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Seriously, Caldone...
Your jaunt as BM failed. And it wasn't the specc's fault. Somehow, somewhere, you fUcked up. Anything else just isn't possible. You are the only Hunter ever to have found BM less functional than MM while soloing. You are the only Hunter to have found a BM pet less of a tank than a MM pet. You are the only Hunter that considers MM a higher DPS specc than BM.
It just doesn't work that way. No matter what kind of personal playstyle you have, BM is going to outDPS MM unless you really suck at spamming a shot rotation. BM is always going to outperform MM in soloing, unless you really suck at threat management. BM will (until there's any major changes in the talent trees) outperform MM in almost every single aspect of WoW. Some PvP situations will be easier if you are MM.
You are a relic, Caldone. A Dinosaur that just won't admit that he's stuck in a tar pit. If you ever actually played BM as it is supposed to be played... well, you wouldn't be speccing MM again.
Your jaunt as BM failed. And it wasn't the specc's fault. Somehow, somewhere, you fUcked up. Anything else just isn't possible. You are the only Hunter ever to have found BM less functional than MM while soloing. You are the only Hunter to have found a BM pet less of a tank than a MM pet. You are the only Hunter that considers MM a higher DPS specc than BM.
It just doesn't work that way. No matter what kind of personal playstyle you have, BM is going to outDPS MM unless you really suck at spamming a shot rotation. BM is always going to outperform MM in soloing, unless you really suck at threat management. BM will (until there's any major changes in the talent trees) outperform MM in almost every single aspect of WoW. Some PvP situations will be easier if you are MM.
You are a relic, Caldone. A Dinosaur that just won't admit that he's stuck in a tar pit. If you ever actually played BM as it is supposed to be played... well, you wouldn't be speccing MM again.
Quote:
If you ever actually played BM as it is supposed to be played... well, you wouldn't be speccing MM again.
no way you can`t just force a spec on someone i mean if you hate the way bm plays then why on earth would you be speccing it people should play what is most fun to them mm may be that to him and am in no way saying his mm pet can tank better then a bm pet but people need to play what they enjoy because it just turns into a 2nd job for alot of people.
Warlord scottyjames wrote:
no way you can`t just force a spec on someone i mean if you hate the way bm plays then why on earth would you be speccing it people should play what is most fun to them mm may be that to him and am in no way saying his mm pet can tank better then a bm pet but people need to play what they enjoy because it just turns into a 2nd job for alot of people.
...
...
Do you actually try making your posts illegible? I got through two lines of that, and my brain tried to bleed out of my ears in order to escape the horror I was subjecting it to. Periods, cUmrag, use them.
Warlord scottyjames wrote:
Quote:
If you ever actually played BM as it is supposed to be played... well, you wouldn't be speccing MM again.
no way you can`t just force a spec on someone i mean if you hate the way bm plays then why on earth would you be speccing it people should play what is most fun to them mm may be that to him and am in no way saying his mm pet can tank better then a bm pet but people need to play what they enjoy because it just turns into a 2nd job for alot of people.
Wow, this is the example of how to make the readers head implode, from the void of sheer stupidity that run on left you with.
Edited, Feb 24th 2008 5:58am by Elustriel
I think something people need to take into account here is how little dps a rogue or warrior really gets from their ranged weapons. Sure, every little bit helps, but who is that going to help more? I personally think the Sunfury looks a lot cooler, but I'd roll on the rifle if I ever saw it drop again. I saw it drop once and I lost the roll - to another hunter, at least.
Anyway, I've been browsing the warrior forums, and I started a discussion over there about plate dps gear. I was directed to a site called maxdps.com, which, unfortunately, does not have any options for hunters. But you can input your stats in, and it will tell you what items are upgrades for you. My warrior, for instance, has these, which give me about 11.22 of my dps. If I upgraded to the Wolfslayer, I'd gain less than one dps. And you have to admit that the knives are pretty easy to get.
For a rogue it will be a better upgrade, true, but by how much? For a rogue that has some pretty standard stats, it would increase dps by a little over 3.
Now, according to the hunter dps spreadsheet, my dps with my Sunfury would increase by about 23 if I got the Wolfslayer.
This is under some specific conditions, I know, but the stats on those weapons don't affect melee classes as much as they do hunters. I think Hunters should ALWAYS get priority on ranged weapons, as long as they know their stuff.
Anyway, I've been browsing the warrior forums, and I started a discussion over there about plate dps gear. I was directed to a site called maxdps.com, which, unfortunately, does not have any options for hunters. But you can input your stats in, and it will tell you what items are upgrades for you. My warrior, for instance, has these, which give me about 11.22 of my dps. If I upgraded to the Wolfslayer, I'd gain less than one dps. And you have to admit that the knives are pretty easy to get.
For a rogue it will be a better upgrade, true, but by how much? For a rogue that has some pretty standard stats, it would increase dps by a little over 3.
Now, according to the hunter dps spreadsheet, my dps with my Sunfury would increase by about 23 if I got the Wolfslayer.
This is under some specific conditions, I know, but the stats on those weapons don't affect melee classes as much as they do hunters. I think Hunters should ALWAYS get priority on ranged weapons, as long as they know their stuff.
choice 1, with the aditional note that he should spec BM NOW!
MM is either for people that play arena or people that are stuck in pre-tBC like Caldone.
MM is either for people that play arena or people that are stuck in pre-tBC like Caldone.
Caldone the Shady wrote:
And don't go on saying "but you don't like other specs so maybe you wanted it to fail so were lookign for an excuse"
How about saying "but you only stayed BM for three days, so there's no way you gave it any kind of fair trial run"? Hell, three days of play is hardly enough time to get used to your new hotkeys, much less adapt to a new play style. So yeah, it does come across as though you were just looking for an excuse.
Caldone the Shady wrote:
I have thoroughly been through this argument before with several people. All I did was SS and Auto and he lost aggro.
Caldone the Shady wrote:
Also, I have stated once I get geared for it I might go SV. But until I get rid of my Ebon set, MM gives me the best personal damage, as well as the best raid damage.
Edit: Typos
Edited, Feb 25th 2008 6:44am by Kompera
I'd like to point out that if you have the mana regen (ie: spriest or tankadin) the 3:2 rotation is higher dps then the 1:1 for BM. At this point the dps you'll get from sunfury is higher then that of Wolfslayer.
If you haven't heard of the 3:2, it involves clipping one of your auto's slightly to get an overall increase in dps. it has to do with the new autoshot mechanisms. steady-steady-auto-steady-auto. This actually usually happens if you just spam steady, unless your weapon is quite slow, or fast enough that you can never get two steady's off.
It's essentially more dps for more mana, but with a paladin our steady's only cost 25 mana, so it's not really a big deal.
Also, stop ragging on caldone. Yes, he's MM, no that's not going to change. Who cares? Although I thought you never actually raided as BM caldone?
Edited, Feb 25th 2008 12:34pm by Xsarus
If you haven't heard of the 3:2, it involves clipping one of your auto's slightly to get an overall increase in dps. it has to do with the new autoshot mechanisms. steady-steady-auto-steady-auto. This actually usually happens if you just spam steady, unless your weapon is quite slow, or fast enough that you can never get two steady's off.
It's essentially more dps for more mana, but with a paladin our steady's only cost 25 mana, so it's not really a big deal.
Also, stop ragging on caldone. Yes, he's MM, no that's not going to change. Who cares? Although I thought you never actually raided as BM caldone?
Edited, Feb 25th 2008 12:34pm by Xsarus
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You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
I'd like to point out that if you have the mana regen (ie: spriest or tankadin) the 3:2 rotation is higher dps then the 1:1 for BM. At this point the dps you'll get from sunfury is higher then that of Wolfslayer.
As for Caldone, I respect the choice of any player to play how they choose. And it's clear that his raid performance is no issue to his Guild. But when he rails about BM and claims to have given it a fair chance I feel it necessary to point out that he did indeed run back to his MM spec just about as soon as he could. A far cry from giving the BM spec a real trial run, and a record which invalidates his opinion on the matter.
Quote:
Personally, I'd let the rogue or warrior roll on it that time, because the hunter was too nub to be BM at the time. I mean seriously... Who raids as MM?
I do, and do extremely well with that spec.
Got a problem with it?
The best answer so far is who-ever the item would have the biggest upgrade for.
I'd go...
1) rogue
2) Warrior (DPS Spec'd only, otherwise he drops to choice #3)
3) Hunter with SF bow
Caldone the Shady wrote:
Utarius wrote:
Seriously, that was hilarious. Someone disses the bleedin' life out of MM hunters in general, and next post I see you. Ah the small joys of life...
PS. Did miss you! :)
PS. Did miss you! :)
Of course, the way all you damn bastages think, if I don't defend the MM community, who will?
(Just had a thought... the MM community may just consist of me...)
I got your back Caldone. I personally enjoy MM as the tools I have I seem to use more often than the ones in BM.
Kompera wrote:
Caldone the Shady wrote:
I have thoroughly been through this argument before with several people. All I did was SS and Auto and he lost aggro.
There I fixed it for ya. Oh yea and 1 more thing. I still like MM for Silence shot and Scattershot. my 2 reasons to stay MM.
Edited, Feb 25th 2008 8:09am by HitashLevat
Kompera wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
I'd like to point out that if you have the mana regen (ie: spriest or tankadin) the 3:2 rotation is higher dps then the 1:1 for BM. At this point the dps you'll get from sunfury is higher then that of Wolfslayer.
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You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
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Utarius wrote:
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What were we talking about?
What were we talking about?
Question text
| Pie : |    | 16 (24.2%) |
| Cake: | | 19 (28.8%) |
| Total: | 66 |
Discuss.
HitashLevat wrote:
Kompera wrote:
Caldone the Shady wrote:
I have thoroughly been through this argument before with several people. All I did was SS and Auto and he lost aggro.
There I fixed it for ya. Oh yea and 1 more thing. I still like MM for Silence shot and Scattershot. my 2 reasons to stay MM.
Edited, Feb 25th 2008 8:09am by HitashLevat
So, Silencing Shot and Scattershot, hmmm? I ran with a BM/sv build for quite some time, and recognized that I was exchanging some DPS for Talented Traps which were very moderately useful in raids, even if they were very useful in Heroics. But you're exchanging that DPS for two abilities which are hardly useful in either case. In Heroics you'll find some caster mobs you can Silence and pull to a trap, but I LOS them or range them and get the same effect. And Scattershot? How often do you use that in raids or Heroics? As a BM I've got Intimidate in place of Scattershot, and I can't remember the last time I used that in a Heroic or a raid.
Of course, if you're all about the PvP then MM is a fine spec. It's just not as useful for PvE.
Mine are more for PvP reasons to be honest. While the "OMG RED KITTY" is great... warriors just crush your cat and come straight at you. Locks still can throw dots on you all day. healers can still cast their heals... and intimidate doesn't always hit imidiately.
However... I see a lock riding near/by on a mount pop the scatter shot. Now they are disoriented. back up throw a steady auto arc shot at them then, pop silence and now they are stuck without casting ability. run through wingclip/ raptorstrike macro followed with an ice trap. Now they are stuck in a block. if they cant trinket out of it then i get to wind up an aimed shot followed with an auto multi/arc. usually they are /dead and I move on.
Mages are extremely fun in that way. I let them come rush me and as they do silence... no FN for them and they can't use their AE cause they are silenced. then wingclip/raptor macro again move into range auto steady auto scatter. let them block... that is the idea... then I wait. pet still nippin at their invulnerable shield. pop it breaks and they go to move... usually into a trap I have laid next to them on the fly. silence (if its up again.
Similar for shamans who sit there and will try to heal through damage... I just save the scatter to break a critical heal that they are trying to pop off.
I have my reasons why I have become fond of them and use them frequently. I also like being able to conserve ammo. Don't like coming off a grind session with an almost empty quiver with the same amount of loot as I do now with only using maybe 5 max.
True it makes rogues a little tougher to deal with when you don't have the PvP trinket and warriors are real rough but still. I usually get ganked by casters anyway so it helps me.
However... I see a lock riding near/by on a mount pop the scatter shot. Now they are disoriented. back up throw a steady auto arc shot at them then, pop silence and now they are stuck without casting ability. run through wingclip/ raptorstrike macro followed with an ice trap. Now they are stuck in a block. if they cant trinket out of it then i get to wind up an aimed shot followed with an auto multi/arc. usually they are /dead and I move on.
Mages are extremely fun in that way. I let them come rush me and as they do silence... no FN for them and they can't use their AE cause they are silenced. then wingclip/raptor macro again move into range auto steady auto scatter. let them block... that is the idea... then I wait. pet still nippin at their invulnerable shield. pop it breaks and they go to move... usually into a trap I have laid next to them on the fly. silence (if its up again.
Similar for shamans who sit there and will try to heal through damage... I just save the scatter to break a critical heal that they are trying to pop off.
I have my reasons why I have become fond of them and use them frequently. I also like being able to conserve ammo. Don't like coming off a grind session with an almost empty quiver with the same amount of loot as I do now with only using maybe 5 max.
True it makes rogues a little tougher to deal with when you don't have the PvP trinket and warriors are real rough but still. I usually get ganked by casters anyway so it helps me.
NorthAI the Hand wrote:
Seriously, Caldone...
Your jaunt as BM failed. And it wasn't the specc's fault. Somehow, somewhere, you fUcked up. Anything else just isn't possible. You are the only Hunter ever to have found BM less functional than MM while soloing. You are the only Hunter to have found a BM pet less of a tank than a MM pet. You are the only Hunter that considers MM a higher DPS specc than BM.
It just doesn't work that way. No matter what kind of personal playstyle you have, BM is going to outDPS MM unless you really suck at spamming a shot rotation. BM is always going to outperform MM in soloing, unless you really suck at threat management. BM will (until there's any major changes in the talent trees) outperform MM in almost every single aspect of WoW. Some PvP situations will be easier if you are MM.
You are a relic, Caldone. A Dinosaur that just won't admit that he's stuck in a tar pit. If you ever actually played BM as it is supposed to be played... well, you wouldn't be speccing MM again.
Your jaunt as BM failed. And it wasn't the specc's fault. Somehow, somewhere, you fUcked up. Anything else just isn't possible. You are the only Hunter ever to have found BM less functional than MM while soloing. You are the only Hunter to have found a BM pet less of a tank than a MM pet. You are the only Hunter that considers MM a higher DPS specc than BM.
It just doesn't work that way. No matter what kind of personal playstyle you have, BM is going to outDPS MM unless you really suck at spamming a shot rotation. BM is always going to outperform MM in soloing, unless you really suck at threat management. BM will (until there's any major changes in the talent trees) outperform MM in almost every single aspect of WoW. Some PvP situations will be easier if you are MM.
You are a relic, Caldone. A Dinosaur that just won't admit that he's stuck in a tar pit. If you ever actually played BM as it is supposed to be played... well, you wouldn't be speccing MM again.
Lol, seriously... Lol
Soloing and Threat management never mattered as MM, why should it matter when your pet is a big huge beast? I spam Steady/Auto till it is dead, then move on. That pulled aggro from my pet as BM. Something is wrong.
Show me a BM hunter that does as much damage as I do on my server. I don't even have Tier gear, yet the BM hunter in my guild that have S2/S3 Gear don't even do as much damage. In fact, they went MM because of my damage and are now tearing ***.
Must be server related. Everyone else notices improvement while speccing BM instead of MM. What IS your DPS in raids by the way? All of the MM hunters in your guild.
I remember him mentioning 480 to 530 dps on attumen.
It's not really a matter of debate. Going MM won't raise your dps unless you suck at BM and are really good at MM. And considering top dps in BM is hitting a button and going to sleep, this is really hard to believe.
There is one consideration though. With MM you're probably timing your own shots more. If you have bad lag, you will lose a lot of dps with macros. This could be a factor in someones dps going up when going from BM (just macro) to MM. I know a fellow hunter in my guild has almost the same stats, uses the same shot cycle and does quite a bit less dps. The only difference is her latency is really high and mine is low. Now that she's timing her shots (still BM) her dps has increased.
Edited, Feb 26th 2008 2:01pm by Xsarus
It's not really a matter of debate. Going MM won't raise your dps unless you suck at BM and are really good at MM. And considering top dps in BM is hitting a button and going to sleep, this is really hard to believe.
There is one consideration though. With MM you're probably timing your own shots more. If you have bad lag, you will lose a lot of dps with macros. This could be a factor in someones dps going up when going from BM (just macro) to MM. I know a fellow hunter in my guild has almost the same stats, uses the same shot cycle and does quite a bit less dps. The only difference is her latency is really high and mine is low. Now that she's timing her shots (still BM) her dps has increased.
Edited, Feb 26th 2008 2:01pm by Xsarus
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You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
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500 DPS on Attumen? That's a tank 'n' spank fight...
I topped 900 DPS (little higher... like 920-930) on the Warlord in SV (heroic). Pretty nice number for my gear.
Oh, and I never use macros. I can't help but thinking I'll do the same DPS with them as without them, if not better.
I topped 900 DPS (little higher... like 920-930) on the Warlord in SV (heroic). Pretty nice number for my gear.
Oh, and I never use macros. I can't help but thinking I'll do the same DPS with them as without them, if not better.
Utarius wrote:
Oh, and I never use macros. I can't help but thinking I'll do the same DPS with them as without them, if not better.
You're basically right. Cheeky doesn't use macros either (but he does bind Kill Command to all his shots).
I use macros because I have latency issues, though I might just try to force my way through it someday.
Long time ago and my Hunter has turned into a Farm bot while gaining Arena Gear.
If I ever get back into Kara on my Hunter I will give you a more up to date DPS report.
If I ever get back into Kara on my Hunter I will give you a more up to date DPS report.
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