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cVbR0gxRwuVoVMZsh0Gz
41/7/13

I went down far enough into SV to get longer lasting traps and Deterrence (it's usually my 1st 'Oh S#!t' button, before WingClip and run towards the tank.)
The 2 in efficiency I could have put anywhere really, but my mana efficiency is pretty bad, and needs all the help it can get on longer fights.

It is a build for solo / 5-mans, I don't have an Arena team yet, and need to get into a better guild that raids, but I don't want to have to re-spec all the time.
I'm working on my quest / normal instance Blues, and am hoping for a second peice of Beast Lord to drop soon for the set bonus.

And yes, your potential DPS is not as high as a 41/20 raid spec, but skill comes into it as well.
I was doing an SV run with 1 other hunter in the grp, he was the raid spec above. On some pulls we were both asked to trap a mob, and it became clear that I was having a much easier time doing it because of the SV talents. For the rest of the run, if only 1 trap was required, it was me who was called on to do it.
On top of that, my DPS was less than 5DPS under his for the run (according to my SWStats anyway). he was at a similar gear level to me.