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A mage with pvp problemsFollow

#1 Feb 17 2008 at 4:51 AM Rating: Decent
Yes, i know there has been several posts on pvp'ing with a mage. But i just wanted to say that, i suck badly at pvp. At the moment i have been farming honor for gear by doing AV Premades on (Al'Akir). I have experienced many troubles with fighting against rogues and locks, warriors with good gear are hard, but you can take them down with kiting/FN +FB Ice lance combo. Rouges are kind of impossible for me when they get the jump and keep stunning with mace/combat spec. I know this might sound nooby, but to be honest, i have never been able to take down someone 1v1 with the same gear as me, unless if someone helps me :P

I really need to learn how to pvp with mage, this might be because i don't have as much experience.

I am looking for tips/ideas that could help me against getting jumped by rouges and getting pwned by warriors, for locks i just nuke them and CS their shadow tree for some time, but i guess resilience will help me with locks.

Help would be appreciated.

Thanks

#2 Feb 17 2008 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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128 posts
Ive been doing my fair share of AV and the biggest advice i can give you is hang in there. You wont beat the "easy" to beat mage classes like rogues or warriors when they have 350 resil and you have 20. That 350 means they have fought tons of mages and are much more experienced. The gear will come, but you gotta hang tight.

Advice i can give you from fighting my fair share of rogues is this: dont give up and dont stop moving. You wont really be able to get off some FB's like you can against a warrior because they can do all of these (and maybe more) to break your snares/novas:

Vanish
Sprint
Cloak of Shadows
Escape artist (if they are gnome)
Shadowstep (if specced right will get them behind you)
Then their Cold snap equivalent that escapes me to give them all of these back (or at least some of them back).

So figure at least 6 ways to break out and get next to you not including if u get cripple poisen for 70% reduction to speed that you cant get rid of unless you IB (or escape artist), not fun. You need to just pop your pet, run around and throw out fire blasts and lances. Use your pet nova to get crits on ice lance and dont even worry about frostbolts.

Its not easy but i would say ice block through cloak of shadows if you cant figure out another way, i usually do that, get away from em and cold snap so i have another IB in 30 seconds.
#3 Feb 17 2008 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
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3,761 posts
Theres lots of helpful threads here on PVP, I'd read all the PVP related posts on the first few pages, watch a bunch of mage videos on stage6, warcraftmovies and youtube, and just plain old practice.
#4 Feb 17 2008 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
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70 posts
^^^All these things. Also there is one sure way to become more adept at fighting one on one.

Duel. Duel. Duel.

see someone with better gear than you? duel them.

see someone who's a class you have trouble with? duel them.

get beat by someone in a duel you didn't expect to? reduel them

IMO one of the best ways to learn the basics of the when to do what and why of pvp.

and to touch on mage v rogue pvp, you should start thinking about it in 2 stages. At the start of the fight hes gonna have all their snare braking skills and its your job to make them systematically burn them all while doing your best to stay alive. Then, once you have made them burn their CDs, its time to sheep/nova and slaughter them.

Edited, Feb 17th 2008 4:53pm by Gohanian
#5 Feb 18 2008 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/class.html?wclass=7;mid=1202453516127555453;num=14;page=1


Still updating it. Any requests pm me or post on the thread. We'll get you taken care of :D
#6 Feb 18 2008 at 9:41 AM Rating: Decent
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128 posts
Also, try going to WCM and checkin out I suck at Dueling/PVP series's they will help you, i know they REALLY helped me.
#7 Feb 18 2008 at 12:38 PM Rating: Decent
Thanks for replying and thanks for the links to the guide+the video, this gave me quite some help in pvp'ing again. Also just to add, are those WOtlk talents really true Loopie?
#8 Feb 19 2008 at 8:05 AM Rating: Good
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428 posts
I hesitate to give detailed PvP advice b/c after watching a number of mage PvP videos, I realize I'm mediocre at best. Also, there are way too many contingencies in PvP (which of course is what makes it so fun/challenging/frustrating_as_hell).

Many people pooh-pooh dueling b/c it "means nothing" in the greater context of WoW PvP (which is correct), but I agree with above regarding what it can teach you about basic class mechanics. It won't teach you how to win in Arena and it won't teach you how to take the Mage Tower in EotS undermanned, but it will show you how other classes deal with your abilities and when to use your own abilities to counter theirs.

One tiny bit of advice: turn on scrolling combat text in your Interface menu (if you haven't already). Lots of good info there. If nothing else, you will know unequivocably whether that Warrior just Charged or Intercepted you. And of course you know what you should never, ever do if it's a Charge right? Right???
#9 Feb 19 2008 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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128 posts
Lol, uh not really but i hope they will be they look pretty good...:D
#10 Feb 19 2008 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
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91 posts
I'd also suggest maybe dealing with pvp on a smaller scale than AV to get you going. Perhaps Arathi Basin? It only takes 20-25 minutes to run one game, and you have both attacking and defending that can be done. Plus, you're not getting ganked by 40 opponents at once, it's more like 3 to 6 at a time.
#11 Feb 19 2008 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
Most mage pvp videos are pretty unimpressive IMO. 3v1 ing people with that poor gear is not hard in full merciless - I know because I've done it, and I am not the golden god of mage pvp (not quite, anyway).

But yeah, is suggst watching PvP movies and duelling until you consider your skillz sufficent to pay the billz.
#12 Feb 20 2008 at 6:06 AM Rating: Good
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1,262 posts
Also... you might want to consider knowing how those other classes work. I leveled a rogue to learn how/why/what they do, so I could beat them on my mage. Now, I can beat them from time to time and am not a free HK.

Also, with AV... stick with the groups. ;-)

If you really want to get better at a mage, play the more individual BGs, like WSG, AB, and EOTS. Also, remember that being a mage means you sometimes die, but you die slowing the enemy down (e.g. in wsg). Also, remember that your spec is huge. 17/0/44 is a great spec for many reasons... as is 2/0/59. Know your own spells/specs and play with them a lot.

HAVE FUN.
#13 Feb 20 2008 at 7:21 AM Rating: Decent
I was going to post a similar plea/rant but Seguris thankfully beat me to it. Mine is unfortunately closer to a whiny rant having been repeatedly buggered in AV.

I have played a bit of BG through the levels and I now find myself puzzled. I used to be able to beat more everyone in a 1v1 fight. I find that locks, rogues, and even hunters now just have their way with me. Warriors frequently hit me for 3k to 4k at pop. Rogue stuns blind, etc. seem to work from a long way off. (What is with that btw?) I especially love being dead before the cheapshot wears off. As for hunters I suspect the next patch will include a machine gun skill that Blizz should just call "I win". Their current highlights include a silencing shot with a range a whole lot farther than my CS, viper sting to take away my mana and a 1500 dmg autoshot clicking away every 2 seconds? Please… That is before factor in the permanently out pet that keeps spinning behind you and gnawing on your butt? It is no wonder about 40% of the players on my server are hunters. I won’t even get into locks. It is beyond frustrating. Does it EVER get better?

I am obviously a clueless n00b.

I have 50 resilience and 500 +dmg and only a 20% crit chance with frost. (as opposed to a 30% with fire). I don’t understand how kiting helps really. All the stuns, attacks etc don’t seem to be that range dependent. And Fire Blast is the only really useful spell in the ******** Ice lance just does not help at 200 damage a click. FN works maybe 75% of the time. Polymorph has challenges as well. Unless you sheep in conjunction with a FN I don’t see how you can get the thing off without losing somewhere between half and all your health.

I was a deep fire spec 0/48/3 and switched to deep frost thinking that would help me a bit in AV. Now I still die, albeit a tad more slowly, but I have done less damage in the process. With the exception of a once a day FB/IL/IL crit combo I don't really see the damage potential of frost. Yeah the elemental is helpful if it is out but if someone gets the jump on you….

I don’t even want to think about what the arena grind would be like? Who would pick a barely geared mage for a team? Is anyone else frustrated or do I just really stink? Is a skilled, s3 geared mage really able to take on these fights when they don’t get the first shot or should I think about another class (or game)?
#14 Feb 20 2008 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
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1,262 posts
Quote:
Rogue stuns blind, etc. seem to work from a long way off. (What is with that btw?)


I think the most telling thing in your whole message is this small sentence. If you don't understand what your enemy can do to you, how can you counter it? You need to either roll a rogue (and go gank some mages) or go study rogues (rolling a rogue is more fun... trust me). Also roll a hunter and play him for a while, and any other classes you're having a hard time with. First off, I got most of my pvp info from 1) knowing the other class (means I have played every class to about lvl 30 or so) at least a little bit. 2) Evertras' pvp videos. Watch them closely, and he'll tell you why they do what they do. 3) Go force yourself to pvp in the more personal BGs, WSG, AB, EotS, where you're more likely to get 1 on 1 with someone.

Face this fact: 1) Vs. locks, you will die a lot. 2) Vs. rogues, you will die a lot. Everyone else you have a better chance with, and you will have better odds knowing warlocks, especially as your gear gets better. Don't get too frustrated with it... I used to, but now I love PvP. I even leveled some of those toons I created just to figure out how another class works. ;-) Mages, when played well in PvP, can top the HK/Killing blow type boards when you have better gear and have learned how to play better. It's frustrating getting there, I know... but my mage has 13K honor kills now, and when I'm bored, I still go back to him and destroy some allies (like those no-good-won't-help-halaa-to-save-their-life-kind).

Oh... and remember that every class has some one they have a hard time with. My lock gets creamed by rogues if they get the jump on me (no blink to get out of CS with). My rogue is pretty good for a guaranteed kill, but once I'm visible, I'm a 'focus target'. People don't like enemy rogues... they die a lot.

Edit: Added the URL.

Edited, Feb 20th 2008 10:15am by ktangent
#15 Feb 20 2008 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
Thanks for the very constructive and helpful post. I have a wee lock but got sidetracked with my mage. I will get back to playing with him and some other alts to learn more of the mechanics.
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