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Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
I'm sorry, but I find my leveling experiences to have been very different from yours. I've leveled up a mage as frost and another as fire, and I found neither one boring.
As a mage, I have to cast and cast and then root and run around, avoiding adds in the area, and cast it again to kill. Every fight is either satisfying in a quick kill with high numbers or exciting in a frantic run to not get hit. It's much more fun to me than eating blows as a melee class and eating after, or worse-- playing a pet class with no attention. I've leveled 2 hunters to 20, deleted them both because it was just so boring playing with a tank everywhere.
I hate playing my low-level warlock right now, and have her spec planned out to be Imp/Felhound Sacrifice, but I was thinking of doing Drain Tanking.
Anyway, if you're level 34 and drinking after every two fights, then maybe you are just simply too low on spirit or intellect. I know mages don't really concentrate on their spirit, but perhaps you should try it. I did that with my frost mage, and it was very satisfying how little downtime I had.
Either that, or perhaps you should try a fire mage, where you cast two fireball crits and move on.
As a mage, I have to cast and cast and then root and run around, avoiding adds in the area, and cast it again to kill. Every fight is either satisfying in a quick kill with high numbers or exciting in a frantic run to not get hit. It's much more fun to me than eating blows as a melee class and eating after, or worse-- playing a pet class with no attention. I've leveled 2 hunters to 20, deleted them both because it was just so boring playing with a tank everywhere.
I hate playing my low-level warlock right now, and have her spec planned out to be Imp/Felhound Sacrifice, but I was thinking of doing Drain Tanking.
Anyway, if you're level 34 and drinking after every two fights, then maybe you are just simply too low on spirit or intellect. I know mages don't really concentrate on their spirit, but perhaps you should try it. I did that with my frost mage, and it was very satisfying how little downtime I had.
Either that, or perhaps you should try a fire mage, where you cast two fireball crits and move on.
You must remember that pre-TBC there is very little +damage gear available, despite Blizzard's latest changes to low level content. Two fireball crits would rarely happen, seeing as I have a crit chance of around 11% with my Fire build (level 34). Even with Shatter I rarely had two consecutive crits on a frozen target.
It's true that you need to be a lot more on your toes while fighting as a Mage. You can't just send in the pet and go AFK for a while. I found out after sending a Frostbolt at a target and then Alt-Tabbing out to Windows to watch a video on YouTube. I do this all the time on my Warlock, Druid and Hunter. Cast one or two spells and then Alt-Tab out to post here or surf the net. How'd you think I got this many posts?
I mean, it's not that the class isn't challenging, it's just very repetitive. It's the same two spells I use, because anything else would drain me dry in a moment. It's not like on my Hunter where I can blow everything on one mob and then auto-attack the next two to regain mana.
Maybe it's the lack of an auto-attack feature that irks me. Being able to wand or auto-slap things to death while the special attacks tick away used to be part of leveling for me. Now I have to control all damage dealt. In a way the Mage class has a lot more micromanagement, I guess.
Oh, the pain of loving a class end-game, but hating every step towards it. It was the exact opposite way with my Warlock.
It's true that you need to be a lot more on your toes while fighting as a Mage. You can't just send in the pet and go AFK for a while. I found out after sending a Frostbolt at a target and then Alt-Tabbing out to Windows to watch a video on YouTube. I do this all the time on my Warlock, Druid and Hunter. Cast one or two spells and then Alt-Tab out to post here or surf the net. How'd you think I got this many posts?
I mean, it's not that the class isn't challenging, it's just very repetitive. It's the same two spells I use, because anything else would drain me dry in a moment. It's not like on my Hunter where I can blow everything on one mob and then auto-attack the next two to regain mana.
Maybe it's the lack of an auto-attack feature that irks me. Being able to wand or auto-slap things to death while the special attacks tick away used to be part of leveling for me. Now I have to control all damage dealt. In a way the Mage class has a lot more micromanagement, I guess.
Oh, the pain of loving a class end-game, but hating every step towards it. It was the exact opposite way with my Warlock.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Quote:
You must remember that pre-TBC there is very little +damage gear available, despite Blizzard's latest changes to low level content. Two fireball crits would rarely happen, seeing as I have a crit chance of around 11% with my Fire build (level 34). Even with Shatter I rarely had two consecutive crits on a frozen target.
It's true that you need to be a lot more on your toes while fighting as a Mage. You can't just send in the pet and go AFK for a while. I found out after sending a Frostbolt at a target and then Alt-Tabbing out to Windows to watch a video on YouTube. I do this all the time on my Warlock, Druid and Hunter. Cast one or two spells and then Alt-Tab out to post here or surf the net. How'd you think I got this many posts?
I mean, it's not that the class isn't challenging, it's just very repetitive. It's the same two spells I use, because anything else would drain me dry in a moment. It's not like on my Hunter where I can blow everything on one mob and then auto-attack the next two to regain mana.
Maybe it's the lack of an auto-attack feature that irks me. Being able to wand or auto-slap things to death while the special attacks tick away used to be part of leveling for me. Now I have to control all damage dealt. In a way the Mage class has a lot more micromanagement, I guess.
Oh, the pain of loving a class end-game, but hating every step towards it. It was the exact opposite way with my Warlock.
It's true that you need to be a lot more on your toes while fighting as a Mage. You can't just send in the pet and go AFK for a while. I found out after sending a Frostbolt at a target and then Alt-Tabbing out to Windows to watch a video on YouTube. I do this all the time on my Warlock, Druid and Hunter. Cast one or two spells and then Alt-Tab out to post here or surf the net. How'd you think I got this many posts?
I mean, it's not that the class isn't challenging, it's just very repetitive. It's the same two spells I use, because anything else would drain me dry in a moment. It's not like on my Hunter where I can blow everything on one mob and then auto-attack the next two to regain mana.
Maybe it's the lack of an auto-attack feature that irks me. Being able to wand or auto-slap things to death while the special attacks tick away used to be part of leveling for me. Now I have to control all damage dealt. In a way the Mage class has a lot more micromanagement, I guess.
Oh, the pain of loving a class end-game, but hating every step towards it. It was the exact opposite way with my Warlock.
This is kinda confusing to me.. You say it's boring, but like to sit there and watch your mobs die with your lock. You say you have to basicly push 2 buttons to kill things, how is that different then hitting "attack" on your pet tool bar then "auto-shot".
If your point is that you prefer to have the game play itself for you rather then actually play the game then the mage class really isn't your bag. That's why bliz made hunters and locks. The point you made about pre-BC gear is true though.. and lvling as frost is going to be a little slower but you really don't die as much as you would fire.
Farming on the other hand in end game is amazing as a fire mage. I went to get some motes of air in SMV and ran into a lock guildie of mine. We have pretty much the same raid gear yet I was killing 2-3 to his 1. Fireball, fireball, fireblast (if needed). Six seconds a kill is great.
By the way, if you think killing mobs is slow with a mage don't every bother rolling a warrior. All good and fun till outlands. I did the hunting quests in Nagrand (first 6) in a little over 2 hours. I actually stopped lvling my war at 67 because I was on those quests.
Mazra wrote:
You must remember that pre-TBC there is very little +damage gear available, despite Blizzard's latest changes to low level content. Two fireball crits would rarely happen, seeing as I have a crit chance of around 11% with my Fire build (level 34). Even with Shatter I rarely had two consecutive crits on a frozen target.
Well, I wasn't actually trying to be literal about the 2-crit thing, but fire mages by level 40 (I realize you're at 34) get Combustion, making crits an often occurance. What I really meant was that you could try the fire tree if you find yourself spending too long grinding.
Mazra wrote:
It's true that you need to be a lot more on your toes while fighting as a Mage. You can't just send in the pet and go AFK for a while. I found out after sending a Frostbolt at a target and then Alt-Tabbing out to Windows to watch a video on YouTube. I do this all the time on my Warlock, Druid and Hunter. Cast one or two spells and then Alt-Tab out to post here or surf the net. How'd you think I got this many posts?
I mean, it's not that the class isn't challenging, it's just very repetitive. It's the same two spells I use, because anything else would drain me dry in a moment. It's not like on my Hunter where I can blow everything on one mob and then auto-attack the next two to regain mana.
Maybe it's the lack of an auto-attack feature that irks me. Being able to wand or auto-slap things to death while the special attacks tick away used to be part of leveling for me. Now I have to control all damage dealt. In a way the Mage class has a lot more micromanagement, I guess.
Oh, the pain of loving a class end-game, but hating every step towards it. It was the exact opposite way with my Warlock.
I mean, it's not that the class isn't challenging, it's just very repetitive. It's the same two spells I use, because anything else would drain me dry in a moment. It's not like on my Hunter where I can blow everything on one mob and then auto-attack the next two to regain mana.
Maybe it's the lack of an auto-attack feature that irks me. Being able to wand or auto-slap things to death while the special attacks tick away used to be part of leveling for me. Now I have to control all damage dealt. In a way the Mage class has a lot more micromanagement, I guess.
Oh, the pain of loving a class end-game, but hating every step towards it. It was the exact opposite way with my Warlock.
Echoing DarkHybridX, I don't really understand what you want then.
Your other classes, you press 5-6 different buttons once per fight, and then sit there.
For the mage, you press 3 ([Main Nuke], Fire Blast, Frost Nova) buttons a total of 5-6 times, and sit after.
It's the same thing, except as a mage, you pay attention the whole fight.
...so how is playing a mage, which even you describe as more challenging than those other classes, more boring, if you don't even pay attention during the fights with the other classes?
What I meant was that the variations in spell rotations as a Warlock are endless. I have an entire ******* of spells and no matter how I combine them, I can't fail. With my Mage I had to spam Frostbolt until the mob died. Sure, I could mix in a Frost Nova, Cone of Cold and Fireblast, but it wasn't mana efficient.
Before I take the discussion any further, though, I'd just like to bring an update. I went Fire last night after reading your reply, Raglu. So far I'm loving it and I have to take back what I said about +damage being needed. One Pyroblast crit and I can wand the mob to death before it even reaches me, thanks to Ignite. And I get a mana refund as well.
So far I can take out 4-5 mobs before I run dangerously low on mana. As opposed to the 2 mobs with Frost.
Thanks for the inspiration, I guess.
Before I take the discussion any further, though, I'd just like to bring an update. I went Fire last night after reading your reply, Raglu. So far I'm loving it and I have to take back what I said about +damage being needed. One Pyroblast crit and I can wand the mob to death before it even reaches me, thanks to Ignite. And I get a mana refund as well.
So far I can take out 4-5 mobs before I run dangerously low on mana. As opposed to the 2 mobs with Frost.
Thanks for the inspiration, I guess.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Mazra wrote:
...Sure, I could mix in a Frost Nova, Cone of Cold and Fireblast, but it wasn't mana efficient...One Pyroblast crit and I can wand the mob to death before it even reaches me, thanks to Ignite. And I get a mana refund as well.
So far I can take out 4-5 mobs before I run dangerously low on mana. As opposed to the 2 mobs with Frost.
So far I can take out 4-5 mobs before I run dangerously low on mana. As opposed to the 2 mobs with Frost.
I'm glad that you're finding it more fun now. :)
However, what I quoted you on right above actually makes me a bit curious, interested, and a SLIGHT bit alarmed.
It used to be in the past that because Frost Spells cost less mana, the tree was regarded to be more mana-conservative. It was said that fire had faster kills and more downtime, while frost had slower kills and less downtime.
Coupling your opposite experience with the other thread here where someone said they had higher PvE grinding DPS with frost due to Shatter/Winter's Chill crits.
So, while I'm pleased that your problem is settled, I now want to re-investigate the lower levels... is it time for my third mage toon?
My experience, from level 1 to 34, is that Frost does cost less mana, but the spells do less damage as well. You rely heavily on Frostbite to proc for faster kills. If you get off a couple of Frostbolt crits, things die fast. Getting those Frostbolt crits, however, is a challenge in itself.
With Fire, a Pyroblast or Fireball crit means I can switch to wanding instead and thus spend less mana. Coupled with the mana return you get when you crit, I spend around the same amount of mana on each spell, but they hit for way more.
I bet Frost becomes a lot more mana efficient when you have some decent crit and spell damage ratings, and when you get deeper into the tree.
With Fire, a Pyroblast or Fireball crit means I can switch to wanding instead and thus spend less mana. Coupled with the mana return you get when you crit, I spend around the same amount of mana on each spell, but they hit for way more.
I bet Frost becomes a lot more mana efficient when you have some decent crit and spell damage ratings, and when you get deeper into the tree.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Frost at lower levels gives the control you desire (slowing the enemies in many ways) at the cost of being able to do the sick damage of fire. I am leveling a frost mage now, and yep.... it takes more frostbolts to make stuff die than if I was fire, but I also am 10x more survivable if the stuff hits the fan. Playing my warlock is much different than my mage in that I have no down time at all. But mages aren't really made. You either like them, or not. That has been my experience, anyways.
Oh...and for monotony... on my warlock, I had to stop using my G15 keyboard for a while because I'd fall asleep while grinding up mobs. I remember the sequence so well, it was so predictable and so boring... ;-) Once I made myself press all the buttons, things went a bit better and now I love my lock. :-)
Oh...and for monotony... on my warlock, I had to stop using my G15 keyboard for a while because I'd fall asleep while grinding up mobs. I remember the sequence so well, it was so predictable and so boring... ;-) Once I made myself press all the buttons, things went a bit better and now I love my lock. :-)
Coming to this discussion late, but Maz I followed my druid (lvl 68) with a mage alt (lvl 47) and I think I got your point: less buttons, more downtime, a general feel of less variety. Druid is a VERY tough act to follow when it comes to sheer anything-can-happen-ness. I don't even compare the two.
The thing with the mage though, for me, is that it doesn't matter if it's the same four spells: those spells are setting people on freaking fire. That's something I personally find really rewarding. :) And I love two-shotting stuff. Playing a squishie class is also forcing me to move & kite, things I haven't really had to worry about for PVE in the past, as I've played mostly melee classes. So there's plenty to keep me entertained. I positively adore my mage.
I think trying a new class works best when there are differences you can embrace. For me, for example, I don't have as many tricks in my bag with my mage as my druid, and I have more downtime, but OTOH I have never gotten bigger crits or taken mobs down as fast. That latter bit is a really fun change for me, and when I just want no-downtime 75 button play, I still have a character for that too.
BTW, glad you're liking fire. I started frost because I was worried about survivability, wasn't having fun, switched over to fire and never looked back. I hear other people say they had the reverse experience. You just gotta find your groove, I guess. :)
Edited, Feb 25th 2008 1:10pm by teacake
The thing with the mage though, for me, is that it doesn't matter if it's the same four spells: those spells are setting people on freaking fire. That's something I personally find really rewarding. :) And I love two-shotting stuff. Playing a squishie class is also forcing me to move & kite, things I haven't really had to worry about for PVE in the past, as I've played mostly melee classes. So there's plenty to keep me entertained. I positively adore my mage.
I think trying a new class works best when there are differences you can embrace. For me, for example, I don't have as many tricks in my bag with my mage as my druid, and I have more downtime, but OTOH I have never gotten bigger crits or taken mobs down as fast. That latter bit is a really fun change for me, and when I just want no-downtime 75 button play, I still have a character for that too.
BTW, glad you're liking fire. I started frost because I was worried about survivability, wasn't having fun, switched over to fire and never looked back. I hear other people say they had the reverse experience. You just gotta find your groove, I guess. :)
Edited, Feb 25th 2008 1:10pm by teacake
Another big suggestion.
If you are leveling and not getting hit, you should use mage armor instead of ice/frost armor. I don't know if you have it yet, but I think you do. Frost/Ice armor only really helps your armor and slowing your attackers. You'll notice most mages in the 60's use Molten armor or Mage Armor (Molten for +crit and Mage Armor for the 30% mana regeneration while casting). Mages avoid getting hit and the extra +armor from ice/frost armor isn't enough to warrant using it... so really it is just to slow the attacks of your enemy.
Generally I can get 3 FB's in before a mob gets to me at 69 (putting an enemy at around 45% depending on their Health and if I crit), Frost Nova, run back a bit, FB again and Ice lance as soon as it goes off.... the enemy is dead 98% of the time then. Obviously you don't have ice lance, but before that it was the same except I'd use 2 FB's. Always keep a mana gem on you for those emergency moments when a monster resisted more spells than you expected and make sure to stick with yellow mobs and below. Oranges will resist WAY too much and be too mana-hungry to kill making your downtime horrendous.
If you are leveling and not getting hit, you should use mage armor instead of ice/frost armor. I don't know if you have it yet, but I think you do. Frost/Ice armor only really helps your armor and slowing your attackers. You'll notice most mages in the 60's use Molten armor or Mage Armor (Molten for +crit and Mage Armor for the 30% mana regeneration while casting). Mages avoid getting hit and the extra +armor from ice/frost armor isn't enough to warrant using it... so really it is just to slow the attacks of your enemy.
Generally I can get 3 FB's in before a mob gets to me at 69 (putting an enemy at around 45% depending on their Health and if I crit), Frost Nova, run back a bit, FB again and Ice lance as soon as it goes off.... the enemy is dead 98% of the time then. Obviously you don't have ice lance, but before that it was the same except I'd use 2 FB's. Always keep a mana gem on you for those emergency moments when a monster resisted more spells than you expected and make sure to stick with yellow mobs and below. Oranges will resist WAY too much and be too mana-hungry to kill making your downtime horrendous.
Jiade, you get Mage Armor at level 34 - the level I'm at now. And yes, I'm using it with the Fire build which is probably why I have such little downtime. I used Ice Armor with my Mage to get as many Frostbite procs as possible.
I can't wait until I hit the higher levels and start to get some of the nice Outland gear. Right now, though, I think I'm sticking to Fire until at least level 50.
Thanks for all the comments. Really appreciate the friendliness considering it was a rant thread.
I can't wait until I hit the higher levels and start to get some of the nice Outland gear. Right now, though, I think I'm sticking to Fire until at least level 50.
Thanks for all the comments. Really appreciate the friendliness considering it was a rant thread.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Thread title was misleading, I figured you'd be ranting about getting crit for 3420 ;)
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