A mage in my guild has started using this spec and is trying to argue it is as good (if not better) than deep fire (2/48/11 or 10/48/3). He has just over 1k fire damage with the build (only 40 spell hit though b/c "it isn't that important" and his 12k mana pool is better apparently). What are some arguments here, for or against? I am 2/48/11 spell hit capped w/ 982 +fire dmg unbuffed and blow him away.
I know deep arcane used to be king, but after some nerfs fire is still the way to go for max dmg, right?
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Well, that mage is wrong AND stupid. Spell hit is the MOST important stat raiding mages need. No hits = no damage. You can have +2000 damage for all I care, I'll still out DPS you if you only have 40 spell hit.
As for the talent build, anything over 40 points (41 if you like Slow, I never did) is just a waste. Please, get a link of it so we can all have a good laugh.
I recently respecced 2/48/11 and I've increased my damage output by a ton. It really is the best spec out there for a raiding mage, assuming you don't eat through all your mana right away. 2/48/11 is the only way to go for maximum damage.
Get someone with a damage meter and post his low DPS. If he doesn't change his ways, honestly he's not worth your guild's time.
As for the talent build, anything over 40 points (41 if you like Slow, I never did) is just a waste. Please, get a link of it so we can all have a good laugh.
I recently respecced 2/48/11 and I've increased my damage output by a ton. It really is the best spec out there for a raiding mage, assuming you don't eat through all your mana right away. 2/48/11 is the only way to go for maximum damage.
Get someone with a damage meter and post his low DPS. If he doesn't change his ways, honestly he's not worth your guild's time.
I wont link his armory, but this is how he is currently built.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oixVcofzxIuioZVhM0o
Edited, Feb 23rd 2008 9:11pm by Mhog
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oixVcofzxIuioZVhM0o
Edited, Feb 23rd 2008 9:11pm by Mhog
Scholar
34 posts
Pretty solid build there, and one that I have seen more often since the IV talent was introduced.
When clearcast procs, pop IV, AP, AM for some very nice damage, especially if each missile crits :)
Basically, its the arcane equivalent to the 2/48/11 fire build. The fire build will pump out more damage overall though.
As for spell hit, arcane mages only need 76 spell hit, (thanks to the arcane focus and arcane subtly talents), so he could have been referring to that when he said hit isn't that important. However, 40 is defiantly way too low.
When clearcast procs, pop IV, AP, AM for some very nice damage, especially if each missile crits :)
Basically, its the arcane equivalent to the 2/48/11 fire build. The fire build will pump out more damage overall though.
As for spell hit, arcane mages only need 76 spell hit, (thanks to the arcane focus and arcane subtly talents), so he could have been referring to that when he said hit isn't that important. However, 40 is defiantly way too low.
No, the spell hit comment was before he went arcane, saying it wasn't important in general, not just for mages, but anybody, and I don't like trying to talk to a wall, so it doesn't do much good.
Scholar
34 posts
Hmm well that's unfortunate that he is being so stubborn. My only advise would be to show him the damage meters. As you said, you're hit capped, and he is way under the cap, so you will be blowing him away.
Dose not matter what the build is or how much + damage you have, spell hit is the MOST important stat for a raiding mage.
Dose not matter what the build is or how much + damage you have, spell hit is the MOST important stat for a raiding mage.
50 points in Arcane without even having Magic Attunement to offer some support to the raid? o.O
lol @ Arcane Fortitude
27 posts
ok i know you guys are going to have a rant at me but I'm gonna say it anyway i am a 50/0/11 mage and it is a grate spec but you do need the stats to pull it of, it is very mana heavy, but it doesn't need as much hit rating as frost or fire i can get away with 60 in raids and still be in the top 3 dps of our guild, where the fire mages are never up there
shadya wrote:
ok i know you guys are going to have a rant at me but I'm gonna say it anyway i am a 50/0/11 mage and it is a grate spec but you do need the stats to pull it of, it is very mana heavy, but it doesn't need as much hit rating as frost or fire i can get away with 60 in raids and still be in the top 3 dps of our guild, where the fire mages are never up there
can you post some WWS (wow web stats) to back that up? Are your fire/frost mages hit capped? What is the gear/skill differencial? Are you all in the same party? What are you using as your primary nuke?
27 posts
ok well here is my armory http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ahn%27Qiraj&n=Ahzam
as for gear and skill i am class leader of the guild but there can gear you can look for you self on armory. My main style of play is to arcane missiles to save mana and make to sure i wont pull when i go full out, as soon as the tanks got a good amount of aggro i will cast 2 arcane blasts to get me up to speed, then use icy vains, arcane power , and trinket then continue using arcane blast they norm hit for 2.5k and crit for just under 5k with the buffs (1.8k and 2.8k crit without) the damage really stacks up when you casting it every 1.25 sec. as for gropes I'm norm put in with a shadow priest, resto shaman, fire mage and some times a boomkin or ele shaman depending.
Any way i don't really mind if you lot hate the spec i find it good fun and it worth a try when you get it right it lots of fun when you get it wrong it sucks.
Edited, Feb 25th 2008 5:41pm by shadya
as for gear and skill i am class leader of the guild but there can gear you can look for you self on armory. My main style of play is to arcane missiles to save mana and make to sure i wont pull when i go full out, as soon as the tanks got a good amount of aggro i will cast 2 arcane blasts to get me up to speed, then use icy vains, arcane power , and trinket then continue using arcane blast they norm hit for 2.5k and crit for just under 5k with the buffs (1.8k and 2.8k crit without) the damage really stacks up when you casting it every 1.25 sec. as for gropes I'm norm put in with a shadow priest, resto shaman, fire mage and some times a boomkin or ele shaman depending.
Any way i don't really mind if you lot hate the spec i find it good fun and it worth a try when you get it right it lots of fun when you get it wrong it sucks.
Edited, Feb 25th 2008 5:41pm by shadya
Quote:
Well, that mage is wrong AND stupid.
LMAO. Any mage that discounts spell +hit is an idiot... nuf said. I am deep arcane spec for PvP... this build blows big sticky chunks for PvE, but I have a great time with my MSD & LC blowing people up in PvP. Especially good for 1v1 combat. If there's a healer around, it's insane, but I imagine that's with a lot of classes (save my poor pally, who should be just healing anyways). So, my 42/19/0 build has 1075 damage unbuffed, but I still wouldn't take it anywhere near a raid without respeccing to something more raid friendly.
Quote:
ok well here is my armory http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-...amp;n=Ahzam
as for gear and skill i am class leader of the guild but there can gear you can look for you self on armory. My main style of play is to arcane missiles to save mana and make to sure i wont pull when i go full out, as soon as the tanks got a good amount of aggro i will cast 2 arcane blasts to get me up to speed, then use icy vains, arcane power , and trinket then continue using arcane blast they norm hit for 2.5k and crit for just under 5k with the buffs (1.8k and 2.8k crit without) the damage really stacks up when you casting it every 1.25 sec. as for gropes I'm norm put in with a shadow priest, resto shaman, fire mage and some times a boomkin or ele shaman depending.
as for gear and skill i am class leader of the guild but there can gear you can look for you self on armory. My main style of play is to arcane missiles to save mana and make to sure i wont pull when i go full out, as soon as the tanks got a good amount of aggro i will cast 2 arcane blasts to get me up to speed, then use icy vains, arcane power , and trinket then continue using arcane blast they norm hit for 2.5k and crit for just under 5k with the buffs (1.8k and 2.8k crit without) the damage really stacks up when you casting it every 1.25 sec. as for gropes I'm norm put in with a shadow priest, resto shaman, fire mage and some times a boomkin or ele shaman depending.
I checked out your armory. The only thing I don't like about your build is that you waste 10 points to get a small haste buff. I'd say that +haste gear would be better and you could get much more utility of those 11 points in fire. Also, do not go near a raid without your shadow priest/shaman with mana tide. On long fights you get OOM pretty quickly. That said... I haven't raided on my mage since the mana gem upgrade happened, which could extend your ability to do dps. However, just because you can do a decent amount of dps with that build does not mean it is the ideal build for your class (in other words, even if you are #1 on the damage meters all the time, you are not living up to your full potential). That's the only issue I have with that, especially with you being a class leader.
Economics teaches us that there is a price for everything done and not done... that not done is an 'opportunity cost'. Your opportunity cost for this build is damage.
Amaiya wrote:
50 points in Arcane without even having Magic Attunement to offer some support to the raid? o.O
I actually don't think I've ever seen a mage really use the Amplify/Dampen (and I'm a little confused about them myself).
Maybe amplify on something like the HK tank or Gruul where it's all physical damage?
Dampen on something like Curator or Shade?
How badly does dampen gimp the healing then?
(sorry about the derail)
ktangent wrote:
Quote:
ok well here is my armory http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-...amp;n=Ahzam
as for gear and skill i am class leader of the guild but there can gear you can look for you self on armory. My main style of play is to arcane missiles to save mana and make to sure i wont pull when i go full out, as soon as the tanks got a good amount of aggro i will cast 2 arcane blasts to get me up to speed, then use icy vains, arcane power , and trinket then continue using arcane blast they norm hit for 2.5k and crit for just under 5k with the buffs (1.8k and 2.8k crit without) the damage really stacks up when you casting it every 1.25 sec. as for gropes I'm norm put in with a shadow priest, resto shaman, fire mage and some times a boomkin or ele shaman depending.
as for gear and skill i am class leader of the guild but there can gear you can look for you self on armory. My main style of play is to arcane missiles to save mana and make to sure i wont pull when i go full out, as soon as the tanks got a good amount of aggro i will cast 2 arcane blasts to get me up to speed, then use icy vains, arcane power , and trinket then continue using arcane blast they norm hit for 2.5k and crit for just under 5k with the buffs (1.8k and 2.8k crit without) the damage really stacks up when you casting it every 1.25 sec. as for gropes I'm norm put in with a shadow priest, resto shaman, fire mage and some times a boomkin or ele shaman depending.
I checked out your armory. The only thing I don't like about your build is that you waste 10 points to get a small haste buff. I'd say that +haste gear would be better and you could get much more utility of those 11 points in fire. Also, do not go near a raid without your shadow priest/shaman with mana tide. On long fights you get OOM pretty quickly. That said... I haven't raided on my mage since the mana gem upgrade happened, which could extend your ability to do dps. However, just because you can do a decent amount of dps with that build does not mean it is the ideal build for your class (in other words, even if you are #1 on the damage meters all the time, you are not living up to your full potential). That's the only issue I have with that, especially with you being a class leader.
Economics teaches us that there is a price for everything done and not done... that not done is an 'opportunity cost'. Your opportunity cost for this build is damage.
If you have the mana regen in your group to be doing straight arcane blasts, then that would be the highest dps available (from what I understand), albeit by far the most mana intensive.
Just an update on that mage:
After raiding in the eye last night, when he finally bailed on the raid he was 13th in damage, 1 spot below the main tank. Apparently a focus macro for sheeping isn't very important either, he and another mage came without one, causing a little confusion during trash pulls.
(We had to 22 man it, few people didn't show up)
I was 3rd in damage btw
After raiding in the eye last night, when he finally bailed on the raid he was 13th in damage, 1 spot below the main tank. Apparently a focus macro for sheeping isn't very important either, he and another mage came without one, causing a little confusion during trash pulls.
(We had to 22 man it, few people didn't show up)
I was 3rd in damage btw
Quote:
1 spot below the main tank
LMAO... hopefully this will lead him to consider his gear/spec choices....but, probably not.
27 posts
well i have tried frost,i liked it for farming but thats about it i did level as fire and did enjoy it but i tried arcane just to see what it was like and just fell in love with it, i have speced back to fire lots mainly for one part of kara but never got any where near the dps i get with arcane. arcane spec is very mana heavy yes and you do need a huge mana pool to keep it up but there are a lot of nice factors of it ,30% less aggro , 60% of you mana regen while casting when you got mage amour on , more hit chance, less dmg taken, and more resistance if speced for it. i'm also quite sure that not many of you have tried arcane
Edited, Feb 25th 2008 5:29pm by shadya
Edited, Feb 25th 2008 5:29pm by shadya
Well he did respec...he is now http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?2300052300230010000000050522100030233005310500000000000000000000000 and I am even more confused by this one. Atleast before he his 40 spell hit was closer to cap with arcane talents. WTF is supposed to be accomplished by this one?
Mhog wrote:
Well he did respec...he is now http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?2300052300230010000000050522100030233005310500000000000000000000000 and I am even more confused by this one. Atleast before he his 40 spell hit was closer to cap with arcane talents. WTF is supposed to be accomplished by this one?
looks like he is just throwing points into random places.
send him to: http://www.manoutoftime.org/staticpages/index.php/tcom
that should help.
@ shadya, I have tried out arcane, it is not too bad, but sometimes I am not lucky enough to have enough mana regen to afford to straight arcane blast my targets to death (even with gems, evoc, potions, etc). 5-mans and 10-mans probably work fine, but on an 8-minute boss fight, it just doesn't happen.
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