Why are they called Welfare Epics?Follow

I made a new post rather than a wall of text.

I think the real problems are as follows:

1. People are placing two much importance on epic gear. Epic gear doesn't equal good/skilled player. As others above have already stated S1/S2 gear is terribad for raiding. The weapons are one thing, but there's not enough AP and there's no need for resilience in raids. You'll be mediocre at best even if you have some skill Kara and shouldn't be doing Gruul's and beyond if you're still wearing this gear. If you being passed over on invites to raids because a guy in BG epics is going instead what does that say about you and/or your guild? Either they should know better and they suck or they know you suck and his gimp DPS is still better than yours. If he's raiding WITH you in the raid then your guild is just silly and I'm sorry to say that without knowing much else.

2. Botters and AFK'ers are the real problem and the reason why so many people feel cheated. If these are the people you have a problem with, you should. But don't put those of us who enjoy BG's and actually play in the same category as them. We can't help this, Blizz should put stiffer penalties on AFK'ers (3-7 BG ban) and should be more diligent about botters. All that happens is that a botter's lewts get deleted IF he gets caught ENOUGH TIMES. This should come with a 1 week BG ban so he has to run around naked or in AH greens for a week. Right now reward outweighs risk so people do it. If that penalty sounds too stiff, so much the better then people won't do it.

3. I think a lot of this can be blamed on too much content too fast. This all being done just to prepare for next expansion anyway and I don't think there was much wrong with the first expansion to begin with, so why do we need a new one already? Besides it just got here. Even in Heroics BT gear equivalents are going to be passed out as badge rewards so now you can raid Kara and get BT gear. I think that more than the PVP rewards should be frustrating Kara is easy. You're guaranteed to get gear at that rate even if you only do Kara. I think no one's been allowed to have a sense of accomplishment in beating anything as very few have, and you had to have no life to do it. Soon everyone can and shortly thereafter new raids will be had and this content just like Old World will have no one dawn it's doors again.

It basically boils down to this: If you have qualms with 1. Get over your own Epic PVE-peen. Others should be able to get epic gear for what they excel in too and this stuff is barely Raid worthy if it is raid worthy at all. If it's 2. or 3. then don't hate the player, hate the game as that's where I see all of those problems coming from. Yeah there are @#%^s who shouldn't be abusing the system, but there shouldn't be a way to circumvent the system in the first place.

Edited, Mar 21st 2008 12:51pm by FelRogue

My major problem with welfare epics:

The item level. While a lot of the budget is spent on Stam and Resil, resil actually has a fairly low cost/level. As straight up pieces of gear, though, the seasons correspond directly to the tiers of loot, with S1 being T4, S2 being T5 and S3 being T6. In this way, people are getting T6 equivalent gear without putting forth nearly the same amount of effort or time as it takes to get actual T6. The shoulders are specifically the hardest piece to get because they are the worst piece of the set and the most noticeable. Conversely, in PvE the hardest pieces to get are the BEST pieces from the set, i.e the head and body slots.

Also, arena and PvP epics translate, even with the wasted budget, directly into PvE much better than PvE epics translate into PvP. Stam is never a wasted stat in PvE content as many encounters have a decent amount of splash damage that everyone is going to want to survive. However, with 0 resil on the T6, it doesn't matter if you've got best in slot for every piece in the game, you're still too squishy to go very far in arena play.

You can AFK/dance/laugh your way through BGs and Arena and still get rewards. There isn't enough to seperate the great PvPers from the crappy ones. That is why so many people have a problem with welfare epics. Anyone can get them, and so they lose meaning.

You're a scrub too, so why have high standards for other people?

Cause i'm leet. I don't have high standards for other people, i just think bad of them, i also think that your comments hurt me emotionally. I also put myself in the substandard class of nubs that started late in WoW and now can't get past 1700 rating or get past kara. I think i should consult my shrink on my emotional condition now.

Why is this still being discussed anyway?

Blah blah blah.

The team was formed tonight, and we got to 1621 in 24 games, 8 of which were played when my priest was specced for PvE. He DC'd in one of our losses, and all of our losses involved hunter/druid or warrior/druid, hardly an embarrassing loss by any stretch of the imagination.

Umbrage (my 2s priest) has 320 resilience. Hardly poor, but hardly enough to faceroll through most teams, since dpriest/rogue requires some delicate LOS and precision to play well.

I've gotten to 1800 as feral/rogue, and last season I was rated 1900 (I was 2 teams off from getting duelist, you can see Umbrage's title on his armory page).

Umbrage has 4 pieces of glad gear, but three of them are s2, and only one of them are s3. He hasn't PvPed much at all this season (as can be seen, he doesn't change 2s teams--he's primarily PvE--so he's a bit rusty and had never played disc before), and he's not nearly as well-geared as I am, a real lack in our team as he's focused much, much more often than I am. Pain Suppression/Focused Will help, but only so much.

BTW, I had 2 pieces of s2 gear coming into this season, and at the end of last season. So I got to 1900 last season with 2 pieces of s2 gear only.

You can shut up now.

Why would he? He has an excellent point, which you didn't adress, aside from the visceral trash talk reaction.

Players play the classes, not the gear. It helps but doesn't = autowin. I really don't understand why a thread this old is still top of first page.

its not that raiders dont respect the gear... most hardcore raiders has the same issues with the PVE version of the honor grind

the heroic badge grind

and btw, my server pugs up to grull fyi, so wheres your curly mustache now?

but if you wanna make me respect honor grinding

make it you gain points for a win, but lose for a loss... just like arena, just for bgs instead

I still haven't seen an armory, nor have you told me what BG you play in.

See, I play in Vengeance, so unless you play in Nightfall or Bloodlust, what you're saying isn't impressive.

BTW, it's apparent you don't understand what a counter-comp is. Druid/warrior is not a counter-comp to mage/hunter, especially if the hunter is BM.

And like I said, that was two or three hours worth of games yesterday. 24 games.

We'll be playing more. As you can see, my priest hasn't respecced yet.