Why are they called Welfare Epics?Follow

Look, the point of this entire thing or trend rather is that Blizzard is breaking open the bottlenecks for new/returning players and allowing more guilds to advance past Kara for the 25 man stuff.

*more devoted

good weapons for the casual i wouldnt care about

but lets look at something

Feltooth Eviscerator is a rare epic drop from the end boss of heroic ramparts

it is also a great dagger offhand to start with

but heres the thing, its only 84ish dps

why even run for it when 9k honor for a superior alternative is there

the fact that some of those quick easy gets are better then any kara drop is just ridiculous, it makes me woner who would rep grind cen exped. or scryers rep for the epic dps rings

when vet/vind is better and easier?

i can care less if they wanna hook up the casuals, but they overdid it imo... put a cap on how many of the epic pieces you can have at once, keep the old pvp blue set in rotation and lower everything to mid-kara item levelwise

being on the casual side of the fence, you wont understand how it can **** off the more serious players

the people who give a damn about class changes, or know exactly why druids are OP for healing

people that alctually comment on raid encounters in the PTR, and that feel they are accomplishing something they can enjoy by raiding seriously

you casuals love the easy loot and all, but think about how pissed that blacksmith rogue will be when s4 comes around, and you can honor grind s2 weapons.. when he had to spend dkp and a lot of effort to make his tier-3 mace

First of all, my Rogue has 4 S1 weapons, 3 pieces of S1 and 2 pieces of S3. All I do on my Rogue is Pvp. It's kind of insulting when people generalize everyone who has honor gear as a horrible player. You need S1 gear to even really be competitive at all in Arena. It's the people who are in 4/5 S3 with S2 weapons who can't get past the 1500 rating that are the bad players.

The thing is though, no one runs the 70 5 mans on my server anymore. Why would they? They can go grind honor in BG's for better gear. And it sucks. The BG is the hole where the bottom of WoW society resides. There are no consequences, guaranteed rewards, and a randomness of the people you play with. People do whatever they want.

So now new 70's have some choices.
1. They can try and find people to run 5 mans with, which is unlikely.
2. They can go grind out BG's for months to get pretty decent gear.

And here is where they become corrupted. Most people don't really keep their "stupid shields" up, and are very susceptible to a lot of the retards. Skill stagnates.

but what can they do? They can't just jump into heroics. There it matters that you're geared and specced right, that you know how to play your class, and have some knowledge of how to conduct yourself with other people.

It's an endless cycle. No one runs the 5 mans because the gear from PvP is better. People are forced to PvP because no one is running the 5 mans.

The changes to the reputation level needed for Heroic keys only exacerbated the problem. People can now get the rep level required by only running the instance once or twice and doing a few quests.

We'll just have to see what happens in WotLK. Blizzard will have a chance to "reset" the problem. I would like to see a bigger difference in how important some stats are in different areas of the game, making PvP gear more worthless for PvE and vice versa. But we'll just have to see how things work out in the end.

Giving out the PvP items for battleground honor does sort of irritate me, and it is because of the ease of it. I hardly ever run battlegrounds, but I did an AV the other day because it was the daily and I do enjoy it on occasion. And I got over 1000 honor from it. Now, I know you need badges for this gear as well, but 1000 honor for one battle? What if it had been AV's weekend?

It irritates me because my guild is made up of a bunch of close friends, and we like to run heroics. We're all geared in higher-end Kara gear, some ZA, and they can still be a challenge. Heroics are no walk in the park. But you will get one epic from a heroic, which is almost always significantly below Kara in quality, and even further below S1 gear. Personally, I think heroics are much harder than battlegrounds, especially AV. Maybe I sort of like AV because it doesn't take any real skill at PvP, and I don't have any. But to think that I can mindlessly do AV and get one of the S1 2H weapons for my warrior...that's absurd! I've never seen an epic 2H weapon drop in a heroic...the only one I can think of offhand is the sword in BM, and although BM is short, I guarantee it takes a lot more skill to beat BM on heroic - or even regular - than it does to fight in AV. Hell, when I go into AV with my hunter, all I do is stand behind everyone and use multi-shot and arcane shot, and come out near the top in kills. Which doesn't guarantee a win, of course, but it still shows how much skill AV really takes.

The point is, I think they need to make more of an effort to keep the gear from PvP and PvE separate. Maybe that isn't fair to the people that really like both, but if you choose to like both, you should know the time commitment you're getting yourself into. I did see that 2.4 will have some PvP blues available from various faction vendors, which I think is a good start toward making arena more accessible for someone like me (if I ever wanted to, but I'd still get eaten alive), but not a good start toward keeping PvP and PvE separate.

What it boils down to, I think, is that making this gear so readily available makes people on both sides unhappy. People like mongoosexcore, for example, are upset that he (or she?) had to work so hard to get S1 gear way back when, and now they're giving it away, and pretty soon S2 gear will be given away. It would make me upset, too. They're being handed things that should take some real work to get. Things that should take real skill to get. I'm not saying people in battlegrounds don't have skill - some do - but getting this gear via battlegrounds does not require skill.

People like me are upset because I see this S1 gear, which would be excellent for my warrior, being so easy to get, but I don't want to get it, almost out of principle. I'm PvE, and I want my gear to reflect that. But my guild isn't quite good enough to get really deep into SSC or the Eye yet, but people can get gear on par with SSC and Eye gear by doing battlegrounds, and then getting into raiding guilds using that gear. And I'm trying to get the gear by going the learning route. It is irritating.

You're right. Being a hunter and doing the shooting bit doesn't take skill.
I won't even go there.
As a rogue in a BG it does take skill if you're actually playing your class and killing people. My twink is a lvl 19 Hunter. I just pet people and shoot. lol easiest thing I've ever done.
Skill to sneak up behind you and chain stun you so you're beating on your keyboard and frothing at the mouth because you can't kite me and get away.
AV is a bad example of PvP.

Like the poster above me, I too work hard for my "welfare epics". I have soloed my way up to 69 and havent run any dugeons yet. I am aware that there will be a large learning curve for me when I decide to start to raid.

To get my "welfare epics" Ive looked at Shadow panthers 60-69 armor list and picked up the best items for PVP you can get on the AH. Ive done some enchanting on my gear and have read alot on tactics.

So how can you tell me that I dont earn those epics? Ofcourse there are people who epic up by AFK'ing and ofcourse there will be people who suck with epic gear. But judge them on their skills and not on what type of epics they are wearing.

I started late with WOW, if I was on it from the start I would have gone the elite way by raiding for gear and doing competitive arena. But now Blizzard have given me a shortcut to better gear, do you expect me to spent the same time or more to maybe get items that are not as good as the ones that are guarenteed to me now?

Edited, Feb 28th 2008 4:40pm by GimliNL

Here's the point. I had today off, and am starting to build a PvP set because an old friend of mine is transferring back to my server, so I'm going into PvP mode. I'm casual now, so I don't raid anymore. However, in this ONE day...I got 7.5k honor in a span of about 7 hours. That's 1.5k short of a 91 DPS weapon. When I first dinged 70, WAY back when after BC first released, and started raiding kara, there was no way in hell, after a mere 10 hours, I would have had access to a 91 DPS MH weapon. No way...in hell.

There is nothing wrong with utilizing the new system. I'm utilizing it, as a skilled player, to be able to PvP with a friend on a reroll. They're called welfare, however, because they're EASY to get. You're fooling yourself if you think the time and effort required for these items is close to comparable to the time it takes raiders, or even people just running 5 mans in their free time. You're an IDIOT if you think the time input needed for the items is over the top, and clearly never played at a point in time where you actually had to work for upgrades.

If it takes you 3 weeks to get a single piece of honor PvP gear, you would have NEVER gotten an epic out of a raid. Honestly. That's the difference. That's why a lot of people are pissed.

Edited, Mar 1st 2008 5:56am by FletusSanguine

PVP deserved EPICS and this is why...
PVP 1- we do daily EPICS battles against horde in BG (40 peoples)with all different skills/gear /weapons .
PVE 1- Do instance with premade group with specific requirements for skills/gear /weapons (5,10,25 peoples)against computerize monsters.

PVP 2- We battle different skills , group composition and strategy each battle.
PVE 2- Just follow the guides available for instance...(no surprise)

PVP 3- Coordination is done on the spot....deal with what you got.
PVE 3- Need to pick and choose your teammates, follow the pre-determine strategy by the guides and not to mention many "break time" available.

PVP 4- Fast pace action, temper run high, clock is ticking.......
PVE 4- Predictable, slow pace and no clock ticking.....

PVE is the more relaxing way of playing WOW, compare to PVP streeth fighters high octane way of life.

Sooooo, i wish we (PVP players)should be MORE rewarded with EPICS than the PVE (country club)because we are the true warriors who fight the REAL enemies (horde)so you will sleep better at night in Stormwind under our protective umbrella......so stop ******** about our Epics and just say THANK YOU and go back to your own world of safety.

Blizz spend Months and Months developing new patches and raids, On my server, Illidan has been downed once, 3 days ago, and they are about to release 2.4 all this great new content that 1% of player base might be able to get access to, every new raid that comes out, increases the gap between hitting lvl 70 and being on the edge with gear and progression. S1 is less than ideal raiding gear, but it is enough to get you started.

With all this QQing about having to pay your dues time wise before you should be able to raid, If you really followed this principle, anyone that is new to wow in the last 12 months should not be able to get past lvl 60 without spending months atunning and running onyxia and aq40 before youd be able to go throught the portal into welfare outland quest gear. your complaining about someone having easy access to a poor excuse for kara gear.

Would someone decked with twin warglaives and full slayers set give 2 ***** about somoene fully decked in kara gear? no, of course they wouldnt, why should they care about people in full s1 or s2? they shouldnt, its not like these people are gonna get past the first boss of BT when attunement goes out the window in 2.4?

I am a bit more than a casual player, i put in plenty of hours every day, but i have only been playing since september, but i know, I will never hold the set of warglaives which is currently the biggest drool set for rogues, by the time i am geared and raid experienced enough to farm illidan, wotlk will be out and there will be more welfare quest gear available to move past lvl 70 and all these lvl 70 epics will be nothing but vendor trash or DE mats (or in the case of pvp gear, it will just be bin material cause you cant sell or de them)

i didn't read it all but welfare epics come from pvp.. their for use in pvp only some of the new s3 gear is good enough for pve and can be used.. like take our s3 helm its really quite good for pve but s1/s2 gear really isn't and should never step into a pve raid.. but the weapons are a different sort of evil.. if your a rogue and plan to be a serious raider you most likely should be specing combat swords and taking full advantage of s1/s2 swords, your biggest upgrade as a rogue will almost always come from a MH upgrade and no MH sword compares to s1/s2 swords until tidewalker and talon of azshara.

pve get pve gear and stack HIT take advantage of welfare swords
pvp collect the whole welfare set today!!

but like the above posted said.. it really is just a name.. who gives a ****?
i for one will collect the set seeing how im planning to reroll horde so s2 gear will be the best i can get until i can get myself into a pve guild/farm badges for pve items.

loved the 'hand up, not a hand out' theory, that was rich.