On my rogue alt, I've levelled so far as combat-swords. I just hit level 52 and I had a couple blue daggers sitting in the bank, so for kicks I re-spec'd to ShS.
First I had to spend time leveling my dagger skill up in Searing Gorge (sidenote: apparently pickpocketing is tied to weapon skill, because I had it fail repeatedly on green level mobs).
Now to my question: Can you actually use a ShS to BS combo on a mob? I could not get it work, the mob instantly turns to face me. I even tried using a macro. I mean the whole point of getting behind someone is to backstab, right?
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ShS ->BS in PVEFollow
You can level as BS/Ambush. Leveling and mob killing is designed so easy, I am sure almost ANY spec and strat will work.
However, it is FAR from the fastest way to kill mobs. Full combat, and Muti can kill a mob very very fast.
We say "combat is best for leveling," regarding the speed that you tear through mobs. I would guess that backstab builds are among the slower.
However, it is FAR from the fastest way to kill mobs. Full combat, and Muti can kill a mob very very fast.
We say "combat is best for leveling," regarding the speed that you tear through mobs. I would guess that backstab builds are among the slower.
I realize combat is the best levelling tree, I'm just trying ShS out.
The problem is that ShS, the top talent in the sub tree, seems (to me) to be completely worthless in PVE. The mobs just instantly turn to face me after using ShS. I can gouge the mob and then ShS, but I can also just walk/jump through he mob without wasting the 10 energy. I am wondering if anyone has been able to get a BS off after using ShS on a PVE mob, and if so, how?
The problem is that ShS, the top talent in the sub tree, seems (to me) to be completely worthless in PVE. The mobs just instantly turn to face me after using ShS. I can gouge the mob and then ShS, but I can also just walk/jump through he mob without wasting the 10 energy. I am wondering if anyone has been able to get a BS off after using ShS on a PVE mob, and if so, how?
You missed my point.
Shadowstep daggers sucks.
If you spec Shstep, spec hemo and use a sword or mace in your MH = win.
It works awesome for leveling.
Shadowstep daggers sucks.
If you spec Shstep, spec hemo and use a sword or mace in your MH = win.
It works awesome for leveling.
I run ShS->Ambush (garrote, CS) and have never had a problem with the mob turning on me.
Haven't tried BS although, I really can't see the difference when the requirement is the same for other openers.
I use a macro switch though between daggers when I'm stealthed and Sword (MH) Fist (OH) when in combat. (do decent dps and can drop a mob fairly quick)
Personally I really enjoy ShS for PvE and PvP. The fun of getting frozen down by a mage then, vanishing and ShS them after they blink, dropping them with a second Ambush is kind of entertaining for me.
ShS is a fun build to play IMO.
Good luck!
*Edited: I specced Hemo+ShS
Edited, Feb 21st 2008 1:01pm by FinalMeat
Edited, Feb 21st 2008 1:07pm by FinalMeat
Haven't tried BS although, I really can't see the difference when the requirement is the same for other openers.
I use a macro switch though between daggers when I'm stealthed and Sword (MH) Fist (OH) when in combat. (do decent dps and can drop a mob fairly quick)
Personally I really enjoy ShS for PvE and PvP. The fun of getting frozen down by a mage then, vanishing and ShS them after they blink, dropping them with a second Ambush is kind of entertaining for me.
ShS is a fun build to play IMO.
Good luck!
*Edited: I specced Hemo+ShS
Edited, Feb 21st 2008 1:01pm by FinalMeat
Edited, Feb 21st 2008 1:07pm by FinalMeat
I am opening with ambush, then trying to do a Shs+BS combo after that. Opening with ShS+Ambush or CS sounds like a good time-saver while grinding. I'm going to keep playing around with it. I just wanted a break from constantly hitting SS.
try Gouge->ShS->BS
I used Shadowstep daggers for a while and found that I am lousy at using backstab while soloing. After a few talent adjustments, I worked out a viable routine with Ambush (which almost always critted due to talents) followed by S&D and some stuns and just relying on SS to generate the combo points. It was a vast improvement over what I had been doing (and trying to do) before but it was lousy for playing in a group since I would pull aggro with my pretty Ambush crits all the time.
I finally decided to give Shadowstep Hemo a try since I still loved the fun aspect of Shadowstep. Putting a sword in my main hand and using Hemo to generate points made a huge difference in soloing as I am killing mobs even faster. I also have a more steady rate of damage so I am less likely to pull aggro while in a group. I'm going to stick with this build until I hit 70 at least.
As to your Shadowstep problem, you need to realize that Shadowstep was originally a stealth-only ability. If you aren't stealthed, a mob will always turn towards you unless it is incapacitated in some way. Unstealthed Shadowstep can let you have a free backstab in PVP but it just won't work that way for regular mobs. The only way to use backstab in PVE while soloing is to use some ability to stun or incapacitate the mob first. Shadowstep is great for getting the position for an opener in PVE but is of little use after you break stealth.
I like Shadowstep in PVE for 'jumping' up to mobs on other levels that I would have to take a long way around to reach. I also like it when there are other people competing for mobs as it lets me grab a mob fast while not letting other people (especially high levels who can see through my stealth) know which mob I plan on taking. As much as I like it, I have to say that it isn't a necessary ability and I would probably be better off dps-wise putting those points elsewhere but the mobility and fun aspects compensate enough for me right now.
I finally decided to give Shadowstep Hemo a try since I still loved the fun aspect of Shadowstep. Putting a sword in my main hand and using Hemo to generate points made a huge difference in soloing as I am killing mobs even faster. I also have a more steady rate of damage so I am less likely to pull aggro while in a group. I'm going to stick with this build until I hit 70 at least.
As to your Shadowstep problem, you need to realize that Shadowstep was originally a stealth-only ability. If you aren't stealthed, a mob will always turn towards you unless it is incapacitated in some way. Unstealthed Shadowstep can let you have a free backstab in PVP but it just won't work that way for regular mobs. The only way to use backstab in PVE while soloing is to use some ability to stun or incapacitate the mob first. Shadowstep is great for getting the position for an opener in PVE but is of little use after you break stealth.
I like Shadowstep in PVE for 'jumping' up to mobs on other levels that I would have to take a long way around to reach. I also like it when there are other people competing for mobs as it lets me grab a mob fast while not letting other people (especially high levels who can see through my stealth) know which mob I plan on taking. As much as I like it, I have to say that it isn't a necessary ability and I would probably be better off dps-wise putting those points elsewhere but the mobility and fun aspects compensate enough for me right now.
I see where the issue is now.
Thanks for clarifying.
You could try Ambush->SS->Vanish->ShS->BS That will at least get you out of combat and back stealthed so they won't turn on you.
Only other I can think is to burn a KS or Gouge on the mob then ShS->BS.
When grouping I tend to save my ShS to grab the inevitable healer/caster aggro. Quickest way to get them off the healer.
Thanks for clarifying.
You could try Ambush->SS->Vanish->ShS->BS That will at least get you out of combat and back stealthed so they won't turn on you.
Only other I can think is to burn a KS or Gouge on the mob then ShS->BS.
Quote:
Shadowstep is great for getting the position for an opener in PVE but is of little use after you break stealth.
When grouping I tend to save my ShS to grab the inevitable healer/caster aggro. Quickest way to get them off the healer.
A. You shouldn't be taking agro off the healers, thats the tanks job, if you have a bad tank get a better one.
B. You shouldn't be ShS in PvE, it gimps your DPS to high heaven, at least a 15% difference.
EDIT: nad /=/ bad
Edited, Feb 21st 2008 3:49pm by GodOfMoo
B. You shouldn't be ShS in PvE, it gimps your DPS to high heaven, at least a 15% difference.
EDIT: nad /=/ bad
Edited, Feb 21st 2008 3:49pm by GodOfMoo
I would rather have the ability to grab the aggro of the healer given that the tank doesn't notice or can't get there quick enough and bring the mob back to them than have my healer die.
ShS gives the mobility to do it quick to get back into the fight.
I know the reaction is going to be "you're not 70 so you can't talk"
But at this point, lvl 57, I tend to run instances with PUG's and I find it easier to ensure that the healer doesn't die so that my tank can stay alive. If the CC isn't picking up the runner then I will do it and bring them back to the tank so they can grab aggro on them again.
Just the way that I play, and I have no problems getting groups or asked back.
But, this line of discussion isn't really an answer to the OP's question. That was done a few posts ago by morghast.
*Edited for clarity. Would rate up morghast if I could. Good answer.
Edited, Feb 21st 2008 4:37pm by FinalMeat
ShS gives the mobility to do it quick to get back into the fight.
I know the reaction is going to be "you're not 70 so you can't talk"
But at this point, lvl 57, I tend to run instances with PUG's and I find it easier to ensure that the healer doesn't die so that my tank can stay alive. If the CC isn't picking up the runner then I will do it and bring them back to the tank so they can grab aggro on them again.
Just the way that I play, and I have no problems getting groups or asked back.
But, this line of discussion isn't really an answer to the OP's question. That was done a few posts ago by morghast.
*Edited for clarity. Would rate up morghast if I could. Good answer.
Edited, Feb 21st 2008 4:37pm by FinalMeat
Why is there a thread regarding ShS everyday?
For the last time, don't even try to argue because you will fail, ShS daggers suck. Combat Daggers suck too (not as bad). Saying ShS > Combat Daggers doesn't mean much.
Stop bringing up personal experiences without evidence, personal experiences are completely irrelevant unless you are raiding with it currently for a long time. If you can't figure out why its irrelevant, its called basic principles of experimenting.
For the last time, don't even try to argue because you will fail, ShS daggers suck. Combat Daggers suck too (not as bad). Saying ShS > Combat Daggers doesn't mean much.
Stop bringing up personal experiences without evidence, personal experiences are completely irrelevant unless you are raiding with it currently for a long time. If you can't figure out why its irrelevant, its called basic principles of experimenting.
***Edit: Why bother****
Edited, Feb 21st 2008 6:55pm by FinalMeat
Edited, Feb 21st 2008 6:55pm by FinalMeat
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