why the hate?Follow

I went sub spec at 52 or so, now 60, and its been the best thing ive ever done.
soloing is by no means harder (i find it easier in fact), i am far more useful in instances, and i completely wreck people in BGs, so, is all this combat love based on anything other than people being unable to throw just a teensy bit of effort/strategy into their playing?
(oh, dont give me that DPS bull, 1) i did more dps right after respec than before, 2) i do more dps than pretty much any rogue ive grouped with since respec.)
(oh, and even if your dps meter tells you at that second your doing less, try looking at total damage done, all you have to do is click the little circley thing in the top left a few times...)
now, granted, im only 60 atm, and if there is an actual difference at 70 i'd be happy to hear it and keep it in mind for future respecs, and im sure before 50 sub spec is more difficult than combat, but really, it just seems like people want to justify their laziness.

Nah, the stats are very clear. Combat is just the best, overall, for end-game raiding. It's nice in PvP as well as being a great leveling build, so you could basically head into combat/swords and never have to respec from 10-70.

Subtlety's still the no. 1 for PvP though. Don't get all Tyrandor on us and act like you're entitled to be awesome at everything.

i don't disagree about the superiority of combat. in fact i respecced from mute so i could contribute more in raids but do want to point out that while hemo results in less personal dps it does contribute to overall dps for the raid. the presence of one (just one) hemo rogue can be a positive thing. so i'm not sure it's fair to include it in a personal dps comparison.

Hemo =/= sub though. Note there are various entries for different Hemo specs, and then ShS bottoming out the list. A decent Hemo rogue will be getting Hemo, of course, but then at least Blade Flurry and Relentless Strikes, if not getting Swordspec and Weapon Expertise as well.

i suppose im just a glutton for e-punishment, but here we go


now, thanks for the info, i'll keep that in mind, while also keeping in mind things like improved ability to sap and blind for instances, and hemo for overall damage, not just inflating my dps/e-peen, but i have a question: do you act like a self important jerk in real life too, or is it just the leetness of allakhazam that makes you feel so empowered?
oh, and still sub, still loving it, still #1 dps within reasonable lvl ranges (sometimes i group with 70s at 63), still a damn sight better at sapping than i would be without it.

Rogues that can't sap properly is a party-kick. How hard is it throw a distract and then sap?

ShS daggers suck for PvE. Your experience is about as accurate as a blind man describing how pretty the lights are on the Eiffel Tower.

wait, so let me get this straight, you're saying that he is wrong, for what reason?

Morally?

Gameplay wise?

The fact that he is using a different build that isn't the norm for what he intends to do, and being different from every rogue that go "SWORD SPEC RAWR?"

get off your high horse, it's a damned game, not a job where you have to be efficient as hell.

i still get annoyed when doing lower level instances, when somebody joins a party, and someone see's that a rogue isn't sword spec, or a priest isn't speced to heal, or a warrior is armed spec, and complains that the group will fail cause someone isn't the exact same as he's seen before.

all the TC said is that he switched and enjoyed it, ever take a moment to think that somebody doesn't want there gameplay to be the same the entire game?

if you had just plainly said:

It may seem like that now, but sooner or later, COMSwords will overpower it, cause of this, this, and this.

instead you dropped down a table that, i don't even understand for one. you dropped it down thinking every last person should know what it means.



that wasn't needed, you could have just stated that before level 70, it doesn't work that way.

YES: you are acting like a jerk.

NO: there is no reason for it

Wuidyen, it's great that you are trying something different from the norm of what a majority of people use. If you have fun with the sub spec no one is going to tell you that you are wrong.

Everyone is saying that you are wrong because:
1. You are implying that ever since you switched to sub you do more damage than pretty much any other rogue, even if they are higher level than you are.
2. You say people who are combat are lazy and don't really give it their all when they play.
3. You are coming in here with no hard data besides the "ever since I switched to sub I do more damage than all the other rogues." If you want to convince someone you need data.

We all know that sub is suppose to be more of a utility spec than a damage spec. Heck if you look at the changes blizz has done to the sub tree recently you can pretty much tell what they are trying to do. Hemo being one of the major indications.

Now if you said something along the lines of "Ever since I switched to sub I've been having a blast and doing good damage at the same time," then people wouldn't be flaming you and telling you that you are wrong.

Pokmin: Actually he is saying he is doing more damage with sub than combat. Basing it on what though? Dungeons? Dungeon Bosses(if so which ones)? Outside world? BG? Arena?

Also with the tone in his first post and second post you want others to be nice to him? Really? Seriously, when you tell people they are effortless, thoughtless, and lazy, don't expect people to reply with a smile. If you really think they should reply with a smile you are just plain naive.

The table GodOfMoo posted is really easy to understand if you have looked at any type of chart before. Tier 4, tier 5, and tier 6 refers to the equipment. Combat swords is denoted by a (--) is the most efficient thus not losing damage in %. Everything is labeled with spec and weapons with the loss in damage next to it. Which is pretty much it. If you are at high school level you should be able to figure that out with a bit of common sense.

Honestly, many of us would love a spec that has more excitement and interaction instead of combat swords. I agree that combat spec is fairly boring, but it does the most damage. I would love to see one day that the sub spec is viable in raids, where sub would do excellent (not optimal) damage yet providing utility to the point where the utility will offset the personal damage lost.

Wow....how hard is it to understand that its about DPS. Especially considering the OP was saying how Subtlety's DPS was so, "Oh em eff gee! Sub is so leet!" At least thats how it came off to me.

And if he has ever read these forums he should know that anyone posting that Subtlety is good in PvE is going to get flamed to high hell.

I also want to point out the hypocrisy of the OP:



Immediately followed by:



So he is saying don't say anything about DPS, yet he then proceeds to falsely say that Subtlety does more DPS than Combat.

And as for why he is wrong, if you aren't giving your all in a group you are ******* over the other 4-24 people in your group, and as such are wasting there time and efforts. I think anyone who does that deserves to be told how wrong they are. Subtlety gimps your DPS, gimping your DPS gimps your group.

If he wants to play his own way, then don't play with other people and don't waste their time.