Ive hit some of the minimum magic numbers that have been flying around for a respec to destro. i.e. spell hit capped, 20% crit and 1000+ dmg. Ive raided with both aff and demo and would now like to give destro a go, only prob is ive never played destro except maybe a 40/0/21 hybrid aff buid. What im finally getting around to is, what would you experienced destro locks recommend as a starting spell rotation on trash/bosses and what dots to avoid to max dps.
Thanks in advance for replies
p.s. this is my proposed spec - any ideas here woud be appreciated also.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IZdxczIbzZxx0tr0tVuV
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the spec is pretty much standard.
For bosses cast Curse of Shadow/Elements or Curse of Doom if you got
other locks who do that.
Cast Corruption, Immolate and than Sbolts spam.
Keep a tight DoT-cycle. Rinse&Repeat.
On long trash use Curse of Agony, Immolare Sbolt spam.
Even start with a Corruption, depending on how long
it takes your raid to take down harder trash.
For bosses cast Curse of Shadow/Elements or Curse of Doom if you got
other locks who do that.
Cast Corruption, Immolate and than Sbolts spam.
Keep a tight DoT-cycle. Rinse&Repeat.
On long trash use Curse of Agony, Immolare Sbolt spam.
Even start with a Corruption, depending on how long
it takes your raid to take down harder trash.
k, well obviously there's your designated curse (generally CoS > CoRec > CoE). if you're not on any of these duties then CoD is the best curse choice for bosses.
for trash it all depends on how long they live. any trash mob that lives less than 24seconds, no point in dotting. just spam SB (CoS/CoRec/CoE still worthwhile though, immolate/corruption are also worthwhile if the mob will live longer than their duration. generally only 1 dot is worthwhile though so depends on raid and mob which you use).
for larger trash packs / longer living mobs, your designated curse (or CoA otherwise. CoD on off tanked targets if you know they'll live for over 1min), corruption (or if you have a fire mage, immolate is better dpsc) then SB spam.
for bosses. your curse (or CoD otherwise) then corruption or immolate + SB spam (generally not worth doing both corruption and immolate unless it's an encounter where you can't nuke constantly. also as said earlier. immolate is better dpsc if you have a fire mage in the raid. otherwise use corruption due to ISB). conflagorate isn't worthwhile as it'll decrease your dps.
finally. try your best to not lifetap when you could SB/renew dots instead. seeing as regardless of the situation you're not refreshing your curse very often, we can take that out of the 'spell rotation' theorycrafting.
so with the curse ignored, corruption (or immolate) and SB nuke is how you'll be DPSing and a good 'rotation' for this would be
corruption > SBx6 > lifetap > corruption. this way you only have (in theory) 0.5sec downtime in corruption and a pretty steady mana regeneration
the same is done for immolate
immolate > SBx5 > lifetap > immolate. leading to again a 0.5 sec downtime in your dot and a slightly better mana regeneration due to more lifetapping.
this though is only true with 0 latency / perfect /stopcasting macros / perfect use of the inbuilt '/stopcasting' system. so yeah. it's all theory and in reality. lifetap when needed (preferably when you can't SB due to boss movement or abilities), never wait for mana to get to low before lifetapping and do your best to keep your dots up '100%' of the time.
for trash it all depends on how long they live. any trash mob that lives less than 24seconds, no point in dotting. just spam SB (CoS/CoRec/CoE still worthwhile though, immolate/corruption are also worthwhile if the mob will live longer than their duration. generally only 1 dot is worthwhile though so depends on raid and mob which you use).
for larger trash packs / longer living mobs, your designated curse (or CoA otherwise. CoD on off tanked targets if you know they'll live for over 1min), corruption (or if you have a fire mage, immolate is better dpsc) then SB spam.
for bosses. your curse (or CoD otherwise) then corruption or immolate + SB spam (generally not worth doing both corruption and immolate unless it's an encounter where you can't nuke constantly. also as said earlier. immolate is better dpsc if you have a fire mage in the raid. otherwise use corruption due to ISB). conflagorate isn't worthwhile as it'll decrease your dps.
finally. try your best to not lifetap when you could SB/renew dots instead. seeing as regardless of the situation you're not refreshing your curse very often, we can take that out of the 'spell rotation' theorycrafting.
so with the curse ignored, corruption (or immolate) and SB nuke is how you'll be DPSing and a good 'rotation' for this would be
corruption > SBx6 > lifetap > corruption. this way you only have (in theory) 0.5sec downtime in corruption and a pretty steady mana regeneration
the same is done for immolate
immolate > SBx5 > lifetap > immolate. leading to again a 0.5 sec downtime in your dot and a slightly better mana regeneration due to more lifetapping.
this though is only true with 0 latency / perfect /stopcasting macros / perfect use of the inbuilt '/stopcasting' system. so yeah. it's all theory and in reality. lifetap when needed (preferably when you can't SB due to boss movement or abilities), never wait for mana to get to low before lifetapping and do your best to keep your dots up '100%' of the time.
15 posts
Thanks for the swift replies
36 posts
I'm curious about life tapping in raids. I've never been there myself, but how do you keep your mana from running dry? Do you life tap until the healer has to spend time on you?
How many times can you run through the spell rotations listed by Jenova above before you go OOM?
When I'm alone I never run out but then I control the pace. How does this work in raids?
How many times can you run through the spell rotations listed by Jenova above before you go OOM?
When I'm alone I never run out but then I control the pace. How does this work in raids?
Quote:
I'm curious about life tapping in raids. I've never been there myself, but how do you keep your mana from running dry? Do you life tap until the healer has to spend time on you?
It's generally best to Life Tap only when you have to, positively, or go OOM if not, OR when you're moving and no instant DoTs need refreshing. Generally, someone will toss a HoT on you when you get pretty low (this figure depends on encounter: AoE-crazy fights will mean you get topped earlier). If not, Drain Life for a bit in your Shadow Bolting time.
That's a very big if.
Wouldn't a shadow priest or shammy with healing stream totem in your team negate the damage caused by lifetappimg?
healing stream totem will not suffice, but a shadowpriest is awesome!
Especially a good dps´ing one.
Especially a good dps´ing one.
Resto shaman healing totems won't save your life, but they will give you a free life tap or two pretty fast. 127 per tick is about normal I've seen, and that's maybe 20 seconds for a free life tap if you don't have anyone topping you off constantly.
Quote:
Do you life tap until the healer has to spend time on you?
Nonononono. You tap once at a time, or maybe two-three times IF a healer lets you know it's okay, there not going to be any incoming damage, and there's significant downtime (waiting for something to happen during the encounter). More than likely you'll get a HoT, FoL, or Chain Heal, depending on positioning and whatnot. If you're lucky, you'll get a shadow priest, but don't count on that supporting your tapping.
Also, there a handful of times Conflagrate is useful. If you need to get Immolate to stop ticking before an aggro wipe, you can pop that to keep yourself alive (Leo WW's, for example), and when a trash mob or add is about to die and you want a little burst of damage. It's used very, very rarely though.
Hope that you have a really good pre-emptive healer with HoTs, like a druid or even a priest. I have a druid that even though im at 100% hp, when I hit ~30% mana, he stacks me with hots. Its nice to know you have heals, before you actually need them :)
2/3 (or 3/3 if you're willing to loose 1 point in backlash) plus HSs/pots(super rejuv/mad alchemist pots are the best for us) and maybe the odd bandage are MORE than enough healing to cover your lifetapping and in the rotations i said. that 1 lifetap every 15-18 seconds or so is also enough to provide sustainable dps for about 4-5minutes without the use of any pots and without any heals on you either.
finally, the Q about healers. to put it simply. if you tap, they'll heal you. makes life very easy for us ^^ infact they heal us to much imo. whenever we're about to wipe (MT died or something) the healers will STILL carry on healing me, even though i'm LTing to try and kill myself with hellfire... I've yelled at them ALOT over vent because of this and even demanded (and got) gold for the increased repair costs they caused me.
/moaning ftw :D
Edited, Feb 20th 2008 9:18pm by Jenovaomega
finally, the Q about healers. to put it simply. if you tap, they'll heal you. makes life very easy for us ^^ infact they heal us to much imo. whenever we're about to wipe (MT died or something) the healers will STILL carry on healing me, even though i'm LTing to try and kill myself with hellfire... I've yelled at them ALOT over vent because of this and even demanded (and got) gold for the increased repair costs they caused me.
/moaning ftw :D
Edited, Feb 20th 2008 9:18pm by Jenovaomega
1. Don't cast corruption. Ever.
2. Don't cast CoA unless: You're not on a specific curse assignment, you are currently on the move, you don't need to life tap, CoD was resisted and is on cooldown. It's not worth the GCD otherwise.
3. At your level of gear, the general idea is Immolate, Shadow Bolt x6, Immolate and repeat. Once you hit around 1400 +damage/30% crit raid buffed drop Immolate from your cycle as it's a marginal dps increase and does not increase raid ISB uptime.
Spec looks fine, when/if you hit BT you will want to change to nether protection.
Rotation on trash: Curse Assignment, if you don't have one don't curse at all. Immo, sb lots, conflag if it's about to die. On the really tough trash (read, > 30 seconds to kill the mob) then immolate twice. if it's a 20-25 second fight then don't refresh immolate.
Rotation on bosses: Curse Assignment, Immo, SBx6, tap and repeat.
2. Don't cast CoA unless: You're not on a specific curse assignment, you are currently on the move, you don't need to life tap, CoD was resisted and is on cooldown. It's not worth the GCD otherwise.
3. At your level of gear, the general idea is Immolate, Shadow Bolt x6, Immolate and repeat. Once you hit around 1400 +damage/30% crit raid buffed drop Immolate from your cycle as it's a marginal dps increase and does not increase raid ISB uptime.
Spec looks fine, when/if you hit BT you will want to change to nether protection.
Rotation on trash: Curse Assignment, if you don't have one don't curse at all. Immo, sb lots, conflag if it's about to die. On the really tough trash (read, > 30 seconds to kill the mob) then immolate twice. if it's a 20-25 second fight then don't refresh immolate.
Rotation on bosses: Curse Assignment, Immo, SBx6, tap and repeat.
ignore anyone that says corruption (or immolate depending on raid setup) are useless as dest. they are still a dps increase (but only 1 is worth while. two is to much of a mana drain) an the ISB uptime barely changes, just that you end up using it more efficiently.
I believe what I heard is if your +shadow is really high and your crit low or you have alot of haste use corruption only. If your crit is high but you have no haste use Immolate only. If your at the bare minimum stats for 21/40 use them both.
the +shadow and crit part is still true. but with the upcoming changes to spell haste. immolate is still viable with high haste due to not going below the GCD anymore.
Does anyone know the actual stats on how haste will affect the GCD yet? Like how much haste is needed to move it down to 1 second.
around 785 i heard^^
Edited, Feb 21st 2008 5:11pm by Oakenwrath
Edited, Feb 21st 2008 5:11pm by Oakenwrath
17.8 haste per 1%. to cap out GCD at 1sec, it's 594 haste rounded up. (33% haste), though supposedly the haste formula is different. supposedly it's not that 10% haste is 1.5(gcd)x0.9. but 1.5/1.1. in which case you would need 50% haste to cap out the gcd, requiring 890 haste rating...
It takes 789 haste to get down to 1-second GCD. You don't need anywhere near that much to make it noticeable if you're using 1.5-sec spells, though.
Corruption tends to drop off faster than Immolate - in fact, with current gear, Corruption is a net DPS loss around high-end T5 content. With Sunwell, I'm unsure, though since is scales inferior to Immolate I'm guessing it will still be lower priority or a net loss.
For reference, Corruption gets .7514dmg/casting second per +dmg (succysac, spriest, untalented CoS, 50% IBS uptime), while Immolate gets .7487dmg/casting second per +dmg (spriest, untalented CoS, ImpScorch), and that's assuming no talents to improve it (many destro locks have at least 4/5 ImpImmolate to get deeper into the tree, which is .7833dmg/csec/+dmg), and it scales with crit.
EDIT: Jenova, it is 1/(hasted), but it's 15.78 haste per percent.
EDIT2: Well, it might be 15.77, I can't remember. And apparently Emberstorm is better scaling (.8236dmg/csec/+dmg), for some reason I was thinking ImpImmolate was. Guess it makes sense, since that's where more of the +dmg goes to and that's where more of the Immolate damage comes from anywho.
Edited, Feb 21st 2008 4:05pm by lsfreak
Corruption tends to drop off faster than Immolate - in fact, with current gear, Corruption is a net DPS loss around high-end T5 content. With Sunwell, I'm unsure, though since is scales inferior to Immolate I'm guessing it will still be lower priority or a net loss.
For reference, Corruption gets .7514dmg/casting second per +dmg (succysac, spriest, untalented CoS, 50% IBS uptime), while Immolate gets .7487dmg/casting second per +dmg (spriest, untalented CoS, ImpScorch), and that's assuming no talents to improve it (many destro locks have at least 4/5 ImpImmolate to get deeper into the tree, which is .7833dmg/csec/+dmg), and it scales with crit.
EDIT: Jenova, it is 1/(hasted), but it's 15.78 haste per percent.
EDIT2: Well, it might be 15.77, I can't remember. And apparently Emberstorm is better scaling (.8236dmg/csec/+dmg), for some reason I was thinking ImpImmolate was. Guess it makes sense, since that's where more of the +dmg goes to and that's where more of the Immolate damage comes from anywho.
Edited, Feb 21st 2008 4:05pm by lsfreak
lol, where on earth did i get the 17.8 from...?o.0 anyone know anything which uses that number? lol. so yeah, with that it's at 789.
also isfreak. i don't know how your guild does stuff. but in ours, every mage has swapped to arcane, so we don't have imp.scorch, so leaving corruption ahead of immolate, also corruption does scale better with haste due to being a longer cast.
in the end though, generally to get more haste, you need to loose crit (looking at current and upcoming gear) so with high haste, a lower crit rate. corruption will definately out perform immolate. also seeing how haste is a better dps increase than crit, corruption would be the better choice.
also isfreak. i don't know how your guild does stuff. but in ours, every mage has swapped to arcane, so we don't have imp.scorch, so leaving corruption ahead of immolate, also corruption does scale better with haste due to being a longer cast.
in the end though, generally to get more haste, you need to loose crit (looking at current and upcoming gear) so with high haste, a lower crit rate. corruption will definately out perform immolate. also seeing how haste is a better dps increase than crit, corruption would be the better choice.
Eww, arcane. Hugely dependent on shadow priests and still doesn't have the output of 2/47/11 with any kind of decent gear. It's the Mutilate of the mage tree.
Immolate and Corruption, at least next patch, scale exactly the same with haste. 1% haste is 1% lower cast time, whether the cast is 1.5sec long or 10. Corruption won't be able to keep up with Immolate's superior scaling, not by any means.
Immolate and Corruption, at least next patch, scale exactly the same with haste. 1% haste is 1% lower cast time, whether the cast is 1.5sec long or 10. Corruption won't be able to keep up with Immolate's superior scaling, not by any means.
lsfreak wrote:
Eww, arcane. Hugely dependent on shadow priests and still doesn't have the output of 2/47/11 with any kind of decent gear. It's the Mutilate of the mage tree.
I believe, unless I miss my guess at to Jen's guilds progression that most/all mages should be going arc/frost, as long as they have a chillbot. Its about that time where frost gains ground on fire, then completely stomps it.
Deep frost is even worse than deep arcane (it's ahead in theory, but it relies on your WE not only being alive but have mana to cast, which doesn't happen even with a shadow priest), and arcane/frost is even worse than that (well, unless you can maintain about 1200dmg and 55% buffed crit).
#25REDACTED,
Posted: Feb 22 2008 at 10:23 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) looking at your spec, im guessing you will sac the imp for fire dmg, and you will use curse of elements and immonlate, than incinerate's . In late t5 consider sac'ing the succubus and get some +shadow dmg, and them curse of shadow and shadowbolt spam. neverforget about you're trusty seed of corruption/corruption
arcane/ice owns fire hard in endgame-content.
It is very mana-inefficient, but damn it does dps.
Edited, Feb 22nd 2008 1:40pm by Oakenwrath
It is very mana-inefficient, but damn it does dps.
Edited, Feb 22nd 2008 1:40pm by Oakenwrath
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