So, I just had a world PvP encounter (hellfire fortifications) against a hunter and I'm wondering what I could have done better (I lost - 62 feral druid against 66 hunter (assumed BM spec) and raptor pet). I don't really pvp much and play on a pve server.
I opened with pounce and shred. Got concussed/stunned. Turned into bear and charged him (was immune to charge stun!). Got frozen and immediately aimed shot as the CC ended. Throughout all this I got all my buffs taken off with various arcane shots (only noticed this after the fight was over). Died as I was barkskinned and attempting to heal (got spell interrupted).
Looking through my combat log, once my stun pounce wore off he did The Beast Within, Frenzy Effect, Ferocious Inspiration, and Bestial wrath. Am I correct in assuming all of those are to make the pet stronger?
So.. it went about exactly how I had expected (stun, frozen, aimed shot, etc) but where's the part about me surviving XD
I've created a new druid on a pvp server, so I'm intersted in pvp tips regarding this.
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I'm interested to read any replies to this thread... I pvp in BGs a fair bit and am always up for a duel (im on a pve server too) and no matter what class i play (i have a few), hunters are the one class i constistently have problems with..
What is their weakness??!!
What is their weakness??!!
Hunters use to be fairly easy as a feral druid until the buffs they recieved last patch, but they are still killable. The problem is you need to have feral gear to kill them, rogue gear has 2 very significant weaknesses; low armor and no +int. Both are used alot when fighting a hunter.
The key to beating a BM hunter is learning how to fight them while they have BW up. You cannot heal and you cannot stun/cyclone/maim so this is one of there very few cases that the best defence is a hyper aggressive offense.
You need to spend as much time as possible within melee range and if you are going to be out of melee range for any length of time, you need to be in bear form. Against average hunters, all you need is feral charge and your speed to stay on top of them, shifting as needed to break snares. Good hunters will lay down a frost trap and try to kite you around the ice patch. Staying in or close to their dead zone will reduce how much damage they can do while BW is up since they have to keep moving and can't just stand there and turn you into a pin cushion.
Once BW expires, you wil have your first opportunity to heal. You MUST use barkskin to heal, otherwise the pet will kncok you back constantly. If you got a couple points on the hunter, hit them with a maim then shift out, barkskin, cyclone (at 70) and use HT and/or lifebloom to heal yourself. Rejuv and regrowth are not good choices since the hot will get dispeled by arcane shot, but lifebloom will simply prematurely bloom if it gets dispelled.
A BM hunter will have one tool to interupt your healing though if your not careful. Intimidation causes their pet to stun you for several seconds, but it has a one minute cooldown. Keep track to see if they have used it already before you try to heal, otherwise you will put yourself at risk of leaving yourself very vulnerable. This ability can be used even if the hunter is stunned/maimed/cycloned. If you have the mana to spare and you know the hunter already blown intimidation, you can also use tranquility to heal after BW. The nice thing about tranquility is it does the most healing in the shortest amount of time, and you start getting healed 1 second after cast rather then 3 seconds for HT.
Finally make as much use of your surroundings as possible. If you can run behind a wall or a corner to get out of LOS, abuse it constantly. If you can drop combat, even better since you can go stealth and wait out BW then come back when it's over.
The key to beating a BM hunter is learning how to fight them while they have BW up. You cannot heal and you cannot stun/cyclone/maim so this is one of there very few cases that the best defence is a hyper aggressive offense.
You need to spend as much time as possible within melee range and if you are going to be out of melee range for any length of time, you need to be in bear form. Against average hunters, all you need is feral charge and your speed to stay on top of them, shifting as needed to break snares. Good hunters will lay down a frost trap and try to kite you around the ice patch. Staying in or close to their dead zone will reduce how much damage they can do while BW is up since they have to keep moving and can't just stand there and turn you into a pin cushion.
Once BW expires, you wil have your first opportunity to heal. You MUST use barkskin to heal, otherwise the pet will kncok you back constantly. If you got a couple points on the hunter, hit them with a maim then shift out, barkskin, cyclone (at 70) and use HT and/or lifebloom to heal yourself. Rejuv and regrowth are not good choices since the hot will get dispeled by arcane shot, but lifebloom will simply prematurely bloom if it gets dispelled.
A BM hunter will have one tool to interupt your healing though if your not careful. Intimidation causes their pet to stun you for several seconds, but it has a one minute cooldown. Keep track to see if they have used it already before you try to heal, otherwise you will put yourself at risk of leaving yourself very vulnerable. This ability can be used even if the hunter is stunned/maimed/cycloned. If you have the mana to spare and you know the hunter already blown intimidation, you can also use tranquility to heal after BW. The nice thing about tranquility is it does the most healing in the shortest amount of time, and you start getting healed 1 second after cast rather then 3 seconds for HT.
Finally make as much use of your surroundings as possible. If you can run behind a wall or a corner to get out of LOS, abuse it constantly. If you can drop combat, even better since you can go stealth and wait out BW then come back when it's over.
First of all, there were four levels between you guys. That's like going up against a level 66 elite as a level 62. Pretty damn tough. You'll miss a lot and the Hunter has the level advantage, meaning he'll hit and crit for more, plus he's less likely to miss.
The key to winning any fight against a Hunter is to get off a Pounce. If he's Beast Mastery he'll probably pop Beast Within to get out, but it won't remove the bleed debuff. Apply Mangle, Shred, Rake and Rip, and you'll effectively bleed him dry while you soak up the damage in Bear form.
You need to be aware of Scare Beast, but it's a 1.5 second cast so you need uber reflexes to pull off a shift before he casts it, lag and all included. If I can get into Bear form and have the PvP trinket ready when he uses Scare Beast, I win.
Once in Bear form, apply Lacerates and keep Mangle up to maximize the bleed damage. I know you don't have Lacerate yet, but once you do. Once Beast Within ends (his pet shrinks back to normal size and is no longer red), pop Bash and go Cat form for the finishing damage. Usually a Mangle, Shred and Ferocious Bite is enough, seeing as he already took massive damage from your opening moves.
Now, if the Hunter gets the jump on you... oh boy. Basically skip the first portion of the strategy and go straight to Bear form. It'll be a tough fight, though.
I don't recall my stats at level 62, but with my DPS gear on at my current level (70), in Bear form, I crit for around 1,500 with Mangle and 1,100 with Maul on mail armor (Hunter). All while having 12,000 health, 25% dodge, 30% crit chance and 13,500 armor points. With Mangle, Pounce, Rip and 5pt Lacerate running, I'm clocking in over 900 bleed damage every few seconds as well.
A Hunter will have to hit hard and fast to kill me before he dies.
Edited, Feb 20th 2008 3:04am by Mazra
The key to winning any fight against a Hunter is to get off a Pounce. If he's Beast Mastery he'll probably pop Beast Within to get out, but it won't remove the bleed debuff. Apply Mangle, Shred, Rake and Rip, and you'll effectively bleed him dry while you soak up the damage in Bear form.
You need to be aware of Scare Beast, but it's a 1.5 second cast so you need uber reflexes to pull off a shift before he casts it, lag and all included. If I can get into Bear form and have the PvP trinket ready when he uses Scare Beast, I win.
Once in Bear form, apply Lacerates and keep Mangle up to maximize the bleed damage. I know you don't have Lacerate yet, but once you do. Once Beast Within ends (his pet shrinks back to normal size and is no longer red), pop Bash and go Cat form for the finishing damage. Usually a Mangle, Shred and Ferocious Bite is enough, seeing as he already took massive damage from your opening moves.
Now, if the Hunter gets the jump on you... oh boy. Basically skip the first portion of the strategy and go straight to Bear form. It'll be a tough fight, though.
I don't recall my stats at level 62, but with my DPS gear on at my current level (70), in Bear form, I crit for around 1,500 with Mangle and 1,100 with Maul on mail armor (Hunter). All while having 12,000 health, 25% dodge, 30% crit chance and 13,500 armor points. With Mangle, Pounce, Rip and 5pt Lacerate running, I'm clocking in over 900 bleed damage every few seconds as well.
A Hunter will have to hit hard and fast to kill me before he dies.
Edited, Feb 20th 2008 3:04am by Mazra
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
If you match or outlevel the hunter (in the wild he probably has a Tanker with him) kill the pet. It really neuters a BM hunter, and for some pets can be quite easy. Otherwise you've got a constant damage source on you.
I dont' know about you but I'd start with pounce,rake, maim and then if possible HYBERNATE if he's a bm hunter that would take his beast out of the fight for 10 seconds or at least use up one of his cooldowns to wake him and his beast up. Druids and warriors get the least love when it comes to cc. so good luck however it goes. (ps I'd suggest gettting to 70 and 4 piece pvp set before you try again.)
But while you're killing his pet, the pet will still attack you and he'll be free to do whatever.
For instance, if his pet has 4,000 health and he has 7,000 health, you'd have to do 11,000 damage to kill him, right? Provided he doesn't use Mend Pet at some point, which is highly unlikely. If you went for the Hunter alone you'd only have to do 7,000 damage.
It's true that a BM Hunter without his pet is about as tame as a Demonology Warlock without a minion, but while you're trying to send Kitty to the Twisting Nether, he's pumping out Mend Pet and Aimed Shots for critsane damage. And if he pops Beast Within the moment you go for Kitty, the "loss" he suffers once you kill the pet is minimal. He'll lose some DPS, but it's nothing compared to the DPS he'd lose if you focused on him and got within melee range.
For instance, if his pet has 4,000 health and he has 7,000 health, you'd have to do 11,000 damage to kill him, right? Provided he doesn't use Mend Pet at some point, which is highly unlikely. If you went for the Hunter alone you'd only have to do 7,000 damage.
It's true that a BM Hunter without his pet is about as tame as a Demonology Warlock without a minion, but while you're trying to send Kitty to the Twisting Nether, he's pumping out Mend Pet and Aimed Shots for critsane damage. And if he pops Beast Within the moment you go for Kitty, the "loss" he suffers once you kill the pet is minimal. He'll lose some DPS, but it's nothing compared to the DPS he'd lose if you focused on him and got within melee range.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
thats where clever use of LoS comes in maz.
not saying its an easy win, and out in the open you cant alwasy rely on LoS being available, but it has its applications. generally if a hunter goes big red on me i fake a kite with travel form, then shift out and huck a moonfire once i see him go cheetah, tossing on an abolish and a rejuv and smacking him with moonfire again before i shift back (rank 1 of course).
barkskin helps a lot too, to mitigate the pet damage.
then you just keep running till you outdistance the pet. after that you heal back to full and rest up if youre in the clear, then go hunt the f*cker down without his easy mode button. nothing stalks prey like a druid.
not saying its an easy win, and out in the open you cant alwasy rely on LoS being available, but it has its applications. generally if a hunter goes big red on me i fake a kite with travel form, then shift out and huck a moonfire once i see him go cheetah, tossing on an abolish and a rejuv and smacking him with moonfire again before i shift back (rank 1 of course).
barkskin helps a lot too, to mitigate the pet damage.
then you just keep running till you outdistance the pet. after that you heal back to full and rest up if youre in the clear, then go hunt the f*cker down without his easy mode button. nothing stalks prey like a druid.
Quor wrote:
thats where clever use of LoS comes in maz.
not saying its an easy win, and out in the open you cant alwasy rely on LoS being available, but it has its applications. generally if a hunter goes big red on me i fake a kite with travel form, then shift out and huck a moonfire once i see him go cheetah, tossing on an abolish and a rejuv and smacking him with moonfire again before i shift back (rank 1 of course).
barkskin helps a lot too, to mitigate the pet damage.
then you just keep running till you outdistance the pet. after that you heal back to full and rest up if youre in the clear, then go hunt the f*cker down without his easy mode button. nothing stalks prey like a druid.
not saying its an easy win, and out in the open you cant alwasy rely on LoS being available, but it has its applications. generally if a hunter goes big red on me i fake a kite with travel form, then shift out and huck a moonfire once i see him go cheetah, tossing on an abolish and a rejuv and smacking him with moonfire again before i shift back (rank 1 of course).
barkskin helps a lot too, to mitigate the pet damage.
then you just keep running till you outdistance the pet. after that you heal back to full and rest up if youre in the clear, then go hunt the f*cker down without his easy mode button. nothing stalks prey like a druid.
Mmh, being able to turn the situation around like that is definitely one of the reasons I love my Druid. Can't pull it off with any other class, except maybe Rogues. You need speed boosts and stealth. Being a brick of steel fur in Bear form just makes us even more powerful.
I'm losing a lot in PvP at the moment, but mostly because I play Battlegrounds and Alliance freeakin' sucks there. I'll find someone geared about the same as me and engage a fight. I appear to be in complete control of the situation and my epeen is huge. Then a Warrior and Resto Druid join the fight and kick my *** while a Mutilate Rogue just stepped out of nowhere and completely ignores my resilience rating while he continues to lay down the hurt on me.
However, I remember back in the days, before the "welfare epics," I took down a Warrior and Rogue while in Bear form. Simply outlasted their DPS and unlike me, none of them could heal. If I try the same thing today they'll flaunt their Gladiator gear and rip me a new one before I can count to one. 2.5k Mortal Strike crit in Bear form, kthx.
The Arenas killed my fun.
Edited, Feb 20th 2008 8:47pm by Mazra
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
whats your armor in bear maz? i duel my druid friend and all he does is switch on his earthwarden when in bear form and suddenly my MS crits can barely break 1k. granted im still using deep thunder, but an s3 weapon is only another 20-30 points of top end added in, which translates into maybe an 1100 crit instead.
thats one thing ive noticed a lot of druids forget to do; they dont swap in a +armor weapon when they switch to bear form. the earthwarden alone is a 3k armor gain, which is enough to negate 5 sunders + executioner proc.
granted, going 2v1 vs a rogue and war at this point in the game is pretty much suicide for any druid save maybe a boomkin who CC'ed just right but its still possible for a druid of any spec to pull off some pretty crazy wins.
thats one thing ive noticed a lot of druids forget to do; they dont swap in a +armor weapon when they switch to bear form. the earthwarden alone is a 3k armor gain, which is enough to negate 5 sunders + executioner proc.
granted, going 2v1 vs a rogue and war at this point in the game is pretty much suicide for any druid save maybe a boomkin who CC'ed just right but its still possible for a druid of any spec to pull off some pretty crazy wins.
I have 16k AR in bear form in my PvP gear & about 160 resilience and a well geared rogue can still generally take me out without a problem.
Nothing worse than getting jumped by 2 rogues though - I think that is almost instant death for any class.
Nothing worse than getting jumped by 2 rogues though - I think that is almost instant death for any class.
48 posts
I find this thread kinda funny, because as a BM Hunter I get Raped by Druids every time! The more I PVP the more I realize that there is nothing a I can do to a decently geared druid. So I'm asking all you druids out there what does a hunter need to do to win, not put up a good fight, not pester, but to WIN.
Moonkins give me trouble because of tree monsters, and moonfire spam.
Feral give me trouble because of the enormous amount of HP and armor you have, and insanly high crit rate. The amount of HP+Armor is more than my DPS can handle. It's sad when the class your fighting stops fighting you half way through the fight to go kill a warrior while your railing on him, kill the warrior then come and kill you. Feral charge makes it extremely difficult to kit you.
Restos give me trouble because they just kinda spam LOL while they heal through my BW, aimed shot,my trinkets and my mana. Eventually I get them its just a matter of how long it takes LOL!
By the way here is my Character sheet, to give you guys an idea of the gear I'm working with.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bloodhoof&n=Doogra
So I beesech you Druids out there teach me how to fight druids
Moonkins give me trouble because of tree monsters, and moonfire spam.
Feral give me trouble because of the enormous amount of HP and armor you have, and insanly high crit rate. The amount of HP+Armor is more than my DPS can handle. It's sad when the class your fighting stops fighting you half way through the fight to go kill a warrior while your railing on him, kill the warrior then come and kill you. Feral charge makes it extremely difficult to kit you.
Restos give me trouble because they just kinda spam LOL while they heal through my BW, aimed shot,my trinkets and my mana. Eventually I get them its just a matter of how long it takes LOL!
By the way here is my Character sheet, to give you guys an idea of the gear I'm working with.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bloodhoof&n=Doogra
So I beesech you Druids out there teach me how to fight druids
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